RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (Full Version)

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Marini -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 8:34:41 PM)

lol, you love it when I talk harshly to you.
The posts I have started to read from you these days tend to be very harsh.
They hurt my eyes!
my eyes! my eyes!


Do you enjoy beating people over the head around here?
In your heart and soul, do you really feel those men were not pirates? 




thompsonx -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 8:37:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

lol, you love it when I talk harshly to you.

Diga me por favor






thompsonx -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 8:38:38 PM)

quote:

Do you enjoy beating people over the head around here?



Solomente los cabrones




thompsonx -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 8:44:26 PM)

quote:

In your heart and soul, do you really feel those men were not pirates?


I asked only if anyone knew why these particular pirates were pirates?
So far there has only been one response.
Everyone else, including you seem to be of the opinion that it makes no difference why.
Just as king george said about our founders like washington,adams and jefferson.




Marini -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 8:45:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

FR:
I find it most interesting that the so called libs join the jingos on this thread.
Perhaps a little google as to why the "pirates" are pirates?



I am not sure I want to know what "jingos" are.

For the record, what do you consider yourself thompsonX?????? 
Liberal? Socialist? Communist? In a category all by yourself? 




thompsonx -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 8:52:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

FR:
I find it most interesting that the so called libs join the jingos on this thread.
Perhaps a little google as to why the "pirates" are pirates?



I am not sure I want to know what "jingos" are.

nationalistic,chest thumping, war mongers.

For the record, what do you consider yourself thompsonX?????? 
Liberal? Socialist? Communist? In a category all by yourself? 


Hedonist





TheHeretic -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 8:53:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini



I am not sure I want to know what "jingos" are.





Shorthand for jingoists, I think, Mia.




thompsonx -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 8:55:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini



I am not sure I want to know what "jingos" are.





Shorthand for jingoists, I think, Mia.



Actually it is the plural of jingo.




Marini -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 8:56:25 PM)

Thanks for the answer, and avoiding the question.
No worries,  I have a category that suits you. [sm=moon.gif]




TheHeretic -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 9:05:23 PM)

Hell with him




thompsonx -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 9:06:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Thanks for the answer, and avoiding the question.
No worries,  I have a category that suits you. [sm=moon.gif]



I have always appreciated the class and charm with which you conduct yourself on the boards.




thompsonx -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 9:08:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Hell with him


You Dick ...not so much.




TheHeretic -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 9:10:55 PM)

What an awful place it must be, inside your head.




Marini -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 9:17:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

What an awful place it must be, inside your head.


Thanks Rich, now I am thinking about that strange movie "Being John Malkovich".

Being John Malkovich - Malkovich Inside Malkovich - MOVIECLIPS.com

It would be interesting to be able to "go into" a few people's "heads", I think.
I am thinking it would take a toll on the person going "into the other person's mind/head" though.
**Waving to Rich from the other coast.**




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 9:22:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

more than 20 post since I ask why these particular pirates are pirates.
So far no one has had the energy or the desire to press a few keys to google.
I guess it is easier to just snuff them non white guys instead of asking them what the fuck they are pissed about.



It doesn't matter what they are pissed about. What difference does it make? I'm as familiar as you with their supposed justifications for kidnapping and murdering innocent people, but it has absolutely no relevance. The people they are victimizing have no responsibility for what happened to them and their country, so either these pirates are common criminals victimizing targets of opportunity or they are terrorists. There is no third option that I can see, and either way, they need to be dealt with.




thompsonx -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 10:10:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

more than 20 post since I ask why these particular pirates are pirates.
So far no one has had the energy or the desire to press a few keys to google.
I guess it is easier to just snuff them non white guys instead of asking them what the fuck they are pissed about.



It doesn't matter what they are pissed about. What difference does it make? I'm as familiar as you with their supposed justifications for kidnapping and murdering innocent people, but it has absolutely no relevance. The people they are victimizing have no responsibility for what happened to them and their country,


The russians who mutalated and murdered the family member of a terrorist(mentioned earlier in this thread) would be in the same catagory as the pirates?


so either these pirates are common criminals victimizing targets of opportunity or they are terrorists. There is no third option that I can see, and either way, they need to be dealt with.

I agree completely something must be done to deal with this...the question is what?
If we just keep killing them they will just keep comming back. Something the gunny taught me. Always leave your enemy an option...if not you will have to kill him and that is always more difficult than making him a prisoner...a man with nothing to loose is the most dangerous.
If someone burned down your house and raped and sodomized your family ...If you could not get to that person would you go after their assets,their family,their thirteenth cousin on their mother's side?







Caius -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 10:23:11 PM)

I'm as aware as anybody of how caustic thompsonx can be; my recent first and only exchange with him is a study in that.   However, that being said, I really don't see what is so unreasonable about his request that we try to contextualize the actions of these people.  The few who have bothered to respond to that call have only done so to reply with something along the liens of "It really doesn't matter, their actions are inexcusable and whatever punishment they receive just."  Well, I'm sorry, but like him, I feel that just doesn't cut it.  And I'm not saying either way here whether I am sympathetic to the idea of their particular circumstances as mitigating factors to their actions, nor whether the Russian response was prudent or justified.  These guys certainly aren't the first I'd go to bat for. What I'm saying is that complex problems require a complex analysis and that, more often than not, a "shoot them all and sort it out later" approach only digs all sides deeper.  

Putting the question of whether the Russian military was justified in these executions and what our personal gut reactions are to that question for the moment, what is the harm in stepping back a moment and trying to gain some perspective?   And for those who, like Panda, ask "What does it matter what their reasons were?", the reasons are multi-fold.  Aside from the fact that true empathy (a powerful tool in the human perceptive arsenal) does not proceed until you have exhaustively studied a person's motivations, the study itself might present to you better options for resolving the problem than "eye for an eye", however viscerally pleasing that approach may be to us in certain circumstances. It may, in rare cases, even cause you to consider that you've been on the wrong side of an issue.  The ability to re-evaluate our positions is the only thing which keeps us from becoming puppets to the increasing number of forces in the world that would prey on our emotions and deep-seated predispositions.  To make blanket statements that "the particulars couldn't possibly matter" isn't just irrational, it often amounts to willful ignorance for the sake of convenience (not meant as a dig at Panda, rather a general commentary on this position).

Now, if I can speak to the specifics of this case, and still putting aside moral considerations, there are legal concerns here.  Maritime law may be rather vague in terms of who has authority in such a circumstance, one thing this ambiguity does not do is grant states the right to summary executions.  The many human rights treaties to which most modern states belong supersede here and quite clearly prohibit such behaviour.  And thompson is right on another issue -- if we don't have principles when they are painfully inconvenient or even harmful to our cause, we don't have principles at all.  Where the law is not applied equally to all it ceases to be something that elevates man and that provides him with stability and meaning for his actions and becomes just another socio-political contrivance.





Elisabella -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 10:54:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I asked only if anyone knew why these particular pirates were pirates?
So far there has only been one response.
Everyone else, including you seem to be of the opinion that it makes no difference why.
Just as king george said about our founders like washington,adams and jefferson.



What difference do you think it would make?




thompsonx -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 11:01:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I asked only if anyone knew why these particular pirates were pirates?
So far there has only been one response.
Everyone else, including you seem to be of the opinion that it makes no difference why.
Just as king george said about our founders like washington,adams and jefferson.



What difference do you think it would make?



Something I have noticed in my short life.
No one likes to admit that they made a mistake about killing someone.




Elisabella -> RE: 10 Captured Somali pirates "found dead" by Russians (5/12/2010 11:05:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Something I have noticed in my short life.
No one likes to admit that they made a mistake about killing someone.



Why do you think it was a mistake to kill the pirates?

It seems like it would be fairly effective, but I can't say what the response will be.




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