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Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 2:09:12 AM   
RCdc


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Status: offline 		Roman Catholic schoolgirl labelled 'truant' for refusing to wear headscarf on mosque trip.

Link here.

quote:

Amy Owen, 14, and several of her friends at Ellesmere Port Catholic High School in Cheshire refused to go on the visit after being told that they had to conform to a Muslim dress code involving covering their heads and wearing long skirts or leggings.

A teacher then telephoned Miss Owen telling her that if her daughter did not go on the trip, organised by the Religious Education department, it would be marked down as an "unauthorised absence" even after she had refused to sign a parental consent form.

Although Miss Davies said the objection was for “religious reasons”, she admitted: I'm not a devout Catholic, I've never claimed to be but my daughter is a white, British Catholic girl - not a Muslim girl, therefore she is not adhering to a Muslim dress code."


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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 3:14:21 AM   
Elisabella


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Status: offline 		I can't imagine taking my religion so seriously that dressing to blend in to another culture would actually offend me...but I can definitely see being upset that I had to attend another religion's service.

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 3:19:56 AM   
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quote:

but I can definitely see being upset that I had to attend another religion's service.
Why? 

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 3:29:04 AM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

but I can definitely see being upset that I had to attend another religion's service.
Why? 


Think of it like a submissive being forced to worship a dominant that they barely knew and felt nothing for.

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 3:43:46 AM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		I have attended many religious services of various sects and denominations and never once felt the least upset, rather I saw it as a chance to learn and understand, and that includes the times I was forced to attend weekly Catholic mass in grade school (until they found out I was nominally Protestant...they freaked and made me and my brothers spend that time in the gym running laps, playing volleyball, etc.

There is nothing inherently evil in a different culture's religious service, and I think the girls in this case were being dickheads, they were making a fuss just to get attention in my opinion...I mean how difficult would it be to put a scarf over your head while you were in the mosque...I wouldn't fuss over wearing some sort of head covering were I to attend a service in a synagogue...its common courtesy, just like kneeling & standing and so on at a Christian service. I think people are just afraid to learn.

< Message edited by Arpig -- 5/13/2010 3:44:28 AM >

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 4:00:19 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

but I can definitely see being upset that I had to attend another religion's service.
Why? 


Think of it like a submissive being forced to worship a dominant that they barely knew and felt nothing for.


But Bella they aren't being forced to worship, noone is trying to convert them. Wow God forbid they experience a religious ceremony from another religion. All that's being asked of them is that they wear a hijab, just as they would if they were to visit a Musim country.


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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 4:07:39 AM   
sirsholly


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This was not a matter of the students being converted or forced to worship. It is a matter of observing and showing respect to a culture/religion that is different from their own.

In my opinion...the school made the right decision in not allowing her to attend.


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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 4:08:37 AM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

But Bella they aren't being forced to worship, noone is trying to convert them. Wow God forbid they experience a religious ceremony from another religion. All that's being asked of them is that they wear a hijab, just as they would if they were to visit a Musim country.



Theoretically, if their God did forbid it, would you still feel the same way?

They're not only being asked to wear a hijab, they're being asked to attend a mosque service. I feel religion is something personal, and I wouldn't want to tell anyone how seriously they should take their own, or anyone else's.

If she wanted to experience Islamic worship, she can go on her own, there are ways to learn about Islam without participating or watching a service like an anthropologist. The only thing you can learn from the service, that you can't learn from a textbook, is the religious experience.

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 4:14:38 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

But Bella they aren't being forced to worship, noone is trying to convert them. Wow God forbid they experience a religious ceremony from another religion. All that's being asked of them is that they wear a hijab, just as they would if they were to visit a Musim country.



Theoretically, if their God did forbid it, would you still feel the same way?

They're not only being asked to wear a hijab, they're being asked to attend a mosque service. I feel religion is something personal, and I wouldn't want to tell anyone how seriously they should take their own, or anyone else's.

If she wanted to experience Islamic worship, she can go on her own, there are ways to learn about Islam without participating or watching a service like an anthropologist. The only thing you can learn from the service, that you can't learn from a textbook, is the religious experience.


But their God doesn't forbid it or they wouldn't be going so that's a moot point. Yes religion is personal but the mother admits that she isn't a devout Catholic. I disagree, there is nothing quite like experiencing the service, reading about it is one thing, being there during one is quite another.


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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 4:17:57 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		I would agree with everyone's comments here if she refused to wear a scarf right before entering the mosque.  But that her parent refused to sign a parental consent form, and the kid was therefore ineligible for the trip.

I've seen instances before where a child could not make a field trip, and they found something else for the kid to do.  The school way overreacted.

That said, her mother's statement: “There are some parts of RE lessons that children who are Jehovah’s Witnesses don't have to attend because that’s part of their religion and the fact is Amy is Catholic and not a Muslim … This is an infringement of her human rights.”is ridiculous.  Catholic schools require kids dressing in uniforms.  To claim that the school does not have a right to require a headscarf is loony.

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 4:18:02 AM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
But their God doesn't forbid it or they wouldn't be going so that's a moot point. Yes religion is personal but the mother admits that she isn't a devout Catholic. I disagree, there is nothing quite like experiencing the service, reading about it is one thing, being there during one is quite another.



That's why I said theoretically

I agree with you that there's nothing quite like experiencing the service. The reason I think so is because only by attending the service can you feel the religious experience.

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 4:30:10 AM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

In my opinion...the school made the right decision in not allowing her to attend.



Did you even read the article? The school didn't stop her from attending, she refused to go and the school is counting that as truancy.

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 5:43:27 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

In my opinion...the school made the right decision in not allowing her to attend.



Did you even read the article? The school didn't stop her from attending, she refused to go and the school is counting that as truancy.


I believe it is incredibly important to understand how schools work here in the UK.
The fact is, that when your child is offered a place at the school, you end up signing the school charter.  This includes that any unauthorised absence from the school (in other words, when the school does not permit a student from taking a day off for a valid reason) then you acknowledge that this will be deemed an X on your childs attendence record.
So that said, the parents knew in advance that with holding their child based on their own decision would hold the child as a truant.  The parent themselves had already indicated that it was a personal choice and not one of religious intent as they are not Roman Catholic.  The school in question has a good reputation for it's religious tolerence and broad spectrum RE teaching - it's there in the prospectus.
So the parents are basically teaching the children that it's ok to do things you want, even when you have signed up to a contract that says they adhere to school policy.

the.dark.

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 6:23:47 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

In my opinion...the school made the right decision in not allowing her to attend.



Did you even read the article? The school didn't stop her from attending, she refused to go and the school is counting that as truancy.
oops...my bad.

My opinion stands, however. It is a lack of respect for the religion of others.


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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 6:27:59 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

her parent refused to sign a parental consent form
I admit to being confused this morning, so maybe i am reading this wrong. The parent did not sign...but the school would have taken the kid on the trip anyway?

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 6:43:31 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

The school didn't stop her from attending, she refused to go and the school is counting that as truancy.

And accurately.

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 6:52:27 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

In my opinion...the school made the right decision in not allowing her to attend.



Did you even read the article? The school didn't stop her from attending, she refused to go and the school is counting that as truancy.


Did you read the article? Where did it say they were attending a service? It only states they were visiting a mosque.

Some people.

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 6:54:48 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

her parent refused to sign a parental consent form
I admit to being confused this morning, so maybe i am reading this wrong. The parent did not sign...but the school would have taken the kid on the trip anyway?


Nope, that's the crux of it.  At the point that the parent refused to sign, the school advised that the student would be considered truant.

I've reconsidered my position.  The school decided that visiting different religions' services would be of value to the kids, and I agree with that.  Covering a female's hair is required under Islam, and should certainly be done inside a mosque during worship.  To refuse to do that is a dealbreaker, like munching on ham during a Jewish service.

To even consider not covering up is disrespectful towards Islam.  If the child is going to learn about other religions, a respect for them is top of the list, and I might consider reducing her grade because she obviously isn't learning and has no intention of doing so.


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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 6:56:24 AM   
domiguy


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Status: offline 		I enjoyed the part of the article where it alludes to the fact that Charlie Sheen is now posing as a fourth grader....Wow!!! Think that guy has some problems or what?

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RE: Roman Catholic Truants - 5/13/2010 7:02:54 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

her parent refused to sign a parental consent form
I admit to being confused this morning, so maybe i am reading this wrong. The parent did not sign...but the school would have taken the kid on the trip anyway?


Nope, that's the crux of it.  At the point that the parent refused to sign, the school advised that the student would be considered truant.

I've reconsidered my position.  The school decided that visiting different religions' services would be of value to the kids, and I agree with that.  Covering a female's hair is required under Islam, and should certainly be done inside a mosque during worship.  To refuse to do that is a dealbreaker, like munching on ham during a Jewish service.

To even consider not covering up is disrespectful towards Islam.  If the child is going to learn about other religions, a respect for them is top of the list, and I might consider reducing her grade because she obviously isn't learning and has no intention of doing so.



Yea, I agree. Here if you miss a field trip for whatever reason, they will often allow you to write a paper on the subject to make up for what you missed. Maybe that would have worked in this case. Maybe have her add a paragraph on why it is important to respect others.


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