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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/13/2010 5:03:30 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You could just see that, couldn't you? If a bunch of Hispanic kids turned up at school on the 4th wearing mexican flags and singing la cucaracha they wouldn't get sent home, they'd get lynched.


Would they get lynched if they did that in a Mexican school?

Oh and I don't remember anyone singing, what song was it again?


< Message edited by thishereboi -- 5/13/2010 5:04:13 PM >


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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/13/2010 5:05:57 PM   
SohCahToa


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Technically that's now described as 'Amexican'

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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/13/2010 6:41:33 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

The rule I highlighted that you underlined still doesn't apply. The rule's intent was that the flag itself not be used as a garment. As with many thing set forth by our forefathers, the flag rule couldn't and didn't foresee that people would be able to draw or imprint images on clothing as it wasn't possible at the time.



We have codes for how the flag should be treated. I do not mean that they are criminal codes, but there are codes about the proper ways to treat a flag. There are organizations that exist to educate people how they should treat the flag. Now I am not stating that people should not wear the flag as a fashion statement... but when people do that as a show of their patriotism my thought is that they are an ignorant asshole. I am allowed opinions... I am allowed to state my opinions, just like they are allowed to desecrate the flag they are waving,... free country!

I noticed how you have no links to show how things have "changed"...


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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/13/2010 7:56:00 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
We have codes for how the flag should be treated.


Yes, and the code is for the flag itself, not an imprint of same.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
but when people do that as a show of their patriotism my thought is that they are an ignorant asshole. I am allowed opinions...


Everyone is, even when wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I noticed how you have no links to show how things have "changed"...


Links to what now? I need a link to show that the world of 2010 has changed from the world of 1776? Seriously?


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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/13/2010 8:00:56 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
We have codes for how the flag should be treated.


Yes, and the code is for the flag itself, not an imprint of same.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
but when people do that as a show of their patriotism my thought is that they are an ignorant asshole. I am allowed opinions...


Everyone is, even when wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I noticed how you have no links to show how things have "changed"...


Links to what now? I need a link to show that the world of 2010 has changed from the world of 1776? Seriously?



Even a cursory examination of google will illustrate that the standards of how to treat the flag have not changed, if everyone jumped off a bridge, would you do it?

It is ironic to me that I have more respect for the flag than most so-called patriots do. I do not wear it as a fashion statement. I would not allow the flag to touch the ground, I would not drape myself in it, and I would not do this with it either'







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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/13/2010 9:31:41 PM   
tazzygirl


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Wearing a representation of the flag is different than cutting up an actual flag to wear. No where did anyone state they were dragging flags over the ground.

I also noticed you ignored the post about the half mexican, half white student. You call these students snot nose brats... yet i see nothing from you about the mexican students who skipped school the next day to protest the "disrespect" they were shown.

By the way, the vice principal who sent the boys home is named Miguel Rodriguez. The school district later said the incident was extremely unfortunate and that they were submitting to an "investigation".

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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 3:48:02 AM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Even a cursory examination of google will illustrate that the standards of how to treat the flag have not changed,


Are you still using hooked on phonics? It ain't workin' for you.

No one mistreated a flag. The standards you love to quote were written long, LONG ago. They address use of THE flag. They do not specifically state you can't have a t-shirt printed with an image of the flag. They do not, because t-shirts with printed logos did not exist back then.

No, you can't cut up a flag to make a shirt, you can't cut up a flag for any piece of clothing. However, you *can* have clothing printed with the image of the flag.


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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 5:03:24 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SohCahToa

Someone better let Apollo Creed know that he is wearing illegal shorts.

and what about that America needs you bloke with the flag themed top hat?




Not a real hat as he was just a painting (then later a comics character).

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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 6:58:22 AM   
thishereboi


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You still haven't said which side the american/mexican boy was against? Was the racist piece of shit mentioned below hating the americans or the mexicans?

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My point, and I will reiterate it, is if your wearing the flag as a fashion statement just to stick it to some Mexicans that you hate, well people like me are going to point out that you're a fucking little hypocritical racist piece of shit...



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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 7:34:13 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

I also noticed you ignored the post about the half mexican, half white student. You call these students snot nose brats... yet i see nothing from you about the mexican students who skipped school the next day to protest the "disrespect" they were shown.


I did not read anything about that. I read a few stories I searched myself. The original post was to a video that is a dead link... why should I respond to something that isn't in evidence as far as I am concerned....

As far as the rest, I have my opinion. I am allowed to it.

It is funny how you are stomping around going on and on and on about justifying whatever it is you are justifying... and all I keep saying is the same thing. I don't wear the American flag, I do not buy cheaply made shit from China with the American flag on it.I find it amusing when people do that thinking that it makes them seem patriotic. I find it racist when people wear stuff to denigrate another person's holiday.. and to be honest, I do not care if one Mexican kid did that... (I am part American Indian, but I do not claim to be "Indian" because I wasn't raised Indian and most of my family appears white, so if I did racist crap towards Indians I could hardly harken back to my Cherokee and Ogallala ancestors to justify myself.

I have a class with a gal, she looks very European, her family on one side is from Mexico, she doesn't know them. She was raised by her white mother.... tell me, does she have the right to be racist because she is Mexican American/European American?


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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 7:42:45 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

a bunch of snot nosed racist brats


One of those snot nosed racist brats was 1/2 american 1/2 mexican. So tell me, which side does he hate?



I would think that person isn't "half" anything, they are Mexican American and European American.... we do not call people half breeds anymore.

Even though you haven't shown me a link, I will address this


If I go around hating on white people is it ok because I am white?


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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 7:44:17 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

I did not read anything about that. I read a few stories I searched myself. The original post was to a video that is a dead link... why should I respond to something that isn't in evidence as far as I am concerned...


So you had no clue who these kids were when you called them " a fucking little hypocritical racist piece of shit..."

That's just so openminded of you.


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My point, and I will reiterate it, is if your wearing the flag as a fashion statement just to stick it to some Mexicans that you hate, well people like me are going to point out that you're a fucking little hypocritical racist piece of shit...


quote:

I have a class with a gal, she looks very European, her family on one side is from Mexico, she doesn't know them. She was raised by her white mother.... tell me, does she have the right to be racist because she is Mexican American/European American?


If you had read up on this, you would know that the one student was living with his mexican father and his mexican mother. I would ask which one he hated, but you have already admitted you didn't know what you were talking about.


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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 7:45:11 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You could just see that, couldn't you? If a bunch of Hispanic kids turned up at school on the 4th wearing mexican flags and singing la cucaracha they wouldn't get sent home, they'd get lynched.


Would they get lynched if they did that in a Mexican school?

Oh and I don't remember anyone singing, what song was it again?


The couple of twats with the t shirts did this in a school that was mostly hispanics, so any hypothetical Mexican idiots would have to do the same in a school that was mostly anglos. La Cucaracha is a Mexican song about dope and revolution. You've probably heard it.

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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 7:55:28 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

I did not read anything about that. I read a few stories I searched myself. The original post was to a video that is a dead link... why should I respond to something that isn't in evidence as far as I am concerned...


So you had no clue who these kids were when you called them " a fucking little hypocritical racist piece of shit..."

That's just so openminded of you.


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My point, and I will reiterate it, is if your wearing the flag as a fashion statement just to stick it to some Mexicans that you hate, well people like me are going to point out that you're a fucking little hypocritical racist piece of shit...


quote:

I have a class with a gal, she looks very European, her family on one side is from Mexico, she doesn't know them. She was raised by her white mother.... tell me, does she have the right to be racist because she is Mexican American/European American?


If you had read up on this, you would know that the one student was living with his mexican father and his mexican mother. I would ask which one he hated, but you have already admitted you didn't know what you were talking about.



Answered this, even if you do not want to acknowledge the reply..

And you never answered my question... how entertaining


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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 8:19:02 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Even a cursory examination of google will illustrate that the standards of how to treat the flag have not changed,


Are you still using hooked on phonics? It ain't workin' for you.

No one mistreated a flag. The standards you love to quote were written long, LONG ago. They address use of THE flag. They do not specifically state you can't have a t-shirt printed with an image of the flag. They do not, because t-shirts with printed logos did not exist back then.

No, you can't cut up a flag to make a shirt, you can't cut up a flag for any piece of clothing. However, you *can* have clothing printed with the image of the flag.




I provide links, you provide nothing....

Here is the thing, I think most people's attitudes towards a lot of stuff has changed, including toward the American flag. I do not care to be honest with you. Most people are uneducated about this subject, which is nothing new, most people can't name all 10 of the Bill of Rights, either... and I have heard arguments that the Constitution is outdated too... I care more about the Constitution than the flag anyways

I can't tell you how many people disrespect the flag, most people disrespect the flag. Most people do it casually, though, they aren't trying to "show respect" for the flag when they are actively disrespecting it.

When you wear a shirt emblazoned with the flag as a surrogate for the flag, that is disrespectful according to the code. I did not make the code. The code has not been revised. The code is still followed by the government and the military.

Now Americans tend to love their cheaply made shit with the American flag on it, I get that. I do not want to stop them from enjoying their flag crap. There are those, the few educated on the subject, that will point out that wearing the American flag as a surrogate for the real thing is disrespectful... it is not patriotic. It will never be patriotic until they change the code. Other countries do not have the rules that we do surrounding the flag, perhaps you would want to be on the forefront of changing the code that the military and the courts adhere to, instead of bashing me for knowing about it


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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 9:09:46 AM   
tazzygirl


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LOL

Chanel is now cheaply made goods.

Eugene Volokh, a professor of law at the University of California-Los Angeles, said the students are protected under California Education Code 48950, which prohibits schools from enforcing a rule subjecting a high school student to disciplinary sanctions solely on the basis of conduct, that when engaged outside of campus, is protected by the First Amendment.

If the school could point to previous incidents sparked by students who wore garments with American flags, they could argue that the flag is likely to lead to "substantial disruption," Volokh said.

"If, for example, there had been fights over similar things at past events, if there had been specific threats made," he said. "But if [school officials] just say, 'Well, we think it might be offensive to people,' that's generally speaking not enough."

Volokh said the students and their parents likely have a winning case on their hands if they decide to take the matter to court.

"Oh yes, it's almost open and shut," he said.

Lis Wiehl, a former federal prosecutor and a Fox News legal analyst, said the incident appears to a "blatant" violation of the students' First Amendment right to free speech. She noted that inciting violence is an exception to a First Amendment legal defense, but Wiehl said she saw no indications that the students provoked anyone.

"Unless I'm missing something, this seems like a blatant violation of the First Amendment," said Wiehl, adding that uniforms are not required at the public school. "And they're wearing, of all horrific things, the American flag."


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/california-students-sent-home-wearing-flags-cinco-mayo/

Despite your protests that no one respects the flag.. which is a bunch of bullshit... these students are protected under freedom of speech.

read the above and then rethink your position. just because they are on a campus does not mean they cannot wear the flags as they did.

In a statement released Thursday, Morgan Hill Unified School District Superintendent Wesley Smith characterized the incident as "extremely unfortunate" and said the matter is under investigation.

"The Morgan Hill Unified School District does not prohibit nor do we discourage wearing patriotic clothing," Smith's statement read. "The incident on May 5 at Live Oak High School is extremely unfortunate. While campus safety is our primary concern and administrators made decisions yesterday in an attempt to ensure campus safety, students should not, and will not, be disciplined for wearing patriotic clothing. This matter is under investigation and appropriate action will be taken."


as far as them inciting violence by wearing such clothing on cinco de mayo .... one of the brats actually has four such shirts, according to his mother, and wears them often.

Dariano said her son has at least four T-shirts with American flags that he wears often and did not try to cause any conflict at school.

and this just makes me shake my head...

Freshman Laura Ponce, who had a Mexican flag painted on her face and chest, told the Morgan Hill Times that Cinco de Mayo is the "only day" Mexican-American students can show their national pride.

"There was a lot of drama going on today," Ponce told the newspaper.


Why is this the only day? Its not even a national holiday for them. Are they suggesting they are denied their right to wear such articles as t-shirts, belts, carry bookbags with the mexican flag upon them? According to the school policy they are not.

you can continue to pout all you want julia. Your position on wearing the clothes is wrong, even by the school's own policy. And i do hope the parents sue. Seems according to the experts they will win. No previous pattern of violence has been documented. with only a few days left in the school year, im sure the district is hoping the summer will take the sting out of this issue. Somehow, i dont see that happening.

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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 10:00:04 AM   
juliaoceania


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Any other reports on this that do not include Fox legal analysts?  I find it amusing that Fox is the only news outlet banging the drum here..


I imagine that school officials are backtracking... I would imagine that the ACLU will get involved if the First Amendment rights of these students was infringed. I will also say that i applaud the principal for attempting to keep conflict down in the school.

Oh, btw, I am not "pouting"... I am laughing at people who are so militant about their rights to disrespect the flag they wave around like they have an idea of what the fuck they are doing....it is immensely entertaining to me. It reminds me of all the holey flags I saw mounted after 911, I think people who fly tattered flags, wear flag emblazoned clothing, etc.. are just too freaking amusing to me


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RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 3:16:03 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I provide links, you provide nothing....


You provide lack of reading comprehension, I provide intelligence.

I don't need a "link" to demonstrate how the world has changed in the last 200 plus years. If you disagree that the world has changed....do you think they had jets and space flight in 1776?

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
When you wear a shirt emblazoned with the flag as a surrogate for the flag, that is disrespectful according to the code. I did not make the code. The code has not been revised.


The code never covered t-shirts. T-shirts were not invented when the code was written, nor was the ability to put logos on said t-shirts.

Are you really this dense or are you just pretending?


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Profile   Post #: 158
RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 8:22:55 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

a bunch of snot nosed racist brats


One of those snot nosed racist brats was 1/2 american 1/2 mexican. So tell me, which side does he hate?



I would think that person isn't "half" anything, they are Mexican American and European American.... we do not call people half breeds anymore.

I didn't call him a half breed, I pointed out that his mother was american and his father was mexican.

Even though you haven't shown me a link, I will address this
The story was in the OP, the kid was on tv


If I go around hating on white people is it ok because I am white?
Hate is wrong. Doesn't matter where it comes from



quote:

Answered this, even if you do not want to acknowledge the reply..

And you never answered my question... how entertaining


No I didn't. I finished my last post and left.


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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: American students sent home for wearing American flags - 5/14/2010 8:24:45 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You could just see that, couldn't you? If a bunch of Hispanic kids turned up at school on the 4th wearing mexican flags and singing la cucaracha they wouldn't get sent home, they'd get lynched.


Would they get lynched if they did that in a Mexican school?

Oh and I don't remember anyone singing, what song was it again?


The couple of twats with the t shirts did this in a school that was mostly hispanics, so any hypothetical Mexican idiots would have to do the same in a school that was mostly anglos. La Cucaracha is a Mexican song about dope and revolution. You've probably heard it.


If you change the nationality of the kids and the flag, then you have to change the country the school is in. Other wise it's not a good comparison. Nice try at spinning it around though.


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