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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 9:56:12 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
Yes, but not all the "benefits" are the same. For example the situation you described with your slave feels good to me "I like to beat his ass, and he likes his ass beaten". This is some sort of compatibility on personal level which is somehow very beautiful and good to me.

But when he gets sex and she gets money, this is somehow wrong in my opinion I don't know why. I said I would always feel bad about a woman being with me only because of my money. But if she was with me only because she likes to spank my ass and I can grant her this pleasure, this would feel very right and good to me.
I really don't know why, but that's how I feel about it.


But the thread that you're pulling your determination has nothing to do with that.  (I just went and read it.)  What you're talking about is a very common situation that occurs here.  Basically, you had a guy who wanted to cam for someone once a week so she could give him orders (most likely so he could direct him how to masturbate).

Some people might be into that, but for many people, there's not a lot of benefit in that.  I can guarantee you that I would have no trouble finding porn that would turn Me on more that I could pop into the DVD player when I felt like it, rather than having it on someone else's terms due to their schedule and so on.  I can sure as hell find someone who isn't just willing to do so through a screen.  So when people were telling him that what he was offering in his way of 'service' didn't amount to much, they were exactly right.  I'll propose the same question that came up in that thread.  What is really be provided in that situation?


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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 9:56:49 AM   
subangi


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<-----will sub for food.

sorry,  couldnt help it.  that thought jumped in my head as I was reading this.  Demented, warped sense of humor.  I know. 

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 10:09:15 AM   
ReginaMirus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

There is always going to be some benefit happening between the parties or they wouldn't bother.


Yes, but not all the "benefits" are the same. For example the situation you described with your slave feels good to me "I like to beat his ass, and he likes his ass beaten". This is some sort of compatibility on personal level which is somehow very beautiful and good to me.

But when he gets sex and she gets money, this is somehow wrong in my opinion I don't know why. I said I would always feel bad about a woman being with me only because of my money. But if she was with me only because she likes to spank my ass and I can grant her this pleasure, this would feel very right and good to me.
I really don't know why, but that's how I feel about it.



How gracious of you to grant her such pleasure.

You might be looking for is a service top, not a domme. Not a thing wrong with that at all, just be mindful that some of us want more than that.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 10:23:53 AM   
SocratesNot


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quote:

What is really be provided in that situation?


Well, it depends on how submissive this guy really is. If he is genuinely submissive and really wants to please a girl online, he would do it the following way.
First, he would adjust to her schedule and not vice versa. Second, he would not demand anything from her. He would not demand her to instruct him how to masturbate, he would not demand her to fulfill any of his fantasies.While on cam with her, he would simply do anything she asks him to do. This can include listening to her personal problems and giving her advice how to solve them, providing her comfort after stressful day at work, listening to her favorite music and telling her how beautiful it is, discussing her favorite movies and any other topics she likes to discuss, comforting her psychologically in any way. She could also ask him to punish himself exactly in a way she wants and she could get satisfaction from watching him doing it. She could try all sorts of fun experiments on him and he would obediently follow (as long as they are not causing any long term harm). If I was a domme I would have a really good time dominating a poor creature online, and this in itself would be enough for me. Asking for money or some seruious favors probably wouldn't even come to my mind. But I am not a Domme. I am a male. I definitely have both dominant and submissive tendencies in myself, and as a male Dom, this is how I would use the opportunity to dominate a girl online. I could also instruct her how to please herself and I would also be pleasing myself while watching her obeying my requests in sheer delight.

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 5/21/2010 10:33:38 AM >

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 10:27:10 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
Well, it depends on how submissive this guy really is. If he is genuinely submissive and really wants to please a girl online, he would do it the following way.
First, he would adjust to her schedule and not vice versa. Second, he would not demand anything from her. He would not demand her to instruct him how to masturbate, he would not demand her to fulfill any of his fantasies.While on cam with her, he would simply do anything she asks him to do.


Straying into one true way here lovely. Firstly 'how submissive someone is' really isnt something easy to measure.

I am perfectly submissive when I want to be but I don't much like being demanded to do anything and I would never do 'anything someone asks me to' simply because I identify as submissive, I have my own parameters of what is ok, that doesnt make me less of a submissive


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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 10:28:53 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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You seem to view things as the act and then impress certain things upon those acts.

The reality is that acts are nothing, they are space holders.  We can (and do) fill them with what works for us.

Driving a car isn't submissive or dominant.  They might be serving as a chauffeur or being the one to decide where and how they get someplace.

The value you place on an act is important for you to understand, but just as important not to presume everyone values the act in the same way.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 10:35:05 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
Well, it depends on how submissive this guy really is. If he is genuinely submissive and really wants to please a girl online, he would do it the following way.
First, he would adjust to her schedule and not vice versa. Second, he would not demand anything from her. He would not demand her to instruct him how to masturbate, he would not demand her to fulfill any of his fantasies.While on cam with her, he would simply do anything she asks him to do. This can include listening to her personal problems and giving her advice how to solve them, providing her comfort after stressful day at work, listening to her favorite music and telling her how beautiful it is, discussing her favorite movies and any other topics she likes to discuss, comforting her psychologically in any way. She could also ask him to punish himself exactly in a way she wants and she could get satisfaction from watching him doing it. She could try all sorts of fun experiments on him and he would obediently follow (as long as they are not causing any long term harm). If I was a domme I would have a really good time dominating a poor creature online, and this in itself would be enough for me. Asking for money or some seruious favors probably wouldn't even come to my mind. But I am not a Domme. I am a male. I definitely have both dominant and submissive tendencies in myself, and as a male Dom, this is how I would use the opportunity to dominate a girl online. I could also instruct her how to please herself and I would also be pleasing myself while watching her obeying my requests in sheer delight.

You really don't get it, do you?


ETA - I want you to read this thread in it's entirety.  http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2859076&key=strangers%2Cmasturbating


< Message edited by LadyPact -- 5/21/2010 10:39:25 AM >


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:00:17 AM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
"If your partner is NOT interested in you unless you offer some financial tribute OR some other kind of useful practical work, you should never be in a relationship with her / him, no matter what kind of relationship it is, D/s or vanilla, online or real life."

It could also be said in this way:

"You should only be in a relationship with a partner who is interested in you as a person regardless of any economical or other utilitarian benefits they may get from you."


Couple ways to look at this.  A relationship can be mutually fulfilling even if it is not romantic or idealistic.  Consider for instance an apprenticeship.  In exchange for working a number of hours, you will be taught a skill.  Consider also any vanilla job situation.  You work, you get rewarded.  You hire a pro domme, whether in the coin of money or your hours of labor, you get the exact fetish fulfillment session you want.  You give X, you get Y.  If it is a fair exchange and mutually agreeable to both parties, then it works for them. 

Sometimes the exchange can be subtle and it can be hard to tell what the person on one end is actually getting out of the arrangement.  The only real answer is to ask the person whether they feel they are getting enough out of the relationship to voluntarily continue it without any outside pressure or need to do so.  Remember that their answers may be entirely different from yours, because their fun buttons get pushed by entirely different things.

If you, personally, have the specific need to be in a relationship where you are highly valued, appreciated and wanted as a person, and you would not be capable of enjoying any form of intimacy if this need was not met, that's totally understandable.  I'm wired that way too; I really dislike being objectified and seen as a fetish provider or as a set of tits with a whip.  I'm perfectly willing to go there (with limits on the amount of intimacy) for money or labor, as that is a fair exchange, but I won't be unilaterally used that way for free. 

Now by your advice nobody should ever engage me as a service fetish provider on that basis, and I don't agree.  I won't ever lead someone on and tell them that this is a road to real intimacy or a personal or romantic relationship, because it's not.   But it is a fair and legitimate exchange for two people to get what benefits them and to make a fully consensual agreement as to who gives what and who gets what.  It's only a problem when deception is involved, which admittedly can be fairly often with "stealth pros" who are not ethical in their business practices or who claim not to be engaging in pro fetish provider work when in fact they basically are.


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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:13:21 AM   
SocratesNot


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Again, very intelligent response. I like the way you look at the things LadyNTrainer.
My advice was actually that people don't get in a RELATIONSHIP where they are not desired as persons. Since a session with the pro-domme is not a relationship, this could be an exception. I admit I put it a bit awkwardly at first. Actually pro domination isn't bad in itself, it is bad if it is used as a replacement for a real relationship.
As long as the relationships between provider and client are clearly separated from personal relationships, all is cool. The problem is that in the D/s it can sometimes get blurry, and also, as you said, it's unethical to play the lifestyle domme, and after some time start asking for tributes.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:17:01 AM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Again, very intelligent response. I like the way you look at the things LadyNTrainer.
My advice was actually that people don't get in a RELATIONSHIP where they are not desired as persons. Since a session with the pro-domme is not a relationship, this could be an exception. I admit I put it a bit awkwardly at first. Actually pro domination isn't bad in itself, it is bad if it is used as a replacement for a real relationship.
As long as the relationships between provider and client are clearly separated from personal relationships, all is cool. The problem is that in the D/s it can sometimes get blurry, and also, as you said, it's unethical to play the lifestyle domme, and after some time start asking for tributes.



Your advice lacks insight and knowledge. Why would anyone take it?

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:17:04 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

it's unethical to play the lifestyle domme, and after some time start asking for tributes.

Depends on what you call a tribute.  At some point in a Ds or Ms situation, the one in charge is going to expect something from the one not in charge in terms of active submission. 

This could be identical to what some people see and use as "tribute."  In fact the entire deal with worshipping, which is very common, could be considered a type of tribute.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:19:07 AM   
porcelaine


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SocratesNot,

quote:

"If your partner is NOT interested in you unless you offer some financial tribute OR some other kind of useful practical work, you should never be in a relationship with her / him, no matter what kind of relationship it is, D/s or vanilla, online or real life."


I don't believe in shoulds. Our scales will never be identical. What one person places priority on may be of no consequence to another. Much of what you've stated comes down to compatibility.

quote:

However, if your Mistress or Master is only interested in having you give them money or do them dishes or make them websites, you shouldn't be with them.


He probably wouldn't be talking to me. However, the things mentioned wouldn't be an issue for all submissives.

quote:

You should be in a relationship only if your partner is interested in you even if he / she doesn't get any practical, economic or utilitarian benefits from you.


This doesn't sound realistic. There's always tangible benefits.

quote:

If your partner doesn't recognize your uniqueness and irreplaceability you shouldn't be with them.


I shouldn't be with him if he doesn't value me as a person and has no desire to invest in my betterment in any way.

~porcelaine


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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:21:38 AM   
SocratesNot


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What I consider to be a tribute is very clear - this is money, or something that the domme would otherwise pay for in order to be done, and also, something that she would never expect her friend or realative or husband to do for her for free.


< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 5/21/2010 11:22:33 AM >

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:23:16 AM   
Jeffff


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This is kevin....isn't it...:)

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:23:54 AM   
SocratesNot


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quote:

Your advice lacks insight and knowledge. Why would anyone take it?


Maybe because there is someone who thinks the opposite, or even agree with me to some extent.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:24:32 AM   
ReginaMirus


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I'm beginning to think it is.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:25:39 AM   
Jeffff


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Fair enough... that was me just being shitty.

I will say that you have gotten some very good input from a few women here.

You should probably pay attention

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:30:24 AM   
ReginaMirus


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Yeah, my input has pretty much been ignored, so I think I'll take my merriment elsewhere.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:36:00 AM   
SocratesNot


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I can't respond to every single post when there is so many people involved in discussion. Sorry if you feel that I ignored you or something. There are also two more threads active now, which I am also following, so I answer to all of them, and I probably missed some points. It wasn't intentional.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 11:36:38 AM   
Jeffff


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It's ok kevin.......... we understand

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