RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 7:16:45 AM)

Good!!!!! I think we got some empty prisons around not being used because we can't afford to pay the 10s to 100s of thousands (with no input to the economy or social wellbeing from them) it cost to house criminals now, so they are being let out early across this country, and besides, who needs a birthright when you are a sovereign anyway if you ignore the constitution?

The 'conservatives' will borrow to pay for this infallible way to make people criminals from birth (because they are gonna be anyway, and then that will be their answer to socialism and healthcare).

Tax and spend
Borrow and spend

The question you have to ask yourself, are you a real american?  If so, vote number two, if you are a socialist, we already know you are going to go for number one.




DomKen -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 9:06:28 AM)

I'm all in favor of this as long as it is made retroactive all the way back to 1776 and only people who can prove they would be citizens under the new law vote for it. Of course its highly unlikely that more than a handful of congresscritters could prove they would qualify.




Elisabella -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 9:10:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm all in favor of this as long as it is made retroactive all the way back to 1776 and only people who can prove they would be citizens under the new law vote for it. Of course its highly unlikely that more than a handful of congresscritters could prove they would qualify.


That wouldn't be too difficult, unless all of a person's ancestors immigrated illegally. Being born in the US to a naturalized citizen would carry just as much weight as being born in the US to a natural born citizen.




DomKen -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 9:30:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm all in favor of this as long as it is made retroactive all the way back to 1776 and only people who can prove they would be citizens under the new law vote for it. Of course its highly unlikely that more than a handful of congresscritters could prove they would qualify.


That wouldn't be too difficult, unless all of a person's ancestors immigrated illegally. Being born in the US to a naturalized citizen would carry just as much weight as being born in the US to a natural born citizen.

Incorrect. Virtually every immigrant came without a visa. That is what Ellis Island and the other immigration centers were for. They evaluated which illegal aliens were admitted and which weren't. If you had a visa you didn't have to go through all that. Therefore virtually every present US citizen would lose their citizenship by dent of descent from at least one non citizen.




popeye1250 -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 11:14:18 AM)

Rule, no big surprise here, probably 90% of Americans want this gone.
It's not even a loophole.
If a couple from a foreign country posted in Washington at their country's embassey has a child here that child assumes the citizenship of it's parents home country not the U.S. And they're in the U.S. Legally!
How would it follow that if a couple or woman sneaks into the U.S. and has a child that that child would assume U.S. citizenship?
How is that even a "loophole?"
Three or four years ago Ireland did away with this, now *both parents* have to be in the country legally for any offspring to assume Irish Citizenship. And the Irish People voted on it in the national election and it came out 80% to 20% and Ireland is a very liberal country.
We need to end this nonsense and we need to make it retroactive back to 1986 when we had that "one-time amnesty" which they never should have done in the first place!




tazzygirl -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 11:30:41 AM)

I agree with the proposal. No more legal citizenship for those who are born to illegals.

However, i do not agree with stripping away with what we gave to those who are legal at this point. We gave these children legal citizenship, right or wrong. They have done nothing to lose said citizenship, beyond being born to illegals. The error, i feel, was ours in the giving. But once given, it cannot be stripped except by the terms of the constitution.




popeye1250 -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 11:33:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I agree with the proposal. No more legal citizenship for those who are born to illegals.

However, i do not agree with stripping away with what we gave to those who are legal at this point. We gave these children legal citizenship, right or wrong. They have done nothing to lose said citizenship, beyond being born to illegals. The error, i feel, was ours in the giving. But once given, it cannot be stripped except by the terms of the constitution.


Tazzy, I disagree, we didn't "give" them U.S. Citizenship.




tazzygirl -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 11:35:14 AM)

But... we did.

Once granted, what are the ways to lose said citizenship?

Can the government just take it away?

Or does the individual have to do something to lose it?




popeye1250 -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 11:41:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

But... we did.

Once granted, what are the ways to lose said citizenship?

Can the government just take it away?

Or does the individual have to do something to lose it?


Tazzy, it wasn't "granted."
What's to stop a Dr. or Midwife upon learning the status of the parents from not issueing or signing a birth certificate?
Legal naturalized citizens have to go through years of jumping through hoops, all illegal aliens have to do is sneak into a foreign country and have a kid?
The 14th Amendment was drafted in 1868 to give full citizenship to freed slaves. It doesn't say anything about "granting" citizenship to the children of illegal aliens.




THELADY -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 11:45:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm all in favor of this as long as it is made retroactive all the way back to 1776 and only people who can prove they would be citizens under the new law vote for it. Of course its highly unlikely that more than a handful of congresscritters could prove they would qualify.


That wouldn't be too difficult, unless all of a person's ancestors immigrated illegally. Being born in the US to a naturalized citizen would carry just as much weight as being born in the US to a natural born citizen.

Incorrect. Virtually every immigrant came without a visa. That is what Ellis Island and the other immigration centers were for. They evaluated which illegal aliens were admitted and which weren't. If you had a visa you didn't have to go through all that. Therefore virtually every present US citizen would lose their citizenship by dent of descent from at least one non citizen.


WRONG!  go read the history of Ellis island, all people in 3rd class went through Ellis island and if their paper work was in order and they were in good health the process took a couple hours. And not all immigrants came thru there, that was just the major port!


http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/ellis_island_history.asp

The Ar. law is  not raciest or out of line, it parrots the federal laws. Go read it, its only ten pages!  And if anyone read the emails the article was based on they would know the people were not talking about retroactive. AND the federal law says anyone born to a "legal resident" NOT to anyone born here, it specifically says the law does not apply to " foreigners or aliens"  MUCH LESS illegal aliens... ..... !!
I cannot believe so many people parrot what they read in the media and repeat it as gospel!
I cannot believe everyone of the democrats gave a standing ovation to for the Mexican president as he questioned Arizona for  infringing on Mexican human rights by trying to enforce our sovereignty, he put down Arizona and the democrats clapped!  . In Mexico no one stays if they are found with out proper papers and the Mexican police and military check all foreigners often!!
I can not believe people don't think we should preserve our sovereignty and enforce our laws!

America is the greatest country in the world as we know it. More people apply to move here than any other country in the world. I have read stories of people who have moved to another country so they could apply to enter the U.S. .........people even break the law to come here. I have been to other countries, studied history, lived in other countries,,,,,,,,I don't blame them for wanting to come here!!
We should not let a group who controls  the government and the press to tell us we are bad. We should not allow a group who controls the government who apologizes and condemn us for our "sins", both past and present! 
The U.S.A. is not perfect, perfect does not exist, BUT we do live in the best that there is!  There will always be raciest, but don't go calling someone raciest for wanting to protect what is theirs! Dont call them raciests for disagreeing with a point of view. And, get your facts straight before you condemn!!

Our country is in trouble, we can not afford to keep giving our money away.......if the government put a 100 percent tax on the rich (those making above 250)  it would not be enough to pay for all the spending being done right now.......how much are u willing to pay to protect everyone in the  world who wants to come live here, cos eventually everyone who works will pay weather thru payroll taxes or the VAT tax, we all will pay!!!








DomKen -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 11:48:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: THELADY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm all in favor of this as long as it is made retroactive all the way back to 1776 and only people who can prove they would be citizens under the new law vote for it. Of course its highly unlikely that more than a handful of congresscritters could prove they would qualify.


That wouldn't be too difficult, unless all of a person's ancestors immigrated illegally. Being born in the US to a naturalized citizen would carry just as much weight as being born in the US to a natural born citizen.

Incorrect. Virtually every immigrant came without a visa. That is what Ellis Island and the other immigration centers were for. They evaluated which illegal aliens were admitted and which weren't. If you had a visa you didn't have to go through all that. Therefore virtually every present US citizen would lose their citizenship by dent of descent from at least one non citizen.


WRONG!  go read the history of Ellis island, all people in 3rd class went through Ellis island and if their paper work was in order and they were in good health the process took a couple hours. And not all immigrants came thru there, that was just the major port!


http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/ellis_island_history.asp

All people in 3rd class. Not all people. Your own source shows you are incorrect.




popeye1250 -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 12:00:23 PM)

Thelady, I agree, it was *fucking disgusting* to see the dems jump to their feet for that POS.
Boy, they are going to P-A-Y for that in November!!!
Anyone running against them should have a big blown up picture of that with their psychophantic, bootlicking opponent circled for all the voters to see!
Who are they *working for?"
I can imagine if you got them *alone* they'd be saying things like; "Oh,...no, I didn't jump up!" "That wasn't me!"
The president of Mexico, a fourth world narco country in name only who has cost the U.S. probably a trillion dollars over the last 20 years and killed hundreds of thousands of American citizens with drugs and violence and these fucking CRETINS are puckering up probably pushing each other out of the way salivating to lick his balls and anal orifice!
Can I get a "CUM-BAY-AHH!!!???"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YobJc5cnk68




THELADY -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 12:31:56 PM)

Amen My American brother!




Fellow -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 12:52:41 PM)

quote:

Why?

If you are born here why would you not be considered a citizen?

What requirements would you put on it?


I would require at least one parent to be either permanent resident or a citizen. It would end "the birth tourism", people who do not contribute or have no loyalty to US taking advantage of certain privileges US citizenship gives. Birth tourism by the way costs California (medical facilities) millions of dollars per year.




Musicmystery -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 12:54:26 PM)

But again, this would make the child a criminal by birth.





DesFIP -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 12:55:20 PM)

Can we start with the author of the law? Just saying...




pahunkboy -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 1:00:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

But again, this would make the child a criminal by birth.





Now we are getting somewhere.

That is what RO is trying to say all along!




Musicmystery -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 2:17:38 PM)

The difference is--I think that would be a bad thing.




tazzygirl -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 2:17:50 PM)

A child is not a criminal. The child committed no crime. The law allows the child to be a citizen of the US simply by being born here.

quote:

Tazzy, it wasn't "granted."
What's to stop a Dr. or Midwife upon learning the status of the parents from not issueing or signing a birth certificate?
Legal naturalized citizens have to go through years of jumping through hoops, all illegal aliens have to do is sneak into a foreign country and have a kid?
The 14th Amendment was drafted in 1868 to give full citizenship to freed slaves. It doesn't say anything about "granting" citizenship to the children of illegal aliens.


And Drs have no choice but to sign off on the birth certificate. They cannot refuse.

quote:

Penalties
It is a Class A misdemeanor if a person knowingly discloses the medical or health information, or knowingly induces or causes another to disclose information. It is a Class C misdemeanor if a person refuses or fails to furnish any correct information in the person’s possession affecting a certificate. It is also a Class C misdemeanor if a person fails, neglects, or refuses to fill out and file a birth certificate with TER, the local registrar or deliver the certificate upon request to the person with the duty to file it. To falsely obtain, use, or alter another person’s Certificate of Birth is a third degree felony.


http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=Doctors+refusing+to+sign+birth+certificates&fr=slv8-iobit&u=www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/handbooks/birth/birth1.doc&w=doctors+doctor+doctor%27s+refusing+refuse+refuses+sign+birth+certificates+certificate&d=DV51HO8_UuR-&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=L8Q5P.84_rkR9BiWbx5yjQ--


I doubt any Dr wants to deal with this issue.

quote:

Tazzy, it wasn't "granted."


quote:

The United States follows the principle of jus soli, which automatically gives U.S. citizenship to all persons born inside the United States. This rule does not apply to the children of certain foreign diplomats in the United States but it generally applies to everyone else.


http://www.ansarilawfirm.com/index.cfm/hurl/obj=554/USCitizenshipbyBirthDerivativeUSCitizenship.cfm

"Anchor baby" is a term used by immigration reductionists in the United States to describe a child born in the U.S. to illegal aliens. It is generally used as a derogatory reference to the supposed role of the child, who as a U.S. citizen through the legal principle of jus soli, may facilitate immigration for relatives through family reunification under the provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.[1][2][3][4][5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor_baby

quote:

The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution reads, in pertinent part, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." This makes citizens of all persons born in the United States, provided they are subject to U.S. jurisdiction at the time of their birth - that is, they are not the children of foreign diplomats and like persons who, having diplomatic immunity, are not subject to U.S. jurisdiction while they are in the country for diplomatic purposes.

At the time the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified (1868), it excluded Aboriginal Americans because they were not considered subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and, thus, were not American citizens. Congress declared it policy to extend citizenship to all Aboriginal peoples in 1924, which was realized in 1968 with the Indian Civil Rights Act.[9]

This interpretation of "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States was formally established in 1898 by a 6-2 decision the Supreme Court in United States v. Wong Kim Ark 169 U.S. 649 (1898). In that case, the Court found the petitioner had been born in the United States and therefore became a U.S. citizen. This could not be revoked because his parents were not American citizens at the time of his birth, or because they made several trips to China after it.[10]

However, the Supreme Court has never explicitly ruled on whether children born in the United States to illegal immigrant parents are entitled to birthright citizenship via the 14th Amendment,[11] although it is generally assumed that they are.[12] Heightened concern over illegal immigration to the United States has prompted some moves to abolish jus soli,[2][13] but these have so far failed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

As such, their citizenship is granted, and protected, by law. Retroactive removal of said citizenship would be challenged quickly, and upheld by the Supreme Court.




subrob1967 -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 2:41:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Funny how those like you, who regard their Second Amendment rights as gospel, find it easy to pick and choose the rest of the Constitution.



You guys have already shit all over the second amendment which is in the bill of rights, unlike the 14th amendment, so why not shit on the 14th too?
When the 14th was written, I really doubt they had illegal border crashers in mind.




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