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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:06:05 PM   
Jeffff


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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:08:26 PM   
LadyPact


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Status: offline 		OK.  I get it now.

It's really just some kind of 'spread the propaganda' day and I wasn't aware of it.

(I feel like it was April Fool's Day and I didn't figure it out until 2:00 PM.)


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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:10:40 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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Status: offline 		Yeah... it is along the lines of..." And a dumbass shall lead them"

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:13:16 PM   
laurell3


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Status: offline 		The beauty of the forums is that statement is sometimes true and it's so damn funny.......LP you have mail.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:14:09 PM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

O.o.


BDSM without love is a sham. It is both morally and ethically wrong



~smiles~


Jeffff
For a moment, you scared me.
Whew!

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:16:16 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

I am very fond of the dynamic you described in your poly triad, LadyNTrainer.


I am too, or I wouldn't be in it.  However, for many people, the dynamics we have *would not work at all*.  Some people are wired to be monogamous and are not right for poly.  I respect them, too.  I would not so narrow minded to suggest that my way is the right way for everyone.  Can you not see why that would be awfully presumptuous of me, not to mention simply incorrect?  Some people are happiest and healthiest doing poly, others are happiest and healthiest in monogamy.  Some people are wired to want and need female led relationships, others are wired to want and need male dominance.  Some people are gay, others are straight, still others are bi.  I could go on, but hopefully you get the picture.


quote:

I was only suggesting that it might be wise for people to avoid being in long term, serious relationships which are only based on money and utility, and I still hold to this opinion.


Unfortunately, you don't seem to share my view that there is more than one right way of doing things when it comes to human relationships, and that's why your posts have not been very well received.  I would never be so rude as to suggest that people should avoid being in long term, serious relationships that are not poly and femdom.  It works so well for me, so why shouldn't that be what I tell everybody they should do?  Except if I did that, I would rightfully be laughed out of the community by everyone including other poly femdoms.  Not everybody is wired the same way as me.  That's a pretty important lesson to learn.

Respecting that different people have different needs and desires is important, even if you don't share them or understand them yourself.  As long as two or more consenting adults are enjoying their kink, and they're doing it safely in a way that isn't going to impact anyone else, it is not your place to tell them they should be doing it differently.  If you do that, then you're being a rude buttinsky and people will respond to you accordingly.  


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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:20:22 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

What I consider to be a tribute is very clear - this is money, or something that the domme would otherwise pay for in order to be done, and also, something that she would never expect her friend or realative or husband to do for her for free


Oh well that means I've given and expected to give tribute in every single long term relationship I've had.  I'm cool with that :)

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:22:19 PM   
Jeffff


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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:39:24 PM   
dreamerdreaming


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Status: offline 		Fast reply (haven't read the thread):

Nope. I do not agree with that statement.

I'm about relationships of mutual fulfillment and self-actualization. Business relationships do qualify. And personal relationships that involve a business component qualify as well. Whatever is mutually agreed upon, and mutually beneficial, works for me. Too easy.

Thanks for asking!




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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:54:21 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
Well, it depends on how submissive this guy really is. If he is genuinely submissive and really wants to please a girl online, he would do it the following way.
First, he would adjust to her schedule and not vice versa. Second, he would not demand anything from her. He would not demand her to instruct him how to masturbate, he would not demand her to fulfill any of his fantasies.While on cam with her, he would simply do anything she asks him to do. This can include listening to her personal problems and giving her advice how to solve them, providing her comfort after stressful day at work, listening to her favorite music and telling her how beautiful it is, discussing her favorite movies and any other topics she likes to discuss, comforting her psychologically in any way. She could also ask him to punish himself exactly in a way she wants and she could get satisfaction from watching him doing it. She could try all sorts of fun experiments on him and he would obediently follow (as long as they are not causing any long term harm).


That's actually pretty decent advice there, even if you communicate it in an all-knowing and condescending manner that is getting on people's nerves.  Mostly what you describe is called friendship, or a good foundational relationship.  It still works a hell of a lot better in person than online, though I do get those things (and give them, too) with my real life partners when we're communicating online.  You can have friendships like this that are also D/s relationships, and they're awesome.  But once again, this isn't the One True Way of doing things that everyone should follow.


quote:

If I was a domme I would have a really good time dominating a poor creature online, and this in itself would be enough for me. Asking for money or some seruious favors probably wouldn't even come to my mind. But I am not a Domme. I am a male. I definitely have both dominant and submissive tendencies in myself, and as a male Dom, this is how I would use the opportunity to dominate a girl online. I could also instruct her how to please herself and I would also be pleasing myself while watching her obeying my requests in sheer delight.


You like what you like, I like what I like.  Those things are different.  You're visual, I'm tactile.  That's actually fairly typical of male versus female brain wiring.  I'm not all that into looking at porn pictures, even if they're really hot and depict my kink preferences perfectly.  I'd really rather read a well written story; that will turn me on a lot more.  And I'd MUCH rather get my hands on someone.   I just don't get a lot, sexually speaking, from engaging the visual sense alone when tactile and olfactory is by definition absent.  Along with the majority of women, I'm just not well wired to enjoy someone's submission when it is online only.  Way too much of the fun is missing if I can never touch them.

My not being all that inclined to enjoy online-only kink, especially with relative strangers, does not mean that I'm "not a REAL domme" or that I don't very much enjoy owning and dominating men.  I do, but if I can't touch and feel, it pretty well guts the experience for me.  And if a deeper emotional connection and a foundational relationship isn't there, if I'm playing with someone I barely know and am not in love with, then the fun quotient can approach zero for me.  I like doing these things *with my collared submissives* because I love them, am insanely attracted to them, and because we have an awesome existing relationship and deep emotional connection.  With strangers, it's a lot more like work.  I will do it for fair compensation, but I'm unlikely to be having enough fun there that I'd be willing to cater to their kinks or watch random horny dudes wank off for free.  That's definitely no fun and no fair, either.

But hey, I guess I'm not a REAL DOMME if I don't automatically want to do this shit with random strangers on the Internet.  I'll be sure to turn in my REAL DOMME membership card at the Central Office of BDSM Relationship Arbitration, which it seems you are quite actively attempting to administer. 


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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:54:31 PM   
SocratesNot


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quote:

Unfortunately, you don't seem to share my view that there is more than one right way of doing things when it comes to human relationships, and that's why your posts have not been very well received.  I would never be so rude as to suggest that people should avoid being in long term, serious relationships that are not poly and femdom.  It works so well for me, so why shouldn't that be what I tell everybody they should do?  Except if I did that, I would rightfully be laughed out of the community by everyone including other poly femdoms.  Not everybody is wired the same way as me.  That's a pretty important lesson to learn.


Of course there is more then one right way. There are hundreds of right ways. I am not telling people which way is right. I also expressed my opinion that one of those ways, the one that represents serious, long term, intimate relationship based exclusively on money or utility might be wrong.
I am 100% sure that there are a lot of people for whom this way is perfectly right, and for them, the only thing that I did by giving this advice is making a fool of myself.

However, there are other people, and I personally think that they represent a majority, who share my view that FOR THEM being in a relationship which is only based on money or utility is not OK. And then there are also those who are not sure. These people who are not sure were my primary audience.
If we were so abso-fucking-lutely concerned about the fact that "Not everybody is wired the same way as me. " we could NEVER EVER give ANY advice to anyone. And also this would mean that there is no such thing as human nature, and that there are no things which are more or less in common FOR EVERYONE.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 2:57:13 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Here it goes:

"If your partner is NOT interested in you unless you offer some financial tribute OR some other kind of useful practical work, you should never be in a relationship with her / him, no matter what kind of relationship it is, D/s or vanilla, online or real life."

It could also be said in this way:

"You should only be in a relationship with a partner who is interested in you as a person regardless of any economical or other utilitarian benefits they may get from you."

Let me give some examples.
First, vanilla examples:

1. You should only be with a woman if she is attracted to you sexually or if she fell in love with your personality. If she is with you only because you are rich, or have a beautiful apartment and an expensive car, you shouldn't be with her.

Now some BDSM examples:

2. You should be with the Master / Mistress only if he or she is genuinely interested in dominating you - for example she gets off when she sees your buttocks red from her whip and she loves it; or in other relationship - he adores the mere fact that you obey him and behave like his little girl. Or generally your Dom(me) is in love with your personality, your looks, your intelligence, and of course your obedience.
However, if your Mistress or Master is only interested in having you give them money or do them dishes or make them websites, you shouldn't be with them.

Do you agree with this?

I'll try to rephrase it once more:
" You should be in a relationship only if your partner is interested in you even if he / she doesn't get any practical, economic or utilitarian benefits from you."

P.S.
I'm not going to say that serving your partner in practical things is bad. Of course that you will do all the best for their wellbeing, including practical, utilitarian and economical support. I am only saying that you shouldn't be in a relationship in which you would be unneeded and undesired without this component.

I mean, anyone can give you money, wash your car, clean your house or cook your food. But you want to be in a relationship with someone because of their personal qualities, because of their uniqueness, in which no one can replace them. If your partner doesn't recognize your uniqueness and irreplaceability you shouldn't be with them.



I don't care what anyone else does. I don't care what works for anyone else. All I care about is what works for me and mine. Everyone else can do what works for them.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 3:04:43 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

This is kevin....isn't it...:)


Exactly what I've been thinking. Come on kevin 'fess up.


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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 3:05:28 PM   
SocratesNot


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quote:

But hey, I guess I'm not a REAL DOMME if I don't automatically want to do this shit with random strangers on the Internet.  I'll be sure to turn in my REAL DOMME membership card at the Central Office of BDSM Relationship Arbitration, which it seems you are quite actively attempting to administer. 


Yes you are a real Domme, LadyNTrainer. I never said the woman must get off from dominating guys online in order to be real dommes. The only thing I said is that since it is the fact that most dommes do not enjoy it, it wouldn't be wise for a guy to expect a real relationship based on online-only domination. 

All the other things you said in your last post I pretty much agree with.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 3:10:38 PM   
lally2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Now I will tell you what inspired me to start this topic.
I saw this theread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3190126/mpage_1/tm.htm

in which a guy said he was in a search for an online domme, but only if she doesn't require a tribute.
Most of other posters told him that he is very unlikely to find such a domme, because she is not getting anything in return.

Which implies the following - she is only interested in his money or some other practical service, which also implies that she doesn't enjoy dominating him at all, and finds no pleasure in it, quite the contrary it is boring to her, so she wants a compensation.

If this is really the case with online dommes, then no genuine submissive should be in relationship with them, because they (the dommes) aren't really enjoying it or getting off of it, and if this is the case, by submitting you are not pleasing them at all. And what is the purpose of being submissive -  to please a domme, to satisfy her.
If you can't satisfy her, she charges you for spending (actually wasting) her time on you.

Some may argue that the financial tribute is also a way to please, which may be the case, but in most cases it is not pleasing per se, but compensation for wasting some of her time, she could spend more productively.

So I would recommend submissives to only be with dommes who genuinely get wet when they see them on they knees, and not those who are just providing a fantasy (which is not at all exciting for themselves) and charging for it.



i think you have to look at something like that, make youre own mind up about what it all means to *you* and respond accordingly.  for what its worth i agree - sounds pretty soulless to me too.  so i leave that to the people who enjoy/accept it for what it is and make my own way.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 3:16:34 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

SocratesNot,
i don't mean to criticize, but i've read a few of the threads that you've started recently, and several of them seem to be a bit naive.



I mean to criticize...You really suck ass as a thread starter. Please stop doing it.

Rochsub wanted to say that....It's that whole subby polite shit. He actually hates you. Really hates you.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 3:47:26 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
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Status: offline 		Why would anyone hate me just for starting few threads and being naive? I don't get why people take all of this on such deep personal level.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 3:55:02 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Why would anyone hate me just for starting few threads and being naive? I don't get why people take all of this on such deep personal level.
Domi hates everybody. Or he's a big softie and hates nobody. I have difficulty deciding which.

I don't think anyone else actively hates you. People have been pretty mild really.


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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 4:00:05 PM   
domiguy


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Status: offline 		Rochsub can't stand him....The only reason I don't like him is because I am missing my foreskin.

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RE: An interesting piece of advice - do you agree with it? - 5/21/2010 4:07:15 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The only reason I don't like him is because I am missing my foreskin.
...and, for the first time ever, I have *no idea whatsoever* what you're talking about.

Usually you're faintly irritating but eminently understandable. Why are we discussing your foreskin, terrible as I'm sure the loss you feel must be?

ETA: and don't think I didn't notice that you haven't denied being a big softie, Mr Dead Necro Pious Rapperman


< Message edited by VaguelyCurious -- 5/21/2010 4:19:39 PM >

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