RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship

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Musicmystery -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 2:45:37 PM)
quote: You guys have already shit all over the second amendment How do you figure that?

tazzygirl -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 2:54:15 PM)
Jus soli As of 2006[update], United States Federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1401) defines ten categories of person who are United States citizens from birth. According to that law the following acquire citizenship by jus soli: "a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" "a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe" (see Indian Citizenship Act of 1924). "a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States" "a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States_of_America The latest interpretation by the Courts say differently.

cuckoldmepls -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 3:04:33 PM)
Well think about it. Why should people who are here illegally receive any benefits what so ever including an anchor baby? It's a $5,000 fine and deportation for crossing the border illegally, and yet a small percentage of people want to reward them and make us pay for their health care and welfare. The bottom line is this. If they aren't here legally or their parents are not legal citizens, then they should not be legal citizens. If someone from France has a baby here while on vacation, should that child be an American citizen. Not hardly. By the way, they keep arguing that they benefit our economy, but when you add up the costs, there is no possible way they can benefit us. Common sense will tell you that if they can't provide for their own family in every way, shape, and form, then they are a liability to us. I would say at least 50% of them are on welfare, another 30% don't make enough to pay taxes, and only 20% probably do pay taxes. Well 20% of 17% of the population is not anything to brag about especially considering the other 80%. http://babelishere.webs.com/aware.html

tazzygirl -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 3:07:47 PM)
quote: The bottom line is this. If they aren't here legally or their parents are not legal citizens, then they should not be legal citizens. If someone from France has a baby here while on vacation, should that child be an American citizen. Not hardly. Should? No. Do? yes. As the law is written, unless one is a foreign dignitary, the child is a US citizen. As for the rest, i dont have figures. If you do, beyond babel, i would like to see your source. Many illegals also work under the tables. The figures quoted most often are those who do pay taxes or are on welfare. How many arent doing either?

THELADY -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 3:13:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: THELADY quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I'm all in favor of this as long as it is made retroactive all the way back to 1776 and only people who can prove they would be citizens under the new law vote for it. Of course its highly unlikely that more than a handful of congresscritters could prove they would qualify. That wouldn't be too difficult, unless all of a person's ancestors immigrated illegally. Being born in the US to a naturalized citizen would carry just as much weight as being born in the US to a natural born citizen. Incorrect. Virtually every immigrant came without a visa. That is what Ellis Island and the other immigration centers were for. They evaluated which illegal aliens were admitted and which weren't. If you had a visa you didn't have to go through all that. Therefore virtually every present US citizen would lose their citizenship by dent of descent from at least one non citizen. WRONG! go read the history of Ellis island, all people in 3rd class went through Ellis island and if their paper work was in order and they were in good health the process took a couple hours. And not all immigrants came thru there, that was just the major port! http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/ellis_island_history.asp All people in 3rd class. Not all people. Your own source shows you are incorrect. what are you talking about Domken? My source says and I quote "First and second class passengers who arrived in New York Harbor were not required to undergo the inspection process at Ellis Island. Instead, these passengers underwent a cursory inspection aboard ship; the theory being that if a person could afford to purchase a first or second class ticket, they were less likely to become a public charge in America due to medical or legal reasons. The Federal government felt that these more affluent passengers would not end up in institutions, hospitals or become a burden to the state. However, first and second class passengers were sent to Ellis Island for further inspection if they were sick or had legal problems. This scenario was far different for "steerage" or third class passengers. These immigrants traveled in crowded and often unsanitary conditions near the bottom of steamships with few amenities, often spending up to two weeks seasick in their bunks during rough Atlantic Ocean crossings. Upon arrival in New York City, ships would dock at the Hudson or East River piers. First and second class passengers would disembark, pass through Customs at the piers and were free to enter the United States. The steerage and third class passengers were transported from the pier by ferry or barge to Ellis Island where everyone would undergo a medical and legal inspection. If the immigrant's papers were in order and they were in reasonably good health, the Ellis Island inspection process would last approximately three to five hours." I never said all people,,,, I even said not all people went to Ellis........but all who came in to that port were subject to it(ie if u were second class and ill.....)....get ur facts straight! I bet u would believe if cbs reported it but u wont take the time to read the official history of Ellis island and then tell Me I was wrong!! get real!!

tazzygirl -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 3:18:10 PM)
"U"? im sorry, you seem like an intelligent woman, but its not coming across.

Musicmystery -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 3:21:14 PM)
quote: Well think about it. OK. The parents have committed a crime. The child has not. quote: By the way, they keep arguing that they benefit our economy, but when you add up the costs, there is no possible way they can benefit us. Common sense will tell you that if they can't provide for their own family in every way, shape, and form, then they are a liability to us. I would say at least 50% of them are on welfare, another 30% don't make enough to pay taxes, and only 20% probably do pay taxes. Well 20% of 17% of the population is not anything to brag about especially considering the other 80%. You do get that making up data doesn't replace actual facts, don't you? At least you acknowledged they're invented. Who's arguing they benefit us? Common sense---and the ACTUAL research---will tell you they are not a drain on resources you've alleged, precisely because illegals (rather than applying for benefits) keep a very low profile, are generally in strong health (hard to cross the desert otherwise), and do work that's open because other people aren't filling those positions (or the employers have circumvented the law, and should be held liable), and in fact make a net contribution to the economy. No, that doesn't mean it's something the economy needs (not a significant factor), or that it's labor the economy should rely on, but the charge that illegals are bleeding us dry is fiction.

popeye1250 -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 3:56:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: Well think about it. OK. The parents have committed a crime. The child has not. quote: By the way, they keep arguing that they benefit our economy, but when you add up the costs, there is no possible way they can benefit us. Common sense will tell you that if they can't provide for their own family in every way, shape, and form, then they are a liability to us. I would say at least 50% of them are on welfare, another 30% don't make enough to pay taxes, and only 20% probably do pay taxes. Well 20% of 17% of the population is not anything to brag about especially considering the other 80%. You do get that making up data doesn't replace actual facts, don't you? At least you acknowledged they're invented. Who's arguing they benefit us? Common sense---and the ACTUAL research---will tell you they are not a drain on resources you've alleged, precisely because illegals (rather than applying for benefits) keep a very low profile, are generally in strong health (hard to cross the desert otherwise), and do work that's open because other people aren't filling those positions (or the employers have circumvented the law, and should be held liable), and in fact make a net contribution to the economy. No, that doesn't mean it's something the economy needs (not a significant factor), or that it's labor the economy should rely on, but the charge that illegals are bleeding us dry is fiction. Music, noone knows how much illegal aliens and this "birthright citizenship" have cost us but it's surely in the trillions of dollars by now. Those people aren't comming here for altruistic reasons they're comming here to steal. The first thing they do after dropping a kid is to hit the welfare office and the social security office and anyplace else that gives out "free" stuff. If you don't "give" them things they won't come anymore. All those BALL-LICKING democrats must have forgotten that Mexico is the country who publishes phamplets for their citizens on how to sneak into the U.S. and steal our benefits! And those cunts in our congress side with Mexico over one of our own states!? I hope each and every one of them is identified in that Youtube clip and in the Press Corps stills and has their pictures used against them in November! The Norwegians had a good word for it in WW2, a "Quisling!"

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 4:15:14 PM)
I would like to ask that everyone posting to this thread go to your Local WIC office or your Welfare Office and just take note of the people there. Yes they come in all colors all shapes sizes and ages. I don't want you to focus on the race just the need. See the ammount of people seeking "Assistance" and when you see that number and realize that that money comes from people who pay taxes, who support our country regardless of which side the support. Now I want to ask, do you think it is fair that any person sitting there be there and benifit if they are ilegally in this country? Do you think it is right for Legal Citizens to not be able to get processed because these agencies are overrun with illegal citizens using Social Security Numbers that have been stolen through identity theft. And my biggest pet peeve, I have been told by an employee of the WIC center here that the Agency heads issued a statment at a meeting in February that said some people may notice repeating SS #'s and if the do "IGNORE IT" And Process them anyway. I wouldn't have such an issue if the money earned here legally or not STAYED in America but it doesn't, it's sent to Mexico where it does noting for our economy. Anchor Babies, well you know I am okay with offering Asylum but it should not be an Automatic Lottery just cause the made it across the border and popped out a kid. QSM

subrob1967 -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 5:42:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: You guys have already shit all over the second amendment How do you figure that? NYC, Chicago & San Francisco have made it illegal to own handguns, unless you meet quite stringent rules, and make it all but impossible to own long guns...I'd say that's shitting all over the 2nd amendment. I cannot own a automatic rifle, or a silenced rifle without expressed consent of the federal government, I'd say that's also shitting all over the second amendment.

cloudboy -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 6:01:27 PM)
People without status cannot get welfare benefits, and if they put themselves before government agencies, they expose themselves to removal by ICE. ------------ MYTH #3: The nation spends billions of dollars on welfare for undocumented immigrants. FACTS: To the contrary, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive any "welfare" benefits and even legal immigrants are severely restricted in the benefits they can receive. As the Congressional Research Service points out in a 2007 report, undocumented immigrants, who comprise nearly one-third of all immigrants in the country, are not eligible to receive public "welfare" benefits -- ever. Legal permanent residents (LPRs) must pay into the Social Security and Medicare systems for approximately 10 years before they are eligible to receive benefits when they retire. In most cases, LPRs can not receive SSI, which is available only to U.S. citizens, and are not eligible for means-tested public benefits until 5 years after receiving their green cards. A 2007 analysis of welfare data by researchers at the Urban Institute reveals that less than 1 percent of households headed by undocumented immigrants receive cash assistance for needy families, compared to 5 percent of households headed by native-born U.S. citizens. A 2007 analysis of U.S. Census data by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities makes clear that it is the U.S.-born, U.S.-citizen children of undocumented immigrants who are eligible for programs such as Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). The analysis found that, between 1995 and 2005, the share of low-income, non- citizen immigrant children (either undocumented or legally present) who received Medicaid or SCHIP dropped from 36 percent to 30 percent.

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 6:06:27 PM)
Yes cloudboy that is what is supposed to happen however if you live in an area that is popular with the Illegals you will see that what is supposed to happen and what actually happens are two very different things. QSM ETA: I consider Food Stamps and WIC Welfare. Government mandated programs that provide food, money, or property to people in my opinion is welfare

kdsub -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 6:16:15 PM)
I was looking here in the thread for good links on the subject but found none. So HERE is a good one that explains a lot about both sides of the argument. Butch

pahunkboy -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 6:17:18 PM)
And yet- I dare say- we gave trillions to Wall Street.

Musicmystery -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 9:05:10 PM)
quote: Music, noone knows how much illegal aliens and this "birthright citizenship" have cost us but it's surely in the trillions of dollars by now. How do you figure that? It's a made up number. quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy People without status cannot get welfare benefits, and if they put themselves before government agencies, they expose themselves to removal by ICE. Exactly.

tazzygirl -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 9:07:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy And yet- I dare say- we gave trillions to Wall Street. And how much have we gotten back?

housesub4you -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 9:10:23 PM)
He is not the guy who wrote the bill, it is some lame ass lawyer who wrote this and several others across the country.(which have all lost in court, and several places have fired him because of the mounting court cost and losing Funny thing though, the guy who did write the law put in a provision that if any part of the state did not follow the law the state of Az would pay all hos legal bills to make sure the law was enforced. But the less you know the more you vote GOP

domiguy -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 9:14:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow Ending birthright citizenship makes a lot of sense. I do not know any other country with such thing. It certainly can not be retroactive though. Why not, are you afraid that you would be considered an illegal?

tazzygirl -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 9:14:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy People without status cannot get welfare benefits, and if they put themselves before government agencies, they expose themselves to removal by ICE. Oh? Bid to end welfare for illegals KO’d Thursday, April 29, 2010 Beacon Hill lawmakers scuttled a Republican-proposed crackdown on public benefits for illegal aliens yesterday in a closer-than-expected vote that included significant Democratic support. “I think the political tide is turning in Massachusetts, whether it be the election of Scott Brown or this vote,” said Rep. Jeffrey D. Perry (R-Sandwich), who filed the budget amendment to screen illegals out of programs such as welfare, food stamps and public housing. http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view/20100429bid_to_end_welfare_for_illegals_kod/ If the fed government doesnt pay up, the responsibility shifts to the states. It costs money to determine, federally, if illegals are legal or not. The above article cites 6 bucks per application. Also to note... many people are eligible for welfare through the process of anchor babies... you know, the babies who are born here to illegal parents, the babies become automatic citizens, and if the parents fall beneath poverty level, they get welfare based upon the child.

laurell3 -> RE: Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship (5/22/2010 9:18:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan Yes cloudboy that is what is supposed to happen however if you live in an area that is popular with the Illegals you will see that what is supposed to happen and what actually happens are two very different things. QSM ETA: I consider Food Stamps and WIC Welfare. Government mandated programs that provide food, money, or property to people in my opinion is welfare Yep. We already have anti-alien laws in place in most states. They are not followed here at all that I can see at the state level. You do realize they are not going to be putting babies in a box and shipping them over right? These kids end up in foster care on our dime all the time. They aren't supposed to. The parents end up getting all types of services. They aren't supposed to. The federal spend-down funds for assistance are used to help illegal families constantly. I really highly doubt the states are going to change their approach to it either way.

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