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RE: My Kittens - 4/9/2006 8:10:38 AM

Shayna

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I've always lived in urban/semi-urban communities and NEVER let them outside. All the vets I've had told me to keep them in the house at all times. Because I chose to be a cat owner I went out of my way to set up portions of the indoor environment to meet their needs. Cats need to be able to move horizontally and vertically and it's not that hard to build a cat "tree" with a few perches and stick it near a window.

I do have a friend that lives in a very rural area on four acres. His cat goes outside and that's the only circumstances I would feel comfortable letting a cat out. But in that situation you have to accept the risk that the pet might not come home one night.

(in reply to Gauge)

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RE: My Kittens - 4/19/2006 1:47:55 AM

LostLenore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

quote:

Cats are outdoor creatures. Keeping them locked up in a house could be considered just as cruel as what you are accusing Riot of. Your superiority fails because you are being cruel and unkind in equal measure - just in another way.

Tell that to the ASPCA or the Humane Society. I'm sure they'll change their position on keeping cats outdoors.

Taken directly from the ASPCA website:

Housing
Your pet should have her own clean, dry place in your home to sleep and rest. Line your cat's bed with a soft, warm blanket or towel. Be sure to wash the bedding often. Please keep your cat indoors. Cats who are allowed outdoors can contract diseases, get ticks or parasites, become lost or get hit by a car, or get into fights with other free-roaming cats and dogs. Also, cats may prey on native wildlife.

Identification
If allowed outdoors (again, we caution against it!), your cat must wear a safety collar and an ID tag. A safety collar with an elastic panel will allow your cat to break loose if the collar gets caught on something. And if your pet is indoors-only, an ID tag or an implanted microchip can help insure that your cat is returned if he or she becomes lost.

I'm on board with giving my pets a soft, clean place to sleep indoors, and they wear collars at all times. Hard to find safety collars large enough for some of them. If it's unsafe for cats to roam outdoors, maybe I should stop putting the other ones out as well. The neighbors do look at me a little funny when a pet is scratching at the door and begging to be let in. Does the Humane Society have anything to say about letting one's humans roam free?

(in reply to Evanesce)

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RE: My Kittens - 4/19/2006 12:05:01 PM

Bound4Oz

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Has your kitty returned? While i agree with cats being indoor-only, i have lost two indoor cats. Fortunately, they both returned and i wanted to give you some hope.

A couple of years ago i went outside to dispose of the trash. i hadn't noticed, but one of my babies escaped. The next morning i realized he wasn't in the house and it was now Christmas Eve. i cried the entire day and hardly slept. i put up fliers and my neighbor rang my bell on Christmas Day. He had found my cat eating on his patio, with his cats, the next morning. What had started as the worst Christmas of my life turned into the best one.

That was a quick recovery, but an earlier one took 6 months to return. Someone left the door open, when they brought in my daughter's luggage. That night i couldn't find her. We searched everywhere and she was nowhere to be found. i left to live with my former master, and my children moved in with their father. Like i said, about 6 months later another neighbor spotted the cat and called my family. She had lost so much weight that i didn't think it was the same cat. Over time she gained her weight back and was clearly the lost cat.

So, don't give up hope. And, if you do get him back, please re-evaluate your decision to let him outside. my babies are so important to me (all 5 of them) that i would be devastated if their lives were shortened, because i felt it was cruel to keep them indoors. They enjoy their lives and are extremely happy cats. my dad has been trying to keep his cats inside at night, but because he lives in the country they have been allowed to roam outside as much as they wanted. Sadly, coyotes showed up and 3 of his 10 cats are gone. Now, he has to put them inside at night and has had to do so since last May. It's a lot harder to make an older cat stay inside, than it is to train a young cat to do so.

This website offers a great perch system for indoor cats: http://www.katwallks.com/

(in reply to LostLenore)

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RE: My Kittens - 4/19/2006 1:20:55 PM

RiotGirl

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Thanks to those who understand. Dark Angel that was so eloquently put that it quelled my anger and my initial reaction. Now while my initial action was to come back and just basically say F U, it was also to cry, also to tell you i wasnt looking for sympathy. Sympathy never does anyone any good actually. It doesnt change a thing.

Yes, i'm really upset but i swear at this moment i will not cry, nor will i cry over the harshness. i will swallow it. Its hard missing him. And NO he's not run over. Because i live in a rural area. Not many roads here. There is about two. I'd of seen his body by now. As well as everyone else in my neighborhood. As there is a massive search going on for him. Friendly ppl this neighborhood! i've had ppl i dont even know come to my house thinking they've "spotted" him here or there. My biggest thought is that since my cats stay right around my house, as they dont travel much, he got lost. i have at times taken them for a walk, and yes my cats always follow me (as long as i'm not in a car) They follow me everywhere and once two of them, the silly birds, stopped following to check something out. i knew they had stopped, but was teaching them, to "keep up" The worst that would of happened would of been they had gotten stuck in a tree again. (they do that alot) Anyways, i went back and they hadnt moved from the spot they "lost" me in. Maybe Tigger got stuck some where.

The most heart breaking part of it is, the other two miss him. My cats are whistled train, they come to a specific whistle. i was whistling for Tigger yesterday and the other two jumped up on top of the car and started "meowing" with my whistle. Whatcha gonna do? Just suck it up and keep whistling!

i will remind everyone that i lost a cat "indoors" As a neighborhood little girl snuck in and gave my 3 week old kitten a bath. She died of pnuemonia even though i sat up all night, breathing air into her lungs when she was too tired to breathe. Even though i fought as hard as i could for HER LIFE. She died anyways. Even though, i hitch hiked with that little kitten about 20 miles to a damn vet and then pleaded with the vet to see her anyways as they were closed. Of course as any damn vet would, there wasnt anything he could do. Even though, i tried everything i knew to keep that kitten alive. She DIED INDOORS. Never seeing the outside world (my bad she saw it on the hike to the vet). Even breathing life into her lungs didnt save her cos it just stopped working. No matter. Whatcha gonna do? Go beat up some stupid half wit kid for sneaking into your house, then sneaking into your bedroom and then sneaking into your closet? Knowing FULL WELL not to touch my kittens with out permission and me there? No, beating up idiots that roam the earth is not nice.

Personally i think keeping cats inside is inhuman. And i'm frankly allowed my opionon as well as you all are. See, i've actually been to jail. It sucks and i refuse to jail my cats. It actually gets really boring after awhile. Freedom is such a NICE THING that i refuse to take it from my cats just because i am a human and techinically they are at my mercy, as are all animals below us on the food chain are.

Tell me do you all refuse to eat veal and chicken and all the other animals inhumanly killed and treated so we can go pick up their body parts at the grogery store?

No i dont keep the other two locked in side. As i've said i've lost 3 out of the 5. Suppose i failed the first one too, huh? My little Angel. Failed her as well as i couldnt figure out a way to save her life. You know what? i will actually take that responsiblity on myself.

Just like every other animal i've ever had that died. Just like my damn dog, that ment more to me then any other human on this planet. My father asked me afterwards, as i was starting to lose it, if some one put a gun in my hand and told me to shoot my sister or my dog, who'd i shoot? i had to answer appropriately, my sister was right there. Even though that dog was an "indoor" dog, didnt stop her while i was out of town, to break out the backyard and get run over by a stupid car. No didnt stop her. Didnt stop anyone in the fucking park who saw my dog that day running wild, to actually stop and do something. Nah screw that. Let the damn dog run free. How do i know.. cos the story got pieced back to me, piece by piece.

You know what i did? 6 years later, when i got my Rusty, i taught him to walk off the leash. i taught him hand commands, verbal commands so i could walk him along a busy street. i taught him NOT to cross the street when he saw a car, but sit and wait until the car passed. i taught him car safety, so he'd never be run over by a car.

What we think happened, is he was stolen. Picked up. Cos i had some friendly cats. Yes i blame myself. i was out of town working, if i had been here, i'd of been on the situation, instead of the others that were here. My dog now, is very protective and wont even let the neighbors pick up the cats. She rounds them up when its night time and brings them in even. She most likely knows what happened (but she isnt talking now) but no one listened to her while i was gone.

The only time i've "ever" kept my cats indoor was when i lived in a busy city. And i tell you, Squirt hated it. Hated it so much that when we got back from living in Hong Kong he promptly snuck out of the apartment i was in and disappeared for days. Luckily i have an ear for cats and i was able to find him just by his distant meowing. He promptly snuck out again and again, for days. Finally, while i was incarcerated for 6 months, he got out and stayed gone and i wasnt around to find him. 4 months is a long time to expect to find a cat. Yet i went searching.

Yeah, i have failed every single one of my animals that has died. i even failed a guinea pig when i was 12 years old by listening to a damn doctor and my mother, even knowing they were wrong. The damn guinea NEEDED to go to a hospital, but the vet kept assuring my mother and me "what's ever wrong, wont kill him" Tell that to a guinea pig going into siezures in later that night and dying in my arms.

Whew, okay i feel better. Himself noticed that i was trying not to cry and so he takes me away and hugs me. You know i realised, no one has ever hugged me when it came to loss of any of them. No one's ever cared. Funny as you think about it. No ones can ever understand that my pets are like family to me and mean just as much as any human being to me. Infact i generallly like them more then humans.

As i still refuse to cry, over some half witted judgemental ppl who in all reality mean absolutetly nothing to mean. i will not let ppl who are meaningless hurt me more.. and yes just as soon as you found me when i was low to dig into me, trying to dig your views into me, twisting a knife in an already open wound, automatically made you meaningless. Automatically made you people i would never count as living breathing humans. Nor would ever possibly be able to reach the level that in which i hold my animals in. Not worthy to think about, nor speak to, nor to even ever contemplate your words no matter in which they be. Yup, i gave into emotion now but no worries anger and coldness will spread over the hurt.

and i will find him as he is alive. Tigger is out there - i know, i've dreamt of finding him. Even my good friend who has helped me spread a massive search for him, has dreamed of finding him.

And i will, even if its his body i find, i will find him.

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 4/19/2006 1:22:52 PM >

(in reply to Bound4Oz)

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RE: My Kittens - 4/19/2006 1:51:24 PM

Bound4Oz

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i'm sorry for your pain and can relate to it. i hope your response wasn't directed at me, as i took the time to type words of what i thought were encouragement, not condemnation. i do not pass judgement on others, and while i do not like eating animals that were inhumanely treated, i can no longer afford to pay for those raised cruelty-free. For health purposes, vegetarianism/veganism is out of the question for me, even though it's so difficult for me to eat animal products if i think on it too long. There was a time when i ate 99% organic, but never once did i belittle those who didn't do as i did. i really do hope you find your cat.

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RE: My Kittens - 4/19/2006 3:25:03 PM

RiotGirl

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No i wasnt speaking to you directly. i wasnt speaking to anyone Directly, tho i did speak to Dark Angel directly as her words were so eloquent and astonished me so much and that i so rarely see her these days. Course i spoke to many ppl in the thread. Yet my condemning others that condemned me was only for those that condemned me. Granted lolz 2 wrongs dont make a right. i just can not see it in myself, to stand down from a direct attack when i am already hurting. Atleast, though, i am able to stand down enough to not say what i directly feel. As Himself says, when i get started, i can make a man feel like he's lost his balls.

But no, i thanked those who understood and i sincerly do. Its always nice when you can be understood. Its also even nicer when you're already hurting for some one to understand why it hurts.

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RE: My Kittens - 4/19/2006 3:50:42 PM

bekah78

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I know what you mean by pets being like family. I don't have children so my cats and dogs are my 'kids'. We have been fighting with our vet because my cat is very sick and is still in the hospital. I do wish you luck in finding your cat.

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RE: My Kittens - 4/19/2006 8:41:41 PM

RiotGirl

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Thanks bekah and everyone else again for your words, even if it did become a stupid debate about indoors/outdoors. Yeah, they're my babies. i've loved every single one of them to bits, probably more so then most of my family and i wont forget a single one of them. Heh, i love animals! Cats always find me though as i always find them. No matter where i am and if they arent more then a mile away i can hear them meow in distress. Mostly when its just abnormal. We've so many stray cats in the area, i would say over uh, a couple hundred, or atleast a hundred. i dunno but its massive. There's a trailer park next door with some places between 10 cats that camp out at a house and of course none of them are nuetered as they're all pretty much feral.

Tried to start my "save the feral" cats thing again, but the 4 i had chased off Coon, who followed me home last halloween. Poor little guy. Hmmmm i wonder if, since that the two i have now have finally accepted another cat in their house thats not part of the "gang" would they allow me to start feeding the strays. Feed them, teach them trust, find them homes! Loose dogs i find wandering i snatch up fast. They just seem to be less "street" smart.

We got a kitten to help with the lose of Tigger, but i still cant stop randomly crying.

For all those that think cats are should be kept indoors only, i can only say i think its inhuman. That if i was to live with fear about one of my loved ones being hurt or myself, i would never step outside the door. i couldnt let anyone go to school as there are more then a 100 possible ways for them to die each day. i can not live my life, in a padded cell. Thats not living, nor do i expect my loved ones to live in a padded cell. i dont think they should have to watch the world pass by them, but actually be involved in that world. i think they should have freedom. Even freedom to go if they choose. i dont keep them by "force" or "locked doors" i keep them by love. i refuse to use my size against them. Even tho they've been civilised for thousands of years, i refuse to take something us humans took from them so long ago. Freedom. Freedom to do as you please, as you wish. i suppose, even though i've only once kept a cat locked in doors, after being incarcerated realised how important freedom is. What its like to watch the world pass you by and to not join in.

Maybe some one should lock you folks in a house, maybe then you'll understand what i'm getting at. No freedom to take a walk outside when its a nice day, the closest you'll ever get to a breeze on your face is through a screen window.

But then i'm submissive and not a Dominant who enjoys controlling others.. so maybe thats the difference. i dont feel a need to control my pets, but to let them be as they wish to be.

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RE: My Kittens - 4/19/2006 9:12:28 PM

caitlyn

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RiotGirl ... you can never give up hope.

We had a cat that was missing for seven months. One day, I was laying out next to the pool, and there he was, walking on top of the stone wall between the houses. He'd been living with one of our neighbors the whole time. I can't imagine why ... stupid cat ... our pets have it made.

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RE: My Kittens - 4/19/2006 10:14:54 PM

RiotGirl

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Thanks Caitlyn, havent seen you around much lately. Where ya been? i know i shouldnt give up hope and as terrible as it sounds, i did start to. But my friend and neighbor didnt and with the fact that half the ppl she's talked to, they've spotted a cat just like him. But then we've tons of feral cats soooo.. lol and where do you think his mother got pregnant. One of the feral cats.

Ha! i actually think i know who their father is. A pure white cat from the trailer park next door. As two of the kittens were pure white, Tigger who is missing looked excatly like his mother (God Bless them Both), Socks is almost pure black, but with white mis spashes here and there. they all have "white" on them. Maybe its their mothers gene, i dunno. Tigger with his white chest and white feet. They all have white feet actually. LOL

Yeah trying not too...... but with each day.. <sigh> as terrible as it sounds, i'd even be content to find his body. For him to just not be "out" there. God knows if he's miserable. God knows. i would be content to just find him. Content to be home in whatever condition it was. i've a reward out too and the local teenagers (i live in a rural area, in a subdivision so the teenagers are pretty limited) know me. Know i wont put with any BS and know there is a reward out. They of course all know where i live as they are out front often.

Himself thinks some one took him home, which is why tomorrow i'm putting flyers in every single mail box in this neighborhood. <sigh> The biggest problem with keeping hope is knowing that i can whistle loud, knowing he knows it means "come here" and knowing that its not really a big area, that i should of heard him by now. Every where he could be is walk able, except the cow pastures and marsh land (woods) that surrounds my neighborhood. LOL to help you understand, where i live not one pizza place delivers. We are too far "out" in whats considered the black zone. Yet oddly, my neighboorhood is not rual, i just live in a rule area.

well thats it before i start to cry.

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