RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations

RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (Full Version)

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LillyoftheVally -> RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (5/21/2010 1:01:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot I am not impotent, but sometimes this thought crosses my mind that BDSM oriented stuff is becoming more and more important for my sexual arousal, which leads to fears that over time I could get desensitized and unable to have a sex without it. Yeah I figured, you know I have had very intense D/s relationships, all the 24/7 stuff, D/s is very important to me, I have had vanilla sex once in the last four years, I could do it again, I wouldnt want to though but I could, when D/s gets too much for me I take a break, indeed I have been on a pretty long break and am taking my first tentative steps back, hence being on here, if you are sensible and you know yourself then you dont need to worry, if you become that involved that you physically cant have sex without kink (as I said its rare) then the chances are you wont be looking for sex without kink so it doesnt matter anyways

SocratesNot -> RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (5/21/2010 1:15:06 PM)
quote: Yeah I figured, you know I have had very intense D/s relationships, all the 24/7 stuff, D/s is very important to me, I have had vanilla sex once in the last four years, I could do it again, I wouldnt want to though but I could, when D/s gets too much for me I take a break, indeed I have been on a pretty long break and am taking my first tentative steps back, hence being on here, if you are sensible and you know yourself then you dont need to worry, if you become that involved that you physically cant have sex without kink (as I said its rare) then the chances are you wont be looking for sex without kink so it doesnt matter anyways Well said, LillyoftheVally.

cloudboy -> RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (5/21/2010 2:54:09 PM)
quote: You assume they have a real interest in seeing a balanced viewpoint or changing their bias. If I hate homosexuals I couldn't care less why you think I should accept their lifestyle. I'll happily read people that think as I do. Dissenting opinions would only be fodder for ridicule not awareness. I hate them and I'm happy doing so. I think I am falling in love with you, or if not you, your reasoning and expository skills. One caveat to the above, many who feel hatred and contempt for homosexuals (or some other target group) will outwardly position their POVs as "reasoned," born out from experience, or other 'objective' perceptions. They would deny they "hate" anyone [maybe even to themselves as well] when characterizing the object of their hatred; e.g. homosexuals harm families, lead unhealthy lifestyles, don't set a proper moral example -etc. All these "surface issues" merely mask inner loathing. Bigotry is both overt (as you describe) and sublimated (expressed as 'concern' when in fact it is hateful.) Put another way, what racist ever admits it? I do agree with your point that they are not amenable to change and see the world through ideological filters.

porcelaine -> RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (5/21/2010 4:29:53 PM)
cloudboy, quote: I think I am falling in love with you, or if not you, your reasoning and expository skills. All of the above. grins quote: One caveat to the above, many who feel hatred and contempt for homosexuals (or some other target group) will outwardly position their POVs as "reasoned," born out from experience, or other 'objective' perceptions. I can relate in some measure. Although I was involved with a woman and doing so exclusively, I never considered myself a lesbian or participated in any activities in the gay community. It felt odd to do so. I needed a push from a male partner and subsequent female ones to go forward. I'd never do it on my own. I was mentally opposed to it all. quote: Bigotry is both overt (as you describe) and sublimated (expressed as 'concern' when in fact it is hateful.) I never went that far. But I refused to self identify in that manner. Oddly enough I met a lot of people trying to convince me that I wasn't bi. They had quite the shock when I began seeing men again. Well duh, I told you so. quote: I do agree with your point that they are not amenable to change and see the world through ideological filters. Indeed. I was able to maintain that stance because I didn't have anyone that challenged me. They went along with it. I suppose in someway they must have felt the same or thought it wasn't worth it to rock the boat. Probably a bit of both. I knew why I thought and felt that way. What's really sad is when you do things without a clue. ~porcelaine

whipmaker7 -> RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (5/22/2010 2:25:24 PM)
porcelaine, quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine whipmaker7, You assume they have a real interest in seeing a balanced viewpoint or changing their bias. If I hate homosexuals I couldn't care less why you think I should accept their lifestyle. I'll happily read people that think as I do. Dissenting opinions would only be fodder for ridicule not awareness. I hate them and I'm happy doing so. You assume all minds are as extreme and as closed as that. The world isn't divided squarely into love it or hate it. There's a lot in between, porcelaine. I'm kinda wondering why you keep dancing around that. It seems like you prefer to frame this only as if it's about convincing the guy who wrote that piece differently. quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine But if I merely want validation of my beliefs I probably won't waste time doing it. Not everyone is looking to validate their beliefs. Some don't have beliefs as much as impressions or feelings about things... some have none of the above until they start reading about a subject they never gave too much thought to. Some are legit skeptics who demand to be convinced. some are authors, researchers, and concerned women or men looking into this stuff for the first time because their spouse has an interest. its a hugely mixed pot. quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine You underestimate the credence people place in what they read. There's something to be said about the messenger and his agenda. If they view either with suspicion they probably won't listen. I don't underestimate the 'credence people place in what they read' at all. I don't even understand where you're getting that from. Anyway, we've established that you support working toward tolerance, and that you find the groups who organize for that reason beneficial. I'm not certain why we keep going around and around on this... but I'm still game if you are. [;)]

porcelaine -> RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (5/22/2010 2:43:15 PM)
whipmaker7, quote: You assume all minds are as extreme and as closed as that. No I don't. You have people that fall on every side of the spectrum. You seem to infer that I'm doing this or that. Kinda odd. But maybe that's me. ~porcelaine

Gungho1a -> RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (5/22/2010 4:37:15 PM)
I have probably educated non-genre folk more than I've had to argue with them. With the advent of the internet, and much greater accessability to BDSM content and other practitioners, there will naturally be an increase in hostile or erroneous perceptions. Bigotry and bias need no 'reason' and follow no logic...hence (as was said earlier) you can't argue against it in many cases. If entering into a consensual slave relationship is wrong, because the person is surrendering an element of their free will, then so is belonging to any discipline based organisation, such as law enforcement or the military, or it is inherently evil or bad to practice self-discipline, such as practising celibacy as a priest or nun, or forgoing your basic needs to provide them to others, such as in charity. Edit: I do find that ice cream cone avatar to be rather derogatory, though....

whipmaker7 -> RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (5/22/2010 6:40:52 PM)
porcelaine, quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine whipmaker7, quote: You assume all minds are as extreme and as closed as that. You seem to infer that I'm doing this or that. Kinda odd. But maybe that's me. Well it is you. my line above was just a mirror image of one you wrote to me. Shoe. Other foot. Glad you find it odd too, though.

tigreetsa -> RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (5/22/2010 10:06:00 PM)
FR quote: BDSM is bad because: 1. It reinforces and glorifies sexism either in form of male chauvinism or female chauvinism, which is sometimes romanticized as "female supremacy". 2. Its glorification of sexism makes fun of decades of women's struggle for equality of sexes and for their rights. 3. It is addictive. 4. It causes people to stop being turned on by normal or "vanilla" sexual activities, making them practically impotent. 5. People who pursue BDSM tend to get bored over time with milder practices, so they usually push their limits, often ending up in very dangerous territories. 6. Only in mild forms of BDSM there is equal treatment and respect between those involved. All "pure" forms of BDSM involve systematic exaltation of one side, and depriving the other side of all their rights and humanity. 7. Even if BDSM is consensual it makes fun of thousands of years of bloody fights for freedom which have been fought all over the globe. 8. Absolute forms of slavery are illogical. While minder states of slavery are necessary in order to achieve a certain state of mind, in absolute slavery unreasonable demands of the master or mistress exceed to a enormous degree all that is needed for a slave to achieve a certain state of mind. This is because those demands continue well after that state of mind is achieved. Actually, in 24/7 relationship they never stop. 9. Slaves actually stop being humans, because having a choice, making independent free decisions is an essential part of the definition of the human being. 10. It abandoned its own creed of Safe, Sane and Consensual, now embracing virtually anything, only if it is consensual. New creed is Risk Aware Consensual Kink which permits anything to which one consents fully aware of the consequences including blood, cannibalism (do you remember Armin Meiwes), feces, physical mutilation, etc. BDSM is whatever you want it to be.

whipmaker7 -> RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (5/25/2010 7:12:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tigreetsa BDSM is whatever you want it to be. In one way I want to agree with that, but I also know that this is part of the problem when it comes to people writing the sort of crap in the OP.

Ekoms -> RE: How to defend BDSM from the most common accusations (5/26/2010 1:26:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Several months ago I came across a blog in which there was some very harsh criticism of BDSM. I tried to find this blog again, but it seems it has been deleted. However, when I visited it a few months ago, I managed to save just a small part of it which lists 10 reasons why BDSM is bad. So here is this list: quote: BDSM is bad because: "4. It causes people to stop being turned on by normal or "vanilla" sexual activities, making them practically impotent.' Yep, just like homosexuality, perverted guys start screwing with other guys, and pretty soon they are impotent with females. Those activities are dangerous and should be strictly forbidden and participants arrested. Oh, and also, they should be kept away from children lest they pervert those pure young souls.

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