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RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 11:12:48 AM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, roughleather can speak for himself, but this sentence reveals a lot about the disconnect between "scene folks" and the rest of the BDSM world.  God save me from "well respected scene folks."  If I'm going to talk to someone, I want to talk about something that matters, not about the latest kangaroo-hide singletail they just bought at Dark Tower Fetish Shoppe.


Okay.  What would you consider "something that matters"?

I've always appreciated the opportunity at Munches to chat with folks in the scene who have particular expertise in specific subjects.  Some of them are real world professionals (doctors, lawyers, psychiatrists, etc) who can advise us on issues that I think most people would agree are fairly important to anyone who is interested in BDSM.  Others have published useful books on various kinky how-to techniques, ranging from building nifty toys to safe fisting technique.  That's what I mean when I say "well respected". Gossip about shopping or who is playing with whom really isn't one of the reasons I can think of to go to Munches.


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 11:13:03 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

To me, these seminars hold no interest inasmuch as i expect my One, should i find Him, to know what He's doing and go no further.
 
candystripper



quote:

A little instruction can't hurt.  Don't assume your one will know what he's doing, just because he labels himself as Dom.

KateyLied


TY sweetheart; i need safety concerns raised from time to time.
 
candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 5/25/2006 11:14:45 AM >

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 11:18:42 AM   
ErtcWickdWanda


Posts: 22
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: San Diego, CA & Honolulu Hawaii
Status: offline 		I would agreee about the boreing thing. Then there is the the feeling obligated thing I hate with a passion. I must admit I am more a loner these days, and have been so bitchy at times I can hardley stand Myself. To think of putting Others through an hour and a half of My figned interest would be disrespectful to say the least.
 The only time it gets interesting is when new people get involved, after that it tends to become a bit click-ish in some circles. I have found that after a timely abscence. I would be treated like a un important nobody, and ignored. Quite honistly I thought it was rude. But not A/all groups like that. If there is some schedule or outings, they can be a great place to meet and make new C/contacts,and find out what is going on in the community, but if its just to prance about, and gossip, there really is no point in Me leaving home , I can just go to a yahoo chat room and get the same thing.

_____________________________

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" If I wanted your Opinion, I'd Ask For It "

(in reply to ScooterTrash)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 11:21:29 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

Well, roughleather can speak for himself, but this sentence reveals a lot about the disconnect between "scene folks" and the rest of the BDSM world.  God save me from "well respected scene folks."  If I'm going to talk to someone, I want to talk about something that matters, not about the latest kangaroo-hide singletail they just bought at Dark Tower Fetish Shoppe.

Lam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

I've seen a *lot* of very well respected scene folks at Munches who would think it was pretty fucking hilarious to be labeled "not serious" by some random yahoo on the Internet.


i have a earnest question.  Where does the idea come from that those of U/us who do not attend munches, spanking parties, dungeons, etc. are somehow "deprived" "uneducated" or "not real"?
 
candystripper 




....sometimes from people that have decided that attending or taking part in those type of things RESULT in reality, realness, education or any other type of state in between ..... often a case of judging by their own  standards. It doesn't really make any difference..... if a person is convinced that  that is how you become *real* etc..they tend to stick with that notion.

agirl

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 11:24:36 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Off the top of my head--

global warming, inconceivable liberation, Darfur, the Civil War, why the best particle accelerators are all being built in Europe, whether people who lie are happy, why no one reads contemporary philosophy, is the Slingbox as amazing as people say, and, oh, let's not forget U.S. energy policy

There's more, but "useful books on various kinky how-to techniques" isn't on my list.  If they're genuinely useful books, I can buy them on Amazon anyway; I don't have to go to a munch for that.  Nor am I interested in hearing about whether DarkLord7225 is really two-timing poor little faerieangell.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

Okay.  What would you consider "something that matters"?

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 11:36:19 AM   
Wickad


Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		Hello Eeveryone,

I used to host play parties, attend munches, and go to fetish nights in my area.  I remember when I was new and I did feel a bit intimidated by my first event.  I didn't know anyone and I didn't know what was an acceptable way to approach people.  However, I obviously came back and became one of the more active members of my community.

If someone has a genuine interest in being part of a community there isn't anything that will keep them away.  Some folks don't want to be part of the r/t community and are quite happy being online and playing privately  -  and that's OK, ya know.

Other people just don't have any idea of what they are getting themselves into and when confronted with real people, who look like real people, tend to get all wishy-washy.  I remember a munch where this lesbian woman and I got into a very technical conversation about 'packing'.  We weren't drawing diagrams on the table or shouting it from the rafters or such but the new guy sitting next to me just couldn't take it.  He slammed down his drink, dropped a 'fiver' on the table and was outta-there.  Maybe he was at the wrong table - not really sure.  He hadn't been overly forthcoming to any of my 'hello chatter' so maybe he was just very out of his element.

Either way, I have found that it isn't my responsibility as an organizer to ensure that people come back.  I try to make everyone feel comfortable and ask if they had a good time when they are leaving but if they chose to not come back, for whatever reason, then that is completely up to them.  Our community is large enough that our event is always sold out and we never have to worry about how to pay the bill.  I was providing a space for a very reasonable rate - if folks don't want to come back, that just means there is more time and equipment for those who do.

Wickad

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 11:54:29 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Off the top of my head--

global warming, inconceivable liberation, Darfur, the Civil War, why the best particle accelerators are all being built in Europe, whether people who lie are happy, why no one reads contemporary philosophy, is the Slingbox as amazing as people say, and, oh, let's not forget U.S. energy policy

There's more, but "useful books on various kinky how-to techniques" isn't on my list.  If they're genuinely useful books, I can buy them on Amazon anyway; I don't have to go to a munch for that.  Nor am I interested in hearing about whether DarkLord7225 is really two-timing poor little faerieangell.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

Okay.  What would you consider "something that matters"?



L&M
You can read every book every written word on the subject of golf and become a book "expert" you would be just as likely to shout "SHIT!" off the first tee as you would "FORE!" Any book on single tail use would be just as dangerous as an exclusive source of 'expertise'.

You may be amazed but I've discussed many, I never recall the particle acceleration subject coming up, of these subjects you identify as "important" at lifestyle functions. Just like congress, the people there didn't solve them or come to one agreed solution, but the talks occur. The talk you won't hear is; "I wonder what the internet people are doing?" You will hear; "Why are they afraid to be here?"; but only from the liberal caring folks - not me.
But the reason we socialize with other people identifying themselves as "lifestyle participants" is because it's comforting. We could and often do, not discuss or bring up one lifestyle issue, and yet it's an enjoyable time. There is no worry about appropriate or inappropriate touching or how beth addresses me. Why is it fun to attend Folsom? How can you not enjoy being with thousands of people who share a common desire especially one that "normal" society deems "weird" or "freaky"?
 
If you are comfortable with who you are it's comforting to be around other people who are just as comfortable under the common denominator of the BDSM community. That's it. I doubt any person is exact in their needs, or the depth of their immersion in the life, to any other in attendance. But we exchange information that isn't available from a internet or book source. How was Folsom? Have you ever been to (fill in the blank) function? Did you ever see a demo by (fill in the blank). Which local Dollar Store has the best toys? I'm not getting the same sensation from this type of nipple clip can you recommend another? It's not like this forum. Ask about a particular clip or clamp and it's effectiveness and you'll liable to have 3-4 people pull one out of their pocket to show you.

Discount all you want the value of social BDSM function. Rationalize all you like why you don't need or want to go. But from the perspective of not going or only going selectively, general judgment is not of any value. Just as my perspective of their value, only has value to those who can access the same resources AND have the social ability to engage in conversation and interaction when they attend.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 11:57:42 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
You may be amazed but I've discussed many, I never recall the particle acceleration subject coming up, of these subjects you identify as "important" at lifestyle functions.

I have but that's because my partner is getting his PhD in physics and one of the long-timers in the scene is a physics consultant.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 12:02:44 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Exactly.  The munch-and-play-party crowd always assumes that more people don't come because they're too afraid.  (As though it were SO frightening to come out to Charlie Brown's or the Upstate Diner.)  They never imagine that people don't come because they find munches a ghastly bore.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The talk you won't hear is; "I wonder what the internet people are doing?" You will hear; "Why are they afraid to be here?"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 12:11:22 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Exactly.  The munch-and-play-party crowd always assumes that more people don't come because they're too afraid.  (As though it were SO frightening to come out to Charlie Brown's or the Upstate Diner.)  They never imagine that people don't come because they find munches a ghastly bore.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The talk you won't hear is; "I wonder what the internet people are doing?" You will hear; "Why are they afraid to be here?" but only from the liberal caring folks - not me.


Appreciate that you couldn't disagree with any other aspect of the post.

I'd agree that fantasy, especially internet based fantasy, is a lot less boring, but it is still 100% fantasy. Sometimes reality is boring, but to me, a realty event is always preferable. To each his own.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 12:18:08 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		See, I can't tell whether you're being serious, because this is exactly what I'm talking about.  I couldn't have done a better caricature myself.  Why do all the munch people seem to think that going to a munch is the only way to be "real," and everyone else is just sitting at home jerking off?  There's no other kind of BDSM except what goes on at a munch?  I think I'd have to commit suicide if that were really true.  While the munchers are sitting at Charlie Brown's wondering where all the internet people must be, I'm having a lovely threesome with two full-breasted fem subs--at a PRIVATE location.  (The only thing I have to ask myself is whether to cum in Peach or in the other one.)

The other thing I don't quite understand is why the munch-and-play-party set gets SO defensive about this, but I suppose readers can draw their own conclusions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I'd agree that fantasy, especially internet based fantasy, is a lot less boring, but it is still 100% fantasy. Sometimes reality is boring, but to me, a realty event is always preferable. To each his own.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 12:30:20 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

See, I can't tell whether you're being serious, because this is exactly what I'm talking about.  I couldn't have done a better caricature myself.  Why do all the munch people seem to think that going to a munch is the only way to be "real," and everyone else is just sitting at home jerking off?  There's no other kind of BDSM except what goes on at a munch?  I think I'd have to commit suicide if that were really true.  While the munchers are sitting at Charlie Brown's wondering where all the internet people must be, I'm having a lovely threesome with two full-breasted fem subs--at a PRIVATE location.  (The only thing I have to ask myself is whether to cum in Peach or in the other one.)

The other thing I don't quite understand is why the munch-and-play-party set gets SO defensive about this, but I suppose readers can draw their own conclusions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I'd agree that fantasy, especially internet based fantasy, is a lot less boring, but it is still 100% fantasy. Sometimes reality is boring, but to me, a realty event is always preferable. To each his own.



That's my point - Neither is correct and I was hoping to generate that response so you see there isn't a difference in the two attitudes even though they are at different poles. Besides I wanted to make sure that the "I don't feel that way" clause was added to the quote regarding caring about people's "fear" of attendance. But I don't believe in the position that anyone not there was "sitting at home jerking off"; just as I didn't take your position to mean EVERY munch was/is a "ghastly bore". It's arguable that both our posts inferred exactly that.

You can't be overly sensitive enough when posting for some. (NOT you!) Can we agree and stipulate that SOME munches and functions are a "ghastly bore" and SOME people are afraid and sit at home jerking off instead of taking advantage of the opportunity to find out how boring the group at the munch is.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 12:41:40 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		“Ivory tower” “living in a cave” “coming out of the closet” are clichés for a reason; they have much truth in them.  Doing S&M at home with one partner is of course real, just like doing D/s online is real.  What they both lack is perspective and I do mean lack.  Watching other people do things, whether it be relationships or fisting, expands your knowledge, your concept of what can be, it broadens the mind. 

Of course the quality of the pool you are swimming in makes a difference, small groups in small communities are not going to offer much in the way of variety.  However, even seeing things done badly offers a learning experience.

Are they perfect?  No.  Are they the measure of competence?  Again, no.  However, they do provide a valuable learning experience on many many levels.

As for munches being boring, that is often what I tell people the only risk they face going to a munch.  Take me, I HATE the spank and tickle crap, the fluffy social crap that goes on, even at parties.  My advice, don’t do it.  Look for others who don’t do it and create a critical mass if that is what you seek.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 1:24:03 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Our last munch started at 3 PM. Some of the topics discussed:

Coffee vs Tea
Philosophy/Religion/Spirituality
Star Trek/Dr. Who
Books
Ren Faires
Fencing/Sports in general
Politics/Iraq, Iran & Israel
Drinking & playing
Gas Prices & economy in general
Relationship dynamics
Piercing, flogging, irritants, our local play spaces, BDSM in general
Pro Doms
Camping
Food & Cooking
Service
Jobs and the job market
Corporate politics & the effects on small business
Art
Computers
Flirting

And the list goes on.. around 6, we all decided to go out for dinner.. around 8, we lost one person who had to get home and the rest of us decided to go for coffee.

We finally all broke up around midnight when the place at which we were having coffee closed.

If someone was bored, I would think they would have left before we spent nine hours together. It made for a very pleasant Saturday and we do this once a month. We have a fairly diverse mix of male/fem doms, male/fem subs, tops/bottoms/switches and everyone talks to everyone else.  The main thing.. we all like each other, we respect each other and we like spending time together where we 'can' discuss every topic under the sun, including BDSM but then, we all have things in common outside of having an interest in the best length for the fall of a flogger. Going to munches or not going to munches has nothing to do with how 'serious' someone is about anything. It's just something to do to have some fun and socialize with people you like. We'd probably have just as much fun going bowling together or playing cards. - and I'm sure we'd talk all through those activities as well.

Celeste



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 1:25:27 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

just like doing D/s online is real.


CD,
Can you flesh out the part of your post that I quoted? Trying to project the neutrality I want to convey in the question; how is D/s on-line "real" specially in the context of two people who have never met? Is such a relationship a compromise or should it be a end goal? I've heard it compared to 18th Century "pen pals" and I concede the point regarding intellectual exchange. In person inflicting or receiving sensation generates palatable feedback beyond the written or spoken word. That occurs whether it the interaction comes during in-home, or in a group dynamic. How is that experience accounted for in an on-line exchange? How can the on-line experiences, and the experience level of an individual, be interchangeable with the experiences of people who have practiced in reality the things that are, no matter how graphic, just being described on-line? Are the sensations, be they mental or from self inflicted slaps, stings, clamps, and such equal to the experience of someone taking on that facilitator role? Is the experience any different than that of the previously mentioned "book smart" golfer?

If you are only addressing people who have met and use on-line to stay in touch between meetings disregard the question.

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 1:35:57 PM   
Reflectivesoul


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

First off let me say I have not attended a "lifestyle" meeting of any kind.I have made a mild attempt to do so by going to the site recommended by others here to find out when and where meets are happening in my area..So far no luck I keep getting the maelor demon coming back to me.Secondly, every Dom I have met and I have asked if they were attendees of the BDSM community has told me that the few times they had gone they had found it to be either boring or below par of the standards that they wished.Thirdly, I find it rather daunting to attend alone, or to run into such stated cliques one hears of,or to run across Doms on the hunt so to speak and a submissive alone I feel is like fresh meat calling.I do encourage many on these forums to attend functions in their area.But I have found it difficult to take my own advice..I am attempting to eventually suck it up and go for it.If I can find them..(grin)....be well...Tempting


Try checking this site out, they have lots of info on lotsa groups lol http://www.sandm.com/p/63.html

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 2:06:30 PM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline
(Using fast reply)
Speaking strictly of "munches", here’s reasons why I would not return a second time:

#1 - The cliques. They’re off-putting to onlookers. Newcomers take absolutely no joy in sitting around watching you all talk about your life and family. That provides a newcomer with what?
If you want to sit around and chit-chat with your friends only, quit inviting strangers to attend your get-togethers.

Most munches are really a drag and don’t offer anything I can’t find elsewhere. Half the ones I’ve attended, they aren’t even talking about anything to do with the lifestyle, or anything kinky, or teaching/learning anything about the lifestyle. They’re talking about each other's families, politics, current events, jobs, and gossiping. If I wanted to sit around with a bunch of strangers and discuss current events and politics, I’d take a PS course at the local university. I’m also not there to discuss intellectually appealing topics. I love philosophy and psychology and the arts, but that’s not why I’m attending a BDSM group. I go to lifestyle events, with lifestyle people, with the assumption that it might possibly be lifestyle oriented. If I wanted to sit around in a vanilla setting, with vanilla people, discussing vanilla things, I wouldn’t be at a munch in the first place.
Again, if it’s a group of friends who all have a deep interest in philosophy and enjoy discussing philosophy, quit inviting strangers to attend under the guise that this is somehow a lifestyle group.

Having said that, there are munches I attend. The ones I attend keep their discussions focused on the lifestyle. They don't "save seats" for each other like it's a highschool cafeteria. They welcome newcomers (regardless of what the newcomers are wearing, casual or fetish). They have more "round table" type conversations so that everyone (even newcomers) have a chance to speak and no one monopolizes the discussion. *After* the munch, if closer friends want to stay over and discuss philosophy and current events, they do so. But they never do so *during* the actual munch.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to Reflectivesoul)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 2:19:53 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		now THAT is what would be of interest to ME!

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 2:46:38 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Whiterabbit0117, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I am pleased to see such a high volume of individuals turn out to your social/play parties.
 
The first time I attended, I was escorted and was never left to feel abandoned.
 
Times have changed and in socials, such as munches or at homes, it indeed becomes nothing short of boring and hearing about conquests, gossip and bragging.  People gather into groups or cliques, leaving others out in the cold.  The sad part is, a person can 'feel' the feelings of the group.  Some treated me as a threat as soon as I walked into the door to a luncheon, as they were rather new and a source of intimidation for a want-to-be dominant female, to which created such a drama and falsehoods, it was not pleasant to associate with or endorse for others to attend.
 
It seems to be, the "spirit of intent," to which groups, munches, socials and or play parties; that create the  "air" and enviorment that is welcoming or welcoming on conditions and or, unwelcoming regardless.
 
The host/hostess and or the regulars "spirit of intent" also influences the enviorment, to which is welcoming, tolerant and or unwelcoming.
 
Regardless, of how scene experienced or not, to approach a new group and or assembly of people is difficult.  People want to be accepted.  How the group accepts a person; even me, determines if they will return or not. 
 
At times, real life gets in the way, as the case with me.  My freedom to travel about and enjoying groups have been snipped, as a death of a parent has forced me into a role of care giver.  I do really miss my special group of people in several groups that are four or more hours away.  My ache to attend and hug my fellow members always hurts, as they are very dear to me.  This can be the case with individuals not returning.
 
In summary, I think people are influenced on how they were treated and how the enviorment was to them.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Whiterabbit0117)
Profile   Post #: 79
Re: Why people don't join groups - 5/25/2006 2:53:34 PM   
iliv2servher


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiterabbit0117

Why do most first timers never return?  They stay on our listserv and get the announcements, but we don't see them again.   Is real too scary?  Was their curiosity sated?   Did the subs not fall at their feet?  or ??



There can be a variety of reasons why people do not return.

1. They have satisfied their curiosity and it's not for them.
2. They are high-profile and do not wish to be outted.
3. Participation requires too much of their time (not a priority in their lives).
4. They don't like belonging to groups.
5. They're "civilians" who just walked in off the street and want to share a pizza with someone.

I have been a core member of our local group for nearly 9 years.  I've seen people come and go, and for the most part, cannot remember the names of those who not longer attend.  I've known people who not only show up at muches, and come to play parties and social events, and even host them.  All of a sudden, they completely disappear from the group.  Maybe they are going through a divorce or a death in the family.  Who knows?   Who can predict why people drop out?  I can only speak for myself, in that I've always been open and honest about my particpation. 

Slightly off-topic but still pertainent:

What I started out saying...and what I still believe today is...that when a group becomes too political for me I will simply opt out of it.  I detest both leaders and followers.  The munches and other social events should be a group effort.  The person hosting these events has the right to make rules and the responsibility to enforce those rules, as well as to take the flack if anything goes wrong.  Otherwise, there are no leaders or followers.


_____________________________

Dating sucks!

(in reply to Whiterabbit0117)
Profile   Post #: 80
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