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RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/26/2006 8:35:40 PM

Najakcharmer

Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
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Ahh yes. The "I know better than you because I'M THE DOMME" attitude. Charming. And I can see why you didn't bother going back. I wouldn't have either.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/27/2006 3:47:46 AM

cynthiamarie

Posts: 205
Joined: 3/11/2005
From: Bluefield, WV, USA
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Yessssss, I joined a munch group last year and have yet to attend a meeting. (That was half a year after joining TWO other groups that were supposed to meet in my town but have yet to hold any meeting whatsoever.)

Why haven't I? At first, I decided that there was no way on earth I'd go alone. It's an hour away, and an hour back...and the meeting is in a place where I'll likely be choking on smoke...and it only lasts one hour. I'd have to find a sitter, risk driving my 13 year old rattletrap car (yes, it was in the McDowell County flood up to it's windows 4 years ago too

), and then it would only last one teeny hour. Did I mention the one hour bit often enough? *laughs* During winter the roads were often nasty, and even within blocks of my home, I enjoyed several incidents with black ice. No accidents, thank goodness. I decided to skip winter for the obvious reasons, and skip summer because my car would overheat. *I miss my old motorcycle.*

Still, one time I planned to attend. Then someone at CM offered to bottom for me on that very same day so I had a change of plans. <Still laughing.>

Through reading the newsletters, I thought to try to make some friends within the group so I wrote to a few who were saying hello in the newsletter...and never got any answers back. That turned me off.

I want to watch the techniques of others, but at the same time I dislike not knowing anyone there...and I also am concerned that the views/values of the group will be different from my own and some jerk or the entire group will try to ram down my throat the rules of "real" D/s.

Friends in other states belong to huge clubs and I've been green with envy...one is a club in Atlanta. I believe there would be enough people in those that I could peacefully watch anything that interested me without worrying about fitting in. We've talked about my visiting.

These boards help bring up issues for me, before they've happened, and I appreciate being able to mull things over in advance. Reading lets me see issues from almost every possible side and how others have dealt with them...then I decide what feels right for me.

I have Warren's book, and a few others...and have spent so many hours online studying about safeties (and there could never be enough for us new ones)...but all the book learning can not tell you how beautiful things will smell, look, and sound in a scene, as well as unexpected things that make me laugh my butt off later. All of these have to be experienced, and I'm loving it all.

I'm not into heavy play, and don't know if I'll ever go there. I love floggers and light restraints. Some people irritate me by judging the level of "realness" by how much pain you can dish out or take. I couldn't enjoy attending a group that judged by those standards, and it's possible my first meeting would be my last, for that group.

I could live with D/s without any BDSM play...what I like will be icing on the cake, not the entire meal.

Maybe some of the newbies want to have already cut their baby teeth in r/t before joining groups...before others try to start programming us about what is real.

Something within my town would be more tempting, and if people within the group were encouraged to have small meetings throughout the month if they chose. I've a good sized back yard, and it would be fun to have some come over to practice on a target; using one on a human is a hard limit for me, but it would be great fun to admire someone else's skills and see how long it would take before I stopped wrapping... My teenager could even join in something as vanilla

as that...he's had a fascination with whips since preschool years, and has worn out over a dozen cheap leather ones I've bought him.

This would be good exercize as well, since I love to give light slow floggings for hours and usually my arm hurts so bad I can't sleep that night, and hurts for days afterward. *Yes, I can honestly tell the bottom that this is going to hurt me more than it hurts them, lol.* With regular targeted exercize, maybe I could prevent this somewhat.

I want real companionship and skills sharing and practical advice from any group I go to...not gossip, cliques, political discussions, nor any dollar tip night for someone who takes off her shirt to show her bewbies to everyone.

If I want to talk with others in the lifestyle and hear their opinions, I CAN find that online...(unless most of you are just figments of your or my own imagination)...and don't need the aggravation of driving through snow or rain or fog, and worrying if a traffic jam will make me 1/2 an hour late to a one hour munch. <Okay, I am jealous of those of you who have delightful munches that last 4 - 9 hours long. There, I admit it.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/27/2006 4:45:49 AM

darkslife

Posts: 43
Joined: 3/21/2004
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I rarely attend local meetings/play parties/dungeons. Not because I am less real or any of that nonsense, but because they BORE me.

Always the same topics, the same little cliques. BDSM is a part of my life, like my hair, my tv etc - but not the overall controlling aspect of it. Meaning I have little in common with the generally much older crowd that controls the local scene here.

I am a member of the local under 30s group, and several of them contact me offlist for information and what not, and I have no problem helping them out.

But of course, cos I dont like fetishwear and flogging/sharing my girl in public, I am less real :P

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/30/2006 10:09:43 PM

Whiterabbit0117

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Joined: 3/15/2006
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quote:

[i have a earnest question. Where does the idea come from that those of U/us who do not attend munches, spanking parties, dungeons, etc. are somehow "deprived" "uneducated" or "not real"?

candystripper /quote]

It comes as a reaction to the community that: learned their D/s in on line chat rooms, web sites, and fiction; have never seen "real" or have met one person who has told them what the "right way" is; or that considers the Beauty Books or "O" to be a guide. They may know the jargon, but not the mores or real world practices of the community. Anyone who has not had substantive contact with a variety of people who participate in the lifestyle are viewed with suspicion that they are "not real."

I deal with 10 - 15 new people at our group almost every month. Many have read well, some have only on-line experience. Their first visit to a group is an eye opener. We refer to it as the deer in the headlights look. "Yes, we really hit people with floggers and whips." "Yes, we know how to do it without causing lasting harm." "No, you don't have to obey everyone who calls themselves a Master." "No, they are still submissive even though they told you to F off, they aren't your submissive." "No means no" etc.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/31/2006 12:08:46 AM

EvilGeoff

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Joined: 8/24/2005
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People don't join groups for many reasons. Most reasons make perfect sense, at least to the people who choose not to join. Personalities may clash, group dynamics vs personal beliefs, expectations are not met, cold shoulders, cliques, boredom, fears about being outted, fear of rejection... All very understandable things.

Some people may have darker reasons for not joining their local groups: trying to hide predatory or abusive behavior, fear of being called out for being inexperienced or ignorant, or trying to sow discord and strife in their community from afar.

People are people, whether they are flying solo or running with a pack, or simpy because they want to be part of a herd. The predators may JOIN the group so they have more targets. An anti-social person may join the group to try to tear it apart from within. *shrugs* And so it goes.

Local BDSM groups meet the needs of many, if groups did not, they would fold. There is a HUGE need (or at least desire) for these groups, just look at the number of groups available today versus the number of groups around just 5 years ago. Hell, when I got started in the BDSM community I had to drive almost 4 hours to get to the closest het (or pan) group / play space. Now, 8 years later, within that same 4 hour driving range, there are *does a rough count on his fingers and toes* something in the neighborhood of TWENTY FIVE groups and/or play spaces, at least one of those is immediately local and the majority of the rest are 2 hours or closer.

As human beings we need to interact with other people, some of us meet that need through the groups we associate with. Groups provide us with the ability to network, to make friends, to find potential play partners or lovers, Owners or slaves. The provide many of us a place to belong. Others, not so much. Their need to socialize is not so strong, their need to interact is met through smaller, perhaps more intimate gatherings with a friend or two or 4, in private places.

Group or solo, neither approach is right for everyone, either approach may be right for someone.

As for why many group members have issues with solo practitioners: simple human group dynamics - a "stranger" = "not our tribe" = "fear, distrust, caution". We can see other members of the herd, interact with them, evaluate their skills, abilities, personality, character. Those who don't join the group, well, not so much. Anyone can claim to be pretty much anything these days (and they often do), but if we do not have the opportunity to see someone walk the walk, please forgive us for wondering if they can only "talk the talk." Saying you are a Dominant/Top or a submissive/slave is one thing, being one is another. And no, simply joining a group does not mean someone is what they claim to be, it just makes it a bit easier to determine if/when a "bullshit!" should be called.

*tosses $0.02 in the jar*

YIK,
- Geoff

(in reply to Whiterabbit0117)

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/31/2006 3:05:04 AM

Padriag

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiterabbit0117

Question - Why do most first timers never return? They stay on our listserv and get the announcements, but we don't see them again. Is real too scary? Was their curiosity sated? Did the subs not fall at their feet? or ??

I can only share my own experiences. The first, and only, munch group I attended I visited just twice. Neither experience lived up to any of my expectations. There was very little information to be had, no real lifestyle dicussions or the like. The other "doms" seemed more preoccupied with trying to impress each other and themselves with talks about toys and such... which immediately annoyed me because anyone who talks that much is probably full of shit. The subs were nice enough and seemed happy I was there (a few were a little too happy, considering several were married and there alone), and that just seemed to put the "doms" off even more. The whole thing was very cliquish and I felt very much like an outsider. The fact that I went back a second time was largely because I'm stubborn and wasn't willing to give up after the first meeting. That was nearly 10 years ago and I've not been to a munch or event since.

I am thinking of trying again this year. After all, its been a long time and hopefully things have improved. Though I've gotten a number of invitations to attend groups near me (its about a 50 mile drive to the closest one so this isn't going to be convenient for me), I'm still not overly hopeful. I realize that most of these groups are small compared to some I hear friends talk about (compared to groups in NYC, Houston or Atlanta), but we'll see what they have to offer.

What would really impress me is if the group was more organized, kept discussions on the lifestyle and related topics. It would be nice if they actually made an effort to welcome someone new, include them in discussions and activities. I don't want to hear about what toy someone just bought... but sharing experiences with various implements would be interesting. And if they have a no smoking policy, I'll be downright amazed (I'm severely allergic to tobacco, the only way I can go to most clubs is if I heavily dose on Benadryl beforehand, and then scrub down afterwards... not a lot of fun for me). A general willingness to share information without making me feel like I have to join some kind of masonic society would be nice.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/31/2006 5:38:51 AM

Lashra

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My sub and I have toyed with the idea of going to a munch but we are both a bit shy around new people at first. I have a friend who's into a group but its mainly a male Master female slave group which won't work for us. She did say they used to frequent a club but left because it was alot of competition between who had the best toys, the best looking fetish wear and who's sub could take the most. Also there was alot of partnew swapping and although I might consider it, I wouldnt want to be pressured to do it. I'd just like to make some friends who are also into the kinky lifestyle.

~Lashra

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 6/10/2006 1:46:32 PM

carolsea

Posts: 185
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: North Carolina
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

[<snip> The fact that I went back a second time was largely because I'm stubborn and wasn't willing to give up after the first meeting. That was nearly 10 years ago and I've not been to a munch or event since.

I am thinking of trying again this year. After all, its been a long time and hopefully things have improved. Though I've gotten a number of invitations to attend groups near me (its about a 50 mile drive to the closest one so this isn't going to be convenient for me), I'm still not overly hopeful. I realize that most of these groups are small compared to some I hear friends talk about (compared to groups in NYC, Houston or Atlanta), but we'll see what they have to offer.

What would really impress me is if the group was more organized, kept discussions on the lifestyle and related topics. It would be nice if they actually made an effort to welcome someone new, include them in discussions and activities. I don't want to hear about what toy someone just bought... but sharing experiences with various implements would be interesting. And if they have a no smoking policy, I'll be downright amazed (I'm severely allergic to tobacco, the only way I can go to most clubs is if I heavily dose on Benadryl beforehand, and then scrub down afterwards... not a lot of fun for me). A general willingness to share information without making me feel like I have to join some kind of masonic society would be nice.

All I can say is, you've been missing out on a LOT in the last 10 years! As Evil Geoff says (and I can vouch for what he says because I know him personally!) things HAVE changed in the last 8 years, even 5 years! I don't know where you live, Padriag, but there are groups from Charlotte to Wilmington to Asheville and many in between, and the ones I have experience with - oh, 6 or 8 of them - are worth checking out. You'll find your braggers and your "call me SIR so-and-so" types everywhere, but mixed in among them are really good people who are there because they're kinky, and they like being with other kinky people. We don't all have to agree with one another, but we do like trying to get a long (most of us! lol), and you can find enough of the good stuff to make it worthwhile.

I went to the LINX Eat Meet and Greet in Charlotte last night - I don't miss many of them. That's where I got my start in the lifestyle about 8 years ago. Linx is one of the first groups in North Carolina, and while it's changed a lot over the years, it's still hanging on, and there's a reason for that! We love new people, and we pick them out when they come in and "meet" them and "greet" them and we introduce them around and invite them to sit with us if they want to, and we don't LET them feel out of place. We warm them up with southern hospitality, and we exchange e-mail addresses and tell them about other things going on in the area and try to make them feel a part of things. There are several people I know in this community who mention to me and to others that they remember me because I'm the first person who spoke to them when they came to a Linx meeting, or one of the other groups.

Not every group is alike. But I honestly believe that there are enough in this state now that anybody who wants to find a group that they like can find one, if they just give it a chance!!! And I'll play hostess to anyone who wants to go to one of them, even if it's a group I've never been to, but I know people in from seeing them at other places.

So there! LOL

Carolsea

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 6/10/2006 2:05:48 PM

peterK50

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Every group I have ever been to is one big clique. They are not welcoming of new members [especially single males]. My suggestion is new members be kept together & helped through the event by Officers of the group or people who would like that job.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 6/10/2006 4:16:25 PM

Brosco

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Joined: 5/29/2006
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I prefer to have my lifestyle discussions online in forums like this. I can participate in the topics that actively interest me, I can browse the ones that I am curious about, and I can completely ignore the ones that I have no interest.

In r/l group meetings I have found that there often can be several discussions going on between splinter groups, and while it is acceptable to move from one to the other, it does seem rude to just walk away from one discussion to join another. I am just not comfortable in that environment.

And while I would not suggest this to be representative of all groups, in the ones I attended there seemed to be a good percentage that were using the meeting as a form of exhibitionism and many conversations were dominated by 'alpha Doms' attempting to out-kink each other.

Brosco

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 6/10/2006 4:37:51 PM

TakesItForU

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quote:

About 10 - 15% play the rest come to socialize

That quote says it all there. Why go to a party where most of the people there don't participate? It's a waste of time. Also, many people want to avoid drama and community politics. Last thing I want is the community to be involved in my private affairs and what occurs in the bedroom. I want experiment with my own bdsm tastes and don't care to publicly celebrate the "lifestyle" as some kind of religious organization or social cause.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 6/10/2006 5:36:31 PM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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Hello A/all,

I have been to a bunch of munches and get togethers and once taught a thing about pressure point usage for bdsm purposes at
a play party.

First off, while I hide it well, I am a very private and shy person. I tend to take quite a while to warm up to people or groups of people.

When I have gone to groups, what generally happens is the regulars hang out with their friends and newcomers are sat on the periphery of the group. While I could go break in and make friends, I suspect a lot of new people going to these things just sit and sip their drink after saying hello and then go home when nobody talks to them.

The problem with new people going to munches is that the onus is on them to break into the group's inner sanctum. Many people
either dont want to be bothered with the effort, or dont know how.

If I was elected Leader Of The Munch, I would designate a few people as "greeter" types and make them go have actual conversations with the new people, introduce them to other people, and stick around until the new people are deep in conversation with the regulars.

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 6/10/2006 5:37:57 PM

Sinergy

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Hello A/all,

On a related note, I personally enjoy the hell out of playing in public.

Just me, and so on.

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 6/11/2006 6:44:51 AM

anthrosub

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In reply to the original question, I can only speak for myself. I went a few times and also to one of the socials held by the Black Rose. What I saw each time at the meetings was a gathering of Dominant males and just over a handful of submissive females for the most part. I'd say the ratio was close to 90/10 respectively. I'm a sub male, so I suppose this could count as not meeting my expectations but I don't think of wanting exposure to Dominant females in my area as a fantasy (although that seems to be what it has become).

Next to that, I noticed there was no apparant effort on the part of the regulars to socialize with me (for obvious reasons based on the mix). At the social, it was pretty much the same and was easily verified because everyone had colored name tags indicating whether they were Dominant or submissive. Everyone tended to form into groups of 5 to 8 or less and appeared to be made up of people who knew each other quite well. There was little if any interaction between groups.

anthrosub

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 6/11/2006 7:14:52 AM

CrappyDom

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Just a few thoughts here.

Every one of those people in a clique or in a small discussion were all new once.

Groups take on aspects of the most dynamic people in the group so if you don't like, try another. If none fit, form one or work with an existing one to create something more along what you seek.

Ask interesting questions which give others a chance to talk about themselves, something most dominants, including me, love to do.

Always shave first and never wear underwear.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 6/11/2006 8:07:26 AM

WhiteRadiance

Posts: 247
Joined: 9/8/2005
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Crappy- lol That is some advice everyone should heed! Thanks! And for those of you from rural alabama- Please do not forget your teeth!

But to answer the OP-
I rarely attend group events.

The reason is simple: For some unknown reson, there is an unwritten and unspoken, yet unbreakable rule within the southern BDSM community that you MUST HAVE A DEMO before the playing can begin.

Here in the deep south, this tradition is imbedded and drilled into everyone... and for me- it is very annoying, as very often I am not interested in being held hostage for hours at a time and made to sit through a boring "how to" of something I do not care to see.

After the self-proclaimed "expert" is finished with the class, the participants finally are allowed to mingle and stretch, eat and socialize. Play will begin after midnight.

As one who can play at home, and who attends events to mingle and socialize, the "demo" (which means someone talking for three hours) is a damn good reason why I am not compelled to go to group events. Unless the demo is a demonstration and not a discussion, I am not interested.

(Once we had a rape demo and a couple got on the stage and talked. wow, that was exciting!) lol

Staci