RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant?

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (Full Version)

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VaguelyCurious -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 6:48:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jbcurious VC...I can "Domme up" for the take over... as long as I have cough someone to submit to...[;)] I'm sure that can be arranged ;-)

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 6:52:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Rochsub, your sarcasm got in between the JB/VC lovefest. I'm going to assume it was an accident this time. Don't let it happen again Yes Ma'am. So very sorry.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 6:54:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 Yes Ma'am. So very sorry. [:D]

catize -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 7:28:15 PM)
Here's an idea; you can (really and truly!) look for someone who chooses to submit to you but already is quite capable of taking care of herself, who is in control of her own life. That way, you don't have to try to “fix” her. The truth is, you cannot be therapist to someone who you have an emotional attachment. It just doesn't work very well. I often wonder where the belief comes from that all submissive folk are basket cases in need of basic life lesson from a dominant You might ask yourself how did they manage to survive and thrive without you all these years?

Hawkwindblues -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 9:22:01 PM)
I would like to thank catize for her wonderful and precise words, because in my experience there are well balanced human beings in all shades of wiitwd. The knight/knightress=dominant one myth and from there derived save/lifeguard relationships are not amusing to witness, which is the reason that i try not do it as best as possible.

tsatske -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/21/2010 10:50:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: DesFIP: I would make the world's worst top, stopping every moment to see if they were all right and apologizing for hurting them. If you are aware that they are enjoying the impact play and that you are actually pleasing them by hitting them, why would you feel the need to apologize? I can't answer for anyone else, of course, only for myself. Yes. I can not hit someone hard enough for them to enjoy it anyway, and in attempts in the past to service top, have ended up in a puddle of tears. It is not something that every slave is capable of. I even get ansy and annoyed when my Master is on His knees for good reason, like to look for a pen that rolled under his desk - I offer to do it myself, artheretic knees be damned, if he'll just get up off his knees! And to answer the 'why are people offended if I say something broadly generalizing and wrong' statement - after all, your not calling anyone a bad person..... generalizations are offensive. Eating fried chicken does not make you a bad person. I myself love fried chicken, and it doesn't make me a bad person, just a fat one. But saying 'All Black people love fried chicken' will annoy some people. Same kind of thing, here.

lally2 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 2:43:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize Here's an idea; you can (really and truly!) look for someone who chooses to submit to you but already is quite capable of taking care of herself, who is in control of her own life. That way, you don't have to try to “fix” her. The truth is, you cannot be therapist to someone who you have an emotional attachment. It just doesn't work very well. I often wonder where the belief comes from that all submissive folk are basket cases in need of basic life lesson from a dominant You might ask yourself how did they manage to survive and thrive without you all these years? i think its a comfort zone for some people - if they see us as weak, helpless, amorphous beings then they stand a greater chance of impressing us. i do think sometimes that the term 'sub' is synonymous with mindless blimps who will follow blindly out of shere gratitude - hence the 'youre not submissive' when the sub refuses to take shit and tells them to fuck off.

SocratesNot -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 3:30:36 AM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: DesFIP: I would make the world's worst top, stopping every moment to see if they were all right and apologizing for hurting them. If you are aware that they are enjoying the impact play and that you are actually pleasing them by hitting them, why would you feel the need to apologize? I can't answer for anyone else, of course, only for myself. Yes. I can not hit someone hard enough for them to enjoy it anyway, and in attempts in the past to service top, have ended up in a puddle of tears. It is not something that every slave is capable of. I even get ansy and annoyed when my Master is on His knees for good reason, like to look for a pen that rolled under his desk - I offer to do it myself, artheretic knees be damned, if he'll just get up off his knees! This is extremely interesting. Even though you love to be hit and have a personal experience of enjoying it, there is something deep into your psyche that tells you that hitting another person so that it hurts is just wrong. If you didn't have this belief (of which you are maybe not even aware) you would have no problem whatsoever to hit your Master. But you do have a HUGE problem hitting him, even if he wanted it and enjoyed it. I am quite sure that you think deep down that it is wrong to hit a person, no matter what are the circumstances or their wants and needs. At the same time you have no problem whatsoever being hit. Which means that you think the following: Some people should always be respected and revered and never treated wrongly, not even if this is their desire (for example your Master), and some other people can (and maybe even deserve to) be treated wrongly (for example, you). Which then means that some people are simply more worthy, more valuable and have more human dignity than some other people, and you do not belong to this group. Which, after such analyses shows that I was not so terribly wrong when I assumed that subs "quite often" have the issues with self-esteem. Of course, I still believe and hope, that this happens only in minority of situations, and that most of them want to be submissive in relationships for completely different reasons.

DesFIP -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 6:22:33 AM)
Why do you assume that a consensual spanking is treating someone wrongly? It isn't. I enjoy it. I'm glad he likes doing it. But I'm still not capable of doing it myself. I absolutely hate it if I have to discipline my kids even though they may need it. I do my damnedest to find other ways of handling the situation, usually involving talking them to death and announcing we need to spread gravel/cut wood/etc. Something that needs to be done but is time consuming and a lot of unpleasant work. And I am not allowed to revere The Man. He finds that to be setting up a major problem in the relationship down the road. He knows he is human and fallible and that being revered would prevent me from helping him to avoid problems. I'm supposed to tell him when he's going about things the wrong way so we don't waste time, money etc on doing it like that and then have a worse problem we need to fix later on. What you see as most subs having self esteem issues is something you're seeing because you're looking to find that. Most people I know have self esteem issues if you dig hard enough. You were a fat kid in school? You have self esteem issues over weight even if you're a size 6 now. You were skinny and made fun of in school? You still have self esteem issues about your looks even though you're now a supermodel (read interviews with them, this is so common). You had a French teacher who derided you about your inability to speak it properly? You avoid French restaurants now. This isn't a sub thing, it's a people thing. You want it to be a sub thing for your own needs. And I don't believe anyone ought to be revered or automatically respected. It's earned. You don't earn it, you don't get it.

lally2 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 6:33:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot . there is something deep into your psyche that tells you that hitting another person so that it hurts is just wrong. If you didn't have this belief (of which you are maybe not even aware) you would have no problem whatsoever to hit your Master. But you do have a HUGE problem hitting him, even if he wanted it and enjoyed it. I am quite sure that you think deep down that it is wrong to hit a person, no matter what are the circumstances or their wants and needs. At the same time you have no problem whatsoever being hit. Which means that you think the following: Some people should always be respected and revered and never treated wrongly, not even if this is their desire (for example your Master), and some other people can (and maybe even deserve to) be treated wrongly (for example, you). Which then means that some people are simply more worthy, more valuable and have more human dignity than some other people, and you do not belong to this group. Which, after such analyses shows that I was not so terribly wrong when I assumed that subs "quite often" have the issues with self-esteem. Of course, I still believe and hope, that this happens only in minority of situations, and that most of them want to be submissive in relationships for completely different reasons. thats not it at all. i dont see it as being treated wrongly, why would i when i want to be overwhelmed and spanked/tied up/controlled by the man who wants to do those things to me and it gives him pleasure to do so - he knows it fills something in me and i know it satiates something in his core. i dont wish to take a dominant position with my partner thats all. the dynamic is that he is the one that takes control, makes the decisions by and large and is the one who tips me over his knee when he feels like it not the other way around. i would feel uncomfortable putting the man i am submissive to in a position that would fly in the face of who we are to each other thats all - it has nothing to do with 'deserving' or 'being treated wrongly' if that is what you believe then you are seriously misguided here.

SocratesNot -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 6:38:07 AM)
quote: Why do you assume that a consensual spanking is treating someone wrongly? It isn't. I enjoy it. I'm glad he likes doing it. But I'm still not capable of doing it myself. I absolutely hate it if I have to discipline my kids even though they may need it. I do my damnedest to find other ways of handling the situation, usually involving talking them to death and announcing we need to spread gravel/cut wood/etc. Something that needs to be done but is time consuming and a lot of unpleasant work. And I am not allowed to revere The Man. He finds that to be setting up a major problem in the relationship down the road. He knows he is human and fallible and that being revered would prevent me from helping him to avoid problems. I'm supposed to tell him when he's going about things the wrong way so we don't waste time, money etc on doing it like that and then have a worse problem we need to fix later on. What you see as most subs having self esteem issues is something you're seeing because you're looking to find that. Most people I know have self esteem issues if you dig hard enough. You were a fat kid in school? You have self esteem issues over weight even if you're a size 6 now. You were skinny and made fun of in school? You still have self esteem issues about your looks even though you're now a supermodel (read interviews with them, this is so common). You had a French teacher who derided you about your inability to speak it properly? You avoid French restaurants now. This isn't a sub thing, it's a people thing. You want it to be a sub thing for your own needs. And I don't believe anyone ought to be revered or automatically respected. It's earned. You don't earn it, you don't get it. OK, this clarified many things. I tend to agree with you. Maybe I just saw this "people thing" just a little more present in subs. The point is not that it is only sub thing. Of course that it is people thing. However, these very issues of self-esteem may just be one of the many things that cause someone to be submissive or that form the submissive mindset, along with many other factors.

lally2 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 6:50:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot .OK, this clarified many things. I tend to agree with you. Maybe I just saw this "people thing" just a little more present in subs. The point is not that it is only sub thing. Of course that it is people thing. However, these very issues of self-esteem may just be one of the many things that cause someone to be submissive or that form the submissive mindset, along with many other factors. im begining to think that you have self esteem issues or believe you have to explain away to youreself the switch tendencies you have and by plonking self esteem issues on subs you can sit more comfortably with youreself. just read around the boards and see how proud many subs are about their Dominants, how they love to talk about them, share them with us - there is no low self esteem going on there, its pride, happyness, fulfillment and love in many cases. you keep youre self esteem issues mate and stop landing them on us. ive lost patience now. good luck

leadership527 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 7:21:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Also, I think there must be some internal cause of their submissiveness. Low self esteem seems like a very logical explanation. OK. So in your head, you are equating a submissive nature with some sort of maladjustment. I'll give you that one since it's actually extremely common both in BDSM circles and vanilla. I see here it constantly. But what you need to do is seriously think it through. Consider it objectively, ignoring the bias that society gives us concerning how wonderful it is to be #1. Think in terms of "being happy through one's life". Then tell me why, exactly, it is a maladjustment to be submissive... even generally submissive to pretty much everyone as Carol is. quote: Apart from that, I don't get it why are people so easily offended by some statements. Well, in this particular case, because you just suggested that the woman I love must have some sort of mental illness because she happens to look at the world submissively. By a wide variety of different numbers, the reverse would actually be true. It's not all that hard to make a case for a dominant personality being the maladjusted version of humanity. I'll leave the actual thinking on that to you. I strongly suggest that before you try this, you do a bit of reading on what, exactly dominance and submission are... reading in scientific texts, not BDSM web sites. quote: I said this whole thing in context of practices that might help them be more assertive, and not make fun of them because of some possible issues with self esteem or anything similar. And you don't see why I'd take offense at your completely uneducated and ridiculous notion that you can offer up some sage advice to help me fix my wife? Think harder. But aside from that, I have to admit, it isn't so much this particular thread just as the sheer number of utterly ridiculous things you've said that have caused me to lose patience. It's not just your original posts... it's your utter refusal to listen to the answers that people give you. here's a tip for you... LuckyAlabatross gave you the answer to your question in post #2 on this thread... that'd be the one directly below your OP. Did you read it? It was only 2 lines long.

zenny -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 7:29:19 AM)
Different locus of control is also a very reasonable explanation but it doesn't really matter. It is hardly ever so cut and dry.

jbcurious -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 7:31:12 AM)
How about the fact that it simply makes us happy and content to be submissive that it's what fulfills us as people, just as being Dominant is fulfilling to the person in that role. My marriage failed because my husband wanted me to be the person in charge...am I capable of that? Yes. Does it fulfill me and make me happy? No. Did it make me feel more valuble as a person to be in charge? No. Get it through your head.... that in my submission is where I feel value, not in my ability to take charge.

leadership527 -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 7:32:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jbcurious Get it through your head.... that in my submission is where I feel value, not in my ability to take charge. Don't worry jb... I'm sure we can fix that for you.

SocratesNot -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 7:35:18 AM)
Yes I 've read it, and responded to it. I think that most of you her underestimate the number of people who really have issues with depression, self esteem, self image etc. Most of them never try BDSM at all. But also, there are probably many submissives who are recruited from these groups of people. My intent was not to offend anyone at all. My intent was only to suggest that it might be a good thing to help someone with such issues if she happens to be your submissive. Most of people who are depressed aren't even aware of this fact. Most of them who are aware, would never admit it, because they don't want to be considered mentally ill. There is much more negativity hidden behind "all are happy, all is good" situation which is manifested on the surface. My friend and I conducted a research on depression in high school and we concluded that it might be the case that maybe even 30-40% of young people are depressed. As a dominant I would try to heal these wounds in my sub if they were present. I would try to lead her to develop a stronger personality on her own. I wouldn't direct her much at all. I would try to unleash her own natural strength that was probably been repressed for years by strict parents, bullies at school, or abusive partners.

Jeffff -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 7:37:01 AM)
You're kinda a douche aren't you? No wonder Rochsub hates you.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 7:39:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot As a dominant I would try to heal these wounds in my sub if they were present. I would try to lead her to develop a stronger personality on her own. I wouldn't direct her much at all. I would try to unleash her own natural strength that was probably been repressed for years by strict parents, bullies at school, or abusive partners. All these poor little submissive types, thank goodness we have dominants to fix us up and make us better people, we would be fucked without them

Jeffff -> RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant? (5/22/2010 7:42:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally All these poor little submissive types, thank goodness we have dominants to fix us up and make us better people, we would be fucked without them Well what would be the point of THAT?...........[8D]

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