RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (Full Version)

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lally2 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:00:05 PM)

it actually happens organically anyway, well it did for me.  confidence and self esteem grows as you get more confident about who you are.

for me, and im sure for plenty of subs finally identifying with all of this provided a powerful platform from which to grow and develop. 

actually i can see a  correllation with this topic and his previous one - clearly he has switch tendencies and is trying to expand his ideas and work out if what he wants is possible.  to the OP it is possible to take a less than confident submissive, give her the platform to develop and grow from where she can express herself and feel comfortable doing so.  as she does confidence in herself will grow and so will her self esteem.

i think though that you have to be careful about finding a sub with switch abilities - personally i would find it difficult to dominate my partner and it would mess with my head a bit.



VaguelyCurious -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:02:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Especially if I encountered someone with issues with their self-esteem and self-confidence (which is quite often the case with submissives)
Genuine question: how many submissives (by which I mean people who are in/have had/genuinely intend at some point to have D/s relationships) do you actually know? This condition you cite as occurring 'quite often' is not representative of all that many of the submissive women (or men, actually) that I know.


quote:

..which would allow them to experience being in charge, being in control (a certain ego boost), while at the same time satisfying my switchy desires.
If they are topping on your orders then they aren't really in control or in charge. I'm saying this as a Dominant who bottoms sometimes, so I have experience here. If they are focussed on 'satisfying your switchy desires' then they aren't in charge...



Wolf2Bear -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:03:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: frazzle

Cant wait fo myotherself to see the new pic[:D]

i'd hide bear, shes ferocious[:D]


Meh...not worried. Besides, all anyone has to do is verify with the Pirate that permission was granted for me to use that specific photo.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:03:58 PM)

quote:

i think though that you have to be careful about finding a sub with switch abilities - personally i would find it difficult to dominate my partner and it would mess with my head a bit.


It's not the mine field the propagandists like to make it out to be.  People do it all the time and there's no issue at all.

The reality is that everything the OP is both for and against happens in real relationships all the time.  The reality is that we'd all be more than happy to help him understand exactly what helps, what hinders, how pieces can fit and flow together and share our personal experiences.

Unfortunately he seems to be stuck in this "I have to act like I know what I'm talking about and speak in a psuedo-intellectual style to get some respect" and that's preventing him and then us from actually engaging in meaningful discourse.



domiguy -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:08:10 PM)

I have suggested that a few women should get their ducks a little more in a row....The only thing I have ever attempted to change a sub into was a pizza.

I have not perfected the technology as of this posting.

I will keep you all informed on my progress.

This is going to be huge. Aside for the soon to be reckoned with sub shortage. On an up note, the price of a pizza should plummet accordingly.




VaguelyCurious -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:08:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Really? My theory was that someone had developed a random BDSM post generator and was testing it out.
Sorry, Jeff, but I'm gonna have to call you on your inconsistency here :P

From the other thread:

quote:

6.8 billion people on the planet. Yup, some of them ARE this dense...really.


So which is it?

teehee



DomImus -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:10:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
One of their tasks as my subs would also be to dominate me when I want it, which would allow them to experience being in charge, being in control (a certain ego boost), while at the same time satisfying my switchy desires.


Achieving this objective doesn't really require making anyone more dominant, per sé. They might have to develop topping skills to suit your needs but topping in the context you describe is a bit different from what most people recognize as being dominant. You might be better off seeking out someone with the same switch type personality as yourself whose dominant/submissive percentage indirectly matches yours. My instinct tells me that you might be happier with that than teaching your submissive how to top. Many simply are not interested in that type of activity.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:12:15 PM)

quote:

Many simply are not interested in that type of activity.


Not that interest is relevant in many areas subs are expected to become competent in- but it does tend to help.



DomImus -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:14:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

Many simply are not interested in that type of activity.


Not that interest is relevant in many areas subs are expected to become competent in- but it does tend to help.


Okay. Let me rephrase... "Many are uninterested enough in that activity that they would likely dismiss the relationship from the outset."





lally2 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:16:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

i think though that you have to be careful about finding a sub with switch abilities - personally i would find it difficult to dominate my partner and it would mess with my head a bit.


It's not the mine field the propagandists like to make it out to be.  People do it all the time and there's no issue at all.

..


hi LA, good to see you back btw)

im sure thats the case - just when i try to imagine tying up my M and spanking him it all gets a bit wierd for me [:D]



DomImus -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:16:20 PM)

I've seen some of you forum regulars write opus threads that are nothing but sheer pablum. Is it that freaking difficult to click the X and move to another thread?



tsatske -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:19:56 PM)

I am a submissive woman. I have been since birth, but had a happy vanilla marriage when I was younger which produced my beautiful, wonderful, now adult sons. We stayed married as long as the preacher told us to, and I never sought another vanilla relationship after that, because I am a submissive woman, and by then I knew I was not the only one in the world, and it was possible to meet Dominant men.

Early in my path as a sub, I had a Top or two (referring to their role in my life, not making a judgment about their Dominance. They simply were not a Master to me, only a Top) ask me to top them, sometimes very mildly. a little later, I had partners ask me to Top other women. I am capable of neither. I do not have a Dominant bone in my body.

In addition to being submissive, I am mentally ill, past forty, fat, and balding, and, as my last two attempts taught me, no longer suitable for breeding. I have odd ideas about Religion, Philosophy, Science, Child rearing, Literature, Art, Politics, and everything else that matters, and I am damned opinionated about it, too. I talk too much and sometimes too loudly.oh, and as was pointed out in a recent thread, my spelling sucks eggs. Plus, I am not a great lover of animals in the house. I am waiting with great impatience for grandchildren, and am extremely active with my family and my church - a deal breaker for many Doms. I have other disabilities which limit certain play activities. I am not a suitable partner for most people - but, in my opinion, no one is a suitable partner for MOST people, and I am only interested in finding those with whom I am a good match.

None the less, I am warm, sweet, sympathetic, great with kids, a great cook, intelligent, a great conversationalist, witty, with a great sense of humor, a sparkling personality, and a zest for life. For someone I am the perfect slave. I like to get beaten on now and then, rather severely being my preference - but there is nothing wrong with my self esteem. Where exactly did you you get the idea that 'many' subs have low self esteem?



SocratesNot -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:22:41 PM)

quote:

I'm not sure you understand the difference between dominant orientation, dominant personality and being a top.  Can you tell me what you consider the differences to be?


OK, so you asked me this. Well, in my mind the one who has a dominant orientation actually likes to engage in D/s as a Dom(me), the one who has a dominant peronality is assertive in real life and a natural leader, can easily influence other people without any kink or sex involved, and finally a top is someone who is in charge during a single scene, who actively does something like spanking, etc. Top can be dominant or even submissive if he/ she does it to please their masochistic Dom(me).

quote:

If they are topping on your orders then they aren't really in control or in charge. I'm saying this as a Dominant who bottoms sometimes, so I have experience here. If they are focussed on 'satisfying your switchy desires' then they aren't in charge...


But they would be in charge. I would let them take the whole initiative one day. They would do everything the way they want. I wouldn't tell them how to dominate me. If their way of dominating me is refusing to do this, I would be OK with it. But they would have full control of everything that happens this day.





laurell3 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:24:32 PM)

wow...just wow...kudos to you tsatske, I applauded in my living room.



SocratesNot -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:35:44 PM)

I agree tsatske gave a very beautiful confession.

quote:

Where exactly did you you get the idea that 'many' subs have low self esteem?


I got this idea by for example reading profiles of slaves and submissives who every now and then mention things like they are worthless or they want to be taken advantage of and similar things. Also, even those subs who never admit that they have issues with self-esteem tend to be quite self-conscious and much quicker to recognize bad sides in their personality and other shortcomings than would non-submissive people do.



lally2 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:42:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

I am a submissive woman. I have been since birth, but had a happy vanilla marriage when I was younger which produced my beautiful, wonderful, now adult sons. We stayed married as long as the preacher told us to, and I never sought another vanilla relationship after that, because I am a submissive woman, and by then I knew I was not the only one in the world, and it was possible to meet Dominant men.

Early in my path as a sub, I had a Top or two (referring to their role in my life, not making a judgment about their Dominance. They simply were not a Master to me, only a Top) ask me to top them, sometimes very mildly. a little later, I had partners ask me to Top other women. I am capable of neither. I do not have a Dominant bone in my body.

In addition to being submissive, I am mentally ill, past forty, fat, and balding, and, as my last two attempts taught me, no longer suitable for breeding. I have odd ideas about Religion, Philosophy, Science, Child rearing, Literature, Art, Politics, and everything else that matters, and I am damned opinionated about it, too. I talk too much and sometimes too loudly.oh, and as was pointed out in a recent thread, my spelling sucks eggs. Plus, I am not a great lover of animals in the house. I am waiting with great impatience for grandchildren, and am extremely active with my family and my church - a deal breaker for many Doms. I have other disabilities which limit certain play activities. I am not a suitable partner for most people - but, in my opinion, no one is a suitable partner for MOST people, and I am only interested in finding those with whom I am a good match.

None the less, I am warm, sweet, sympathetic, great with kids, a great cook, intelligent, a great conversationalist, witty, with a great sense of humor, a sparkling personality, and a zest for life. For someone I am the perfect slave. I like to get beaten on now and then, rather severely being my preference - but there is nothing wrong with my self esteem. Where exactly did you you get the idea that 'many' subs have low self esteem?


great post [:)]!

i think low self esteem is a bit of a mixed bag for some people.  it seems to be the catchall title for anyone who is a little reticent, not overly self confident and unlikely to be the one who steps forward in a crowd.  the antithesis of that of course is someone (a bit like me) who is reticent, not overly self confident and yet could lead a pub crawl of girlfriends through valhalla.

i would say unequivocally that i have self esteem issues to the point where i have ruined a perfectly good thing because i dont believe i have what they want.

i dont know how many would make up 'many' subs in relation to the percentages of subs at large and i do think its a value judgement made about subs thats largely inaccurate.  but we do exist.



VaguelyCurious -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:45:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

I got this idea by for example reading profiles of slaves and submissives who every now and then mention things like they are worthless or they want to be taken advantage of and similar things.
So your evidence for this assertion is an interpretation of the profiles of a bunch of strangers? It's never occurred to you that 'being taken advantage of' might be a hot fantasy for some? Or that saying 'I'm a worthless slut' on what is effectively a BDSM sex site doesn't necessarily equate to sincere feelings of worthlessness?

Given that you have had a go at me several times for taking you too literally I find this hard to swallow.



lally2 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:49:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

I agree tsatske gave a very beautiful confession.

quote:

Where exactly did you you get the idea that 'many' subs have low self esteem?


I got this idea by for example reading profiles of slaves and submissives who every now and then mention things like they are worthless or they want to be taken advantage of and similar things. Also, even those subs who never admit that they have issues with self-esteem tend to be quite self-conscious and much quicker to recognize bad sides in their personality and other shortcomings than would non-submissive people do.



(blue bit) you have to realise that whilst some of those actually do believe they are worthless and want to be taken advantage of, many are saying that because they consider it hot to say and believe it is what a prospective Dominant wants to see.

(red bit) i know of quite a few vanillas who are incredibly defacing and self depracating.

i dont think its wrong to assume that there are some submissives with self esteem issues but it would be dodgy for you to assume that its almost always the case.

whilst i admit to some self esteem issues, i still have enough self esteem to know what is good for me and what isnt and to make the right choices for me, i know when to stand up for myself and i can more than look after myself.

subs generally are not the fragile peices that some people think we are.  we are on the whole pretty clued up, strong and self realised.



SocratesNot -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:54:06 PM)

quote:

So your evidence for this assertion is an interpretation of the profiles of a bunch of strangers? It's never occurred to you that 'being taken advantage of' might be a hot fantasy for some? Or that saying 'I'm a worthless slut' on what is effectively a BDSM sex site doesn't necessarily equate to sincere feelings of worthlessness?


It is actually very confusing. Both things can exist in the same person at the same time. They can both have a fantasy of being taken advantage of and fetish for being called worthless etc on one side, and real self-esteem issues on the other side.
It is possible that the fantasy originated in their mind as a means of dealing with real underlying feelings of inadequacy, which of course doesn't have to be the case, but it is quite plausible.



laurell3 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 3:57:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

I agree tsatske gave a very beautiful confession.

quote:

Where exactly did you you get the idea that 'many' subs have low self esteem?


I got this idea by for example reading profiles of slaves and submissives who every now and then mention things like they are worthless or they want to be taken advantage of and similar things. Also, even those subs who never admit that they have issues with self-esteem tend to be quite self-conscious and much quicker to recognize bad sides in their personality and other shortcomings than would non-submissive people do.


So as the two ladies above have demonstrated, and tsatske attempted to, (which you acknowlege as good but miss the point), we all have self-esteem issues. Everyone that walks the planet has something that they are not confident about. Some things they maybe shouldn't be confident about, things they are working on, things they regret, etc. Your assumption that subs fall into some class that is debilitated because of those issues is neither rational nor supported by merely reading profiles on bdsm sites.

It is very confusing because once again, your approach, your Dr. Spock black and white theories do not apply to living human beings.

Recognizing bad sides in your personality quicker isn't necessarily a lack of self-esteem, it is what adults do when they own up to the fact that they have stuff to work on and have faults. I have tons of things I worry about every day, I am the first to criticise myself for faults, but yet, I don't come close to falling into your class of subs that would need any assistance to be assertive and perform in leadership roles every day. I will also tell you that yes, I am a nasty, worthless, dirty whore for the right guy. Do I lack self-esteem? It's just not that simple. You paint a negative brush on an entire class of people without any understanding of the individuals as a whole.




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