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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 6:15:48 PM   
ropesubby39


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiterabbit0117

I coordinate one of the larger lifestyle groups in the area.  We have a monthly social/play party.  This has been going on for about a decade and the group has grown to an average attendance of 100 - 140 per month.  About 10 - 15% play the rest come to socialize.

We have about 5 - 15 new people show up every month.  Some become regular attendees, but most we never see again.  We know that coming through the door the first time is quite traumatic.  Some come and get as far as the parking lot 2 - 4 times before coming in.  Others report sitting in the lot  for over an hour before getting the nerve to come in.  Many of our regulars are quite good at identifying the newcomers (easily identified by the deer in the headlights look) and trying to make them feel welcome. 

Question - Why do most first timers never return?  They stay on our listserv and get the announcements, but we don't see them again.   Is real too scary?  Was their curiosity sated?   Did the subs not fall at their feet?  or ??



I can tell you from my first experience going to a club, online they were all nice and chatty, told them i was shy, but they said, we will welcome you, bla bla bla.  Once i got to the club, i was ignored.  It wasnt what they told me it would be.  I wasnt introduced at all, i approached other subbies, they snobbed me.  So for me it was the first and last time.

Most of the regulars were hanging out in groups, but you will always have things like that happening, even in the vanilla life.

Now i rather stay home and spend time alone with my Dom.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 6:26:38 PM   
SirKenin


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I did not join the group I attended because I lost interest in maintaining that part of My life.  I went a few months and then forgot the dates.  I enjoyed the interaction with like-minded individuals, but I found that I much preferred staying home.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 6:34:00 PM   
littlesarbonn


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I know for me that I attended two munches in my area before deciding not to attend anymore. I really felt like I was an outsider, and I was completely ignored during both attempts I made to integrate myself. I'm not reclusive, and I certainly tried, but I discovered I was dealing with cliques that didn't believe they were just that.

On the listserv site I talked about the problem and ended up getting massively flamed by the regulars in that group. One made a point of stating that it was all my fault, and perhaps I shouldn't come to their gatherings anyway. Because she was a popular member of the group, no one dared challenge her.

I remained part of the listserv and noticed this type of thing happen quite a few times with new people, UNLESS you happen to be a young attractive woman.

I'm sure your situation can be any number of things, but quite often the group itself isn't that open, even though most of the group believes the complete opposite. It doesn't take a lot to chase away a new member.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 6:45:11 PM   
KatyLied


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When I first joined a listserv, I did a brief introduction.  Within hours I had received a public message on the group, an offering for spanking!  Unfortuantely the guy who made the offer thought he was sending the message to my eyes only, but it ended up going to the entire group.  I sat back and ignored it, the regulars flamed his ass.  The internet is such fun.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 7:02:42 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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First off let me say I have not attended a "lifestyle" meeting of any kind.I have made a mild attempt to do so by going to the site recommended by others here to find out when and where meets are happening in my area..So far no luck I keep getting the maelor demon coming back to me.Secondly, every Dom I have met and I have asked if they were attendees of the BDSM community has told me that the few times they had gone they had found it to be either boring or below par of the standards that they wished.Thirdly, I find it rather daunting to attend alone, or to run into such stated cliques one hears of,or to run across Doms on the hunt so to speak and a submissive alone I feel is like fresh meat calling.I do encourage many on these forums to attend functions in their area.But I have found it difficult to take my own advice..I am attempting to eventually suck it up and go for it.If I can find them..(grin)....be well...Tempting

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 7:13:52 PM   
windchymes


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Because to the seasoned members who feel comfy and secure with their group, outsiders are not always made to feel the most welcome.  Sometimes you have to prove that you're not a "wannabe", God forbid, that dared to show up, and most people, especially those new to the game, just aren't that bold.

Think about how in here even, newcomers are looked down upon, scorned, and then judged not to be "true" whatevers.  Potential members could have come to the door and inadvertently asked the wrong question or not followed that particular group's protocol, and we all know how that endears a newbie to the group.  It's hard enough with the anonymity online.  Much much harder to do face-to-face.

< Message edited by windchymes -- 4/7/2006 7:18:44 PM >


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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 7:30:14 PM   
sweetbbwsub31


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It is my opinion that a lot of people wish to scene in private. i was also one of those scared stiff newbies when i went to my first munch. i still haven't gotten the nerve to go to a club and i REALLY want to. Taking the fantacy to reality is a big step. A lot of people wish to stay in the closet for fear of losing their professional reputation. My theory is if they are at a club or on a site like this they are interested in the lifestyle to some extent as well. From a female perspective, speaking as an unowned sub, i don't feel safe going to a club unless i am with someone i know and trust. i guess everyone handles it differently.
 

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 7:33:00 PM   
slaveladyj


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I'm simply to shy to go to one of these meetings, but with luck I'll get over this in time.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 7:47:23 PM   
carolsea


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I don't know where you folks are that have posted on this thread, but there's a bdsm lifestyle group in Greensboro that has been there for several years, lost a lot of people because of the kind of things you are describing, but now there's a new board, and most of the attendees ARE new people.  We do everything we can to make new people feel welcome and a part of things.  No one has been in the group long enough, now, except for a handful, to shun newbies.  Those of us who have been there for awhile and are running things talk invidually to the new folks after the educational portion of the meeting.  We contact each of them during the social to see if anyone would like to play or try something or learn something.

They seem to have a great time, when we asked what brought them to the group, they say education.  They appear to be interested in what is going on and interested in future happenings.  But very few come back.  We have a yahoogroup where we post comments and questions and try to get feedback from people, and they won't even reply privately.

It's a common problem in the groups that I know of in the area.  My feeling is that people don't care about any of the important stuff, the training and skills and relationship information and discussion.  They just want to play.  We have play parties, but that's not our main focus, and there are other places for that.

We've offered a larger scale multiple workshop event with hotel facilities for staying over, asked on the yahoogroup for any interest, and the only people who have responded are the same ones who always attend, and there's not enough of them/us to pull this thing off.

We're so tired.  We have 2 board members when we should have 5.  There's a lot of work to be done, and we just can't do it all.  We can get a few people to help with the small stuff, though always the same few people, but no one wants to commit the time to help with the other stuff that needs to be done to keep a group like this running smoothly.

Whew, I feel better getting that off my chest!
CarolSea

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 8:05:28 PM   
champagnewishes


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I have no idea why your repeat attendance drops after the first visit.  So i ask myself what would make me not return a second time.  And given the fact that i would be attending by myself, there could be a number of reasons such as those that have already been mentioned.

What would get me to return would be based on how my first experience went.  I would greatly appreciate a newcomer introduction period (even if it were simply 15 minutes or so) where newcomers were informed of what to expect during the night, any protocol that might be specific to the group, etc.  I would also find it very inviting to be assigned someone from a welcome commitee to be a "B/buddy" for part of the evening...to show me around, introduce me to other's etc.  No, i don't need a babysitter, but a friendly face that i know i can ask questions of or who can intercede during an uncomfortable moment sure makes a difference.



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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 8:23:13 PM   
Tikkiee


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I can not speak for others, but I know a few submissives who were so overwhelmed the first time they came to a munch or an event that they became scared. We try to go out of our way with our group to make sure that the newcomers are made at ease, though sometimes it just does not work.
Other reasons are that the newcomers just can not make the switch from fantasy/dreams to that of reality.
And still other reasons are that they just don't feel comfortable in a group setting no matter how much you try to make them welcome.
 
Everyone is different and has different ideas of how they want to live this part of their life.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 8:52:32 PM   
Alumbrado


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Some of the comments here seem to resonate with the idea that people went to a club/munch/play party, and were disappointed to find that the people there acted like...well, like people.

Perhaps it is the fantasy component of the lifestyle that leads people to think that when they find a group, their first experience will somehow be different than going to a cocktail party, fraternity rush, or Kiwanis luncheon. 


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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 10:32:50 PM   
Whiterabbit0117


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Thank all of you for the responses.  They give me some things to think about.   Since we provide directions to most of our first timers we may be able to do a follow up survey.



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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/8/2006 12:33:14 AM   
RavenMuse


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If I turned up to a particular group I wouldn't be one of the ones sitting in the lot for ... any time at all really.... I don't DO nervious in that fashion. But wether I returned after the first visit would very much depend on the feel of the group. Any hint that it was at all Cliqueish and I wouldn't be back, even if (as has happened quite a bit) the clique wanted to make me part of it.... I don't DO cliques and unfortunatly they are in abundance at all to many such groups.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/8/2006 1:26:04 AM   
CERCKL


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Any new setting is intimidating to a lot...myself, when I am in a group of new people, I am quiet, aside, not becuase of shyness but rather I like to observe, see the interaction, decide if I want to interact or not...my ex stated I came across as either intimidating or arrogant (who me?)...if they contact your groupf for directions, have you thought of having hosts of some sort? Being accompanied goes a long way for some.
I will be attending my first 'group' to see what it's like and because lotus is VERY interested...me, I couldn't give a damn, still, I was lucky to find someone who is involved with several groups who volunteered to be our hostess; it'll make lotus more comfortable and I can just be my normal, withdrawn, surly sarcastic self...cliques? They're always fun to mess with...
C


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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/8/2006 1:48:59 AM   
carolsea


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Yeah, we do that.  We have a newcomers' meeting beforehand and call it "orientation".  I'm the one most of them have corresponded with ahead of time, so they feel like they know me when I say hello and tell them my name.

I don't know what the problem is, but it's very frustrating for some of us!

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/8/2006 5:26:02 AM   
EvilGeoff


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Hey carol!!!!  {{{{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Good to see you here!

YIK,
- Geoff

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/8/2006 5:39:34 AM   
ScooterTrash


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LAM & I rarely agree on anything, but he hit the nail on the head with this one
quote:

Because they're fucking boring, frankly.  You just sit around at some restaurant, talking about 1950's songs or God knows what--or worse, you start gossiping about other people in the life and refer to them coyly by their internet screen names.  The people are real, fair enough, but they tend not to be looking for the same thing I am. They tend to be the kind of people who think "safe, sane, consensual" is the answer to the world's problems.  (I also tend to get the impression that they've all fucked each other at some point, but maybe I am just projecting my own prejudices.) 
RavenMuse also hit the target with
quote:

Any hint that it was at all Cliqueish and I wouldn't be back, even if (as has happened quite a bit) the clique wanted to make me part of it.... I don't DO cliques and unfortunatly they are in abundance at all to many such groups.
I've been to many munches and sloshes and belong to a group now. We attend occasionally, but like LAM said, for the most part they are simply boring. In one area where we used to attend, if you were an outsider, you were made to feel like just that, so attending is one thing, belonging is another. We did finally find a decent group, but it's not a big deal if we go regularly. The group as a whole is fine, and it is not a play party, it really is a munch and is held in a public place. I don't have an issue with it being in public, I couldn't care less what the "nillas" think. BUT for someone more timid, I have witnessed what you speak of, they show up once, never to be heard from again. I always looked at it like shopping at goodwill, if they see you there..guess what, they are there too.
 
Several people have posted on what may be the biggest problem with retaining newbies...the fact that it's real. This very well might be the biggest issue. A sub friend of mine up north, told me of an instance where they had a new face drift in one night, sit for a while and listen to the conversations and even tried to join in when they were talking about spankings...saying something like "yeah, isn't that fun when you tell them you are using a paddle or whatever on them and they type a reply such as ouch, or awww, etc.". I guess they looked at him oddly and continued their conversation, after a bit of time he jumped up with an astonished look on his face and exclaimed "OMG you people do this for real, not online?...you people are crazy" and he bolted out of the door. So...hmmm, maybe reality is just a bit much for some to handle.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/8/2006 7:42:19 AM   
feylin


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Good morning:

I am a very shy person until I get to know people so actually attending a munch was a true test for me. The first time I attended one I was wound tight with nerves and excitement. There was a contact person who met me before we walked into the restaurant and kindly made introductions to the group. Being the new person, I knew they would already have established relationships with each other so I felt the need to garner as much information as I could by reading the message board and starting an IM chat with another submissive whose messages I admired.

That part worked out. When someone was introduced I almost always had a basic idea of who they were and what they were into. (It was not a very large group and I waited a couple of months before actually attending a munch.) After the dinner, when we moved to the bar to play some pool and have a drink, I was able to have a great face-to-face conversation with the submissive I had chatted online with a few times. That conversation was occasionally interrupted by my initial greeter who checked in with a look or a comment to make sure I was feeling comfortable. Very sweet of him, I thought, and his attention to my comfort continued throughout the night when most of the group -- myself included -- moved on to a play party.

In hindsight, the play party was too much too soon for me. Everyone treated me kindly but I was too nervous to engage in conversation and some of what I was seeing startled me. Definitely had that deer-in-the-headlights look about me and experienced that slow, sinking feeling that I was making a complete ass out of myself by being one of those people who just stares and does not talk. <laughs> Quite a sight.

At first, I wanted to blame them for being clique-ish but came around from that by realizing it was only natural for this group, who obviously knew each other personally for some time, to have topics that were near and dear and pertained only to them. I could not expect to have that same familiar connection with people I had just met...especially when I was being so shy.

Playing, for me, was completely out of the question (I had just met these people!) and my being invited along was probably unfair to them as well, but we all have to start somewhere and I tried to be as unobtrusive as possible. Despite the fact that I, no doubt, made a weak first impression, I was able to take away some valuable lessons from this experience:

Doing my homework paid off and trying to make an online connection before attending the party helped.

Try to hold back on some of my eagerness to learn and experience new things because deep down I am truly unprepared to jump right in. My curiosity is bigger than my fears only to a certain point.

Do not focus on my perception of how other people are treating me, but be aware of how I am treating them. I walked into their unit brand new and inexperienced and no one, in my view, should be forced to make more than a common courtesy concession to the pale, quiet stranger. <grins>

A deeper revelation was that BDSM could be so much more than what I had fantasized or read about online.  I witnessed a rather physically demure but intensely emotional scene between a couple and was blown away by their connection. It was a palpable connection and I found myself moved by their public intimacy. (A bit of an oxymoron, I know, but I do not think they were aware of anyone else in the room in that moment.)

To tie this in to the initial post, I never went back. <laughs> It was too much too soon and they were a very experienced (see: frightening to the newbie) group. Lovely people, enjoyable to view and listen to, but too much for me. I needed baby steps.

Luckily, this initial burst of courage led to more attempts to meet people in the lifestyle. I joined two other groups that happened to meet much closer to my home and made a great connection at the next munch I attended. In both of these new groups someone (usually the host or hostess) was very attentive without being pushy. They let me move and interact without hovering but were a constant guardian with a glance and smile or drawing me into a conversation with a general question.

One thing was made clear at both new groups: if anyone bothered me in such a way that I became uncomfortable, I should let my host know immediately. (I failed to do this once at a club -- thinking that I had handled the situation if not correctly at least with finality -- and received a well-deserved lecture on the long ride home. The point being that because I was submissive and new to the arena (and a bit of a dork) my safety was a real concern and a responsibility they took seriously. They needed to be able to trust me just as much as I needed to trust them. Lesson learned -- the easy way, thankfully.)

Private versus public is a personal choice but I admit to being a bit disappointed when a dominant sparks an interest in me but states that he keeps this part of his life strictly private and behind closed doors. Its not that I am an exhibitionist, but I really enjoy meeting and talking and sharing with other people about this lifestyle. These forums allow for some of those deep questions and answers and the sharing of similar experiences but I have developed some great friendships and learned a great deal first hand by getting out there in spite of my social fears.

An example:  a couple of days after a play session (still only experienced the play side of things), I would break down and sob. Why? I was never depressed, always felt pretty good for a week or more after a lovely spanking or flogging or whatnot. I would just have a bit of out-of-the-blue uncontrollable sobbing and then feel much better afterwards. After one munch when a few of us hang around to chat, play pool, etc. this topic came up while I was chatting with a couple of the other submissives who happen to be in committed relationships with their dominants. They knew exactly what I was talking about and experienced the same or similar moments. This was something that had been bothering me.  It was so wonderful to talk about it with trusted friends and to feel reassured about what I considered an odd side effect.

That is one of the benefits of going to munches and developing friendships with people who will understand a bit more about your choices and reactions than friends and/or family who do not share the same interests/needs. Unlike the forums, you almost always get a good hug afterwards. <smiles>

Personally, I could never go to a club on my own. It has been mentioned that individuals may hang out in the parking lot trying to work up the nerve to walk into a place to attend a munch....for a club, I would not even make it into the parking lot. I would probably just keep driving around the block until I ran out of gas or regained my senses and went home. <laughs> I believe that unless you are a natural exhibitionist or an amazingly social extrovert, attendance at clubs requires a trustworthy friend or -- even more fun -- a group of trustworthy friends.

I do understand the nervousness and fears of attending a munch for the first time so if you should ever need someone to just listen while you try to expel some of that before attending one, please feel free to message me. At the very least I can be a willing listener and offer my often sage advice (see:  questionable) like, "You feel like throwing up? Gosh, I did, too, my first time. Tilt your head back and breathe deep, but take some mints and a toothbrush just in case" <grins>

Best wishes,
christine

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/8/2006 7:42:30 AM   
windchymes


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Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Some of the comments here seem to resonate with the idea that people went to a club/munch/play party, and were disappointed to find that the people there acted like...well, like people.

Perhaps it is the fantasy component of the lifestyle that leads people to think that when they find a group, their first experience will somehow be different than going to a cocktail party, fraternity rush, or Kiwanis luncheon. 




This is very true....there needs to be an awareness amongst the established personnel in the group that the new ones may need a little extra effort and attention on their part if they want their group to expand and flourish, because of the very nature of what they are there for-- BDSM.  It's intimidating at first.  It's a lot different than showing up for a new yoga class or book review night at the public library. 

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