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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 12:02:59 PM   
Lockit


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Status: offline 		I reacted to beardsly's post pretty strongly for two basic reasons. One, that submissive men were basically recreating a mommy/son relationship and therefore were submissive because they lacked something or were damaged somehow in their relationships with their mothers. Two, because of the dynamic's he expressed that had to be there that were a result of number one.

I don't believe that dominance or submission come with some dysfunction in life or life situations. I believe it is human nature and personality traits that can be influenced by life experiences, but is basically the nature/personality of the person. Could damage be a part of someone's submission or dominance... sure. But I want no part of dominance or submission that is caused by damage nor do I want an adult relationship that is based on dysfunctions.

Any dysfunction that is there is something I would be wanting some healing to, not something I played into and allowed to remain.

To describe submissive men as damaged, infantile, mommy's boy's or anything of the like is rather offensive in my opinion. For example, it is an opinion found in a lot of dominant males who think that submissive men are less manly and there is something wrong with them. It feeds into the social stigma's that are out there about submissive men that I absolutely hate! Not just for the men but also for me as a dominant woman. If submissive men are seen as faulty somehow, what does that say about their opinion of a dominant woman who loves relationships with them?

Some of this is like saying that a man who wasn't breast fed enough has a thing for breast! What about women who were never breast fed that do not have a thing for breast? I think it is a poor excuse/reasoning for something.

As for nurturing, they say that women are more nurturing and I would agree, but that doesn't mean that men cannot be nurturing or that people in general can't be nurturing. I know some women who are are not nurturing at all and some men who are very nurturing. Are we more or less womanly or manly based on a nurturing ability or lacks?

I am nurturing in situations that call for nurturing. That makes me compassionate, loving and aware. Not a mothering type that needs to mother because of something within myself or something lacking in another. I think all relationships should have some nurturing in them for each person. It's just a human factor.

My relationships are based on two healthy adults who may have a bit of life baggage, who decide to live certain dynamic's because we feel comfortable with them and they are an adult choice. They are not based on dysfunctions from the past that motivate or capitalize on any baggage or damage that might be there.




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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 12:14:07 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


The other weird analogy I adopt, outside of boss/employee, is SuperHero / Evil Vixen Bad Nemesis.  That is to say - my sub is super competent and smart and sexy, but I have kryptonite, and restraints, and even though he wants to stand up to me, he both fears and adores me. Oh well I guess that's mostly in the bedroom :)


Akasha



That one's my favourite. I wanna be Batman, waking up handcuffed in Catwoman's den. Phwoargh!! (She's got to be able to say 'Miaow' like Michelle Pfeiffer did in Batman 2, though. Obligatory.) As for the 'both fearing and adoring' bit, though . . . hard to get that but, hell, it'd be good if I could.


Not to derail my own thread, but apparently, you aren't the only one ;-) http://secret-identity.net/

- LA

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 12:18:41 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

To describe submissive men as damaged, infantile, mommy's boy's or anything of the like is rather offensive in my opinion.


I think this is the key Lockit. I've been around long enough to know there are some pretty damaged submissive men out there (as well as people in all other BDSM roles and even in the vanilla world) but to generalize and say their submissive is a result of being damaged is a crock.

Some of the best submissive men I know are those that simply want to make a woman happy because to make her happy makes him happy.

- LA

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 12:31:58 PM   
Lockit


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Status: offline 		LA, at the same time, I have known men who had mothers who were strong in many ways, who were healthy and had healthy relationships, that they admired and respected. They didn't NEED a woman to fill the lacks in their own lives, but they did want a woman something like their mother. Out of respect; not need.

There is an old saying that if you want to know how a man will treat you, look at how he treats his mother. Now how many of us are attracted to mommy's boys? (Talk about some drama there! lol) A man who respects his mother says a lot about himself and her. A man who needs mommy or has issues with his mother or who isn't respectful, says things about himself and I do determine many things from what I see.

I love a man who is a gentleman, who opens doors, not for just me but anyone who needs to walk through it. I love a man who has respect for me as a person and who can see me and not someone else standing there. I love a strong man, who has done his emotional homework and who has landed himself in a comfortable position of liking himself and life, who just happens to love submitting to me.

If I have to raise that man first... no thank you, pass, next.


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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 12:35:11 PM   
PeonForHer


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*Growl*, slurp!

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 12:37:08 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit


If I have to raise that man first... no thank you, pass, next.



I think that if a woman's had too much of the rotten end of the male-child thing, Lockit, she may well be traumatised by it and hate it forever more. I wouldn't blame her.

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 12:42:53 PM   
Lockit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit


If I have to raise that man first... no thank you, pass, next.



I think that if a woman's had too much of the rotten end of the male-child thing, Lockit, she may well be traumatised by it and hate it forever more. I wouldn't blame her.


LOL, I can't say I haven't run into a mommy's boy here and there, but I can't say I was traumatized by it. At that moment in life it was pretty dramatic, but something I was quickly dealing with or exiting from. lol Hey, I was a mother of son's and I am sure I influenced them in some good ways and some bad ways, but we didn't have any undue residue or attachments that needed to be healed by another woman. I did my job and moved on and anyone who needs to go back to the arms of a mama, ought to go work that out with his mama or someone willing. That just wouldn't be me by choice, not trauma! lol


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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 12:52:20 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
There is an old saying that if you want to know how a man will treat you, look at how he treats his mother. Now how many of us are attracted to mommy's boys? (Talk about some drama there! lol) A man who respects his mother says a lot about himself and her. A man who needs mommy or has issues with his mother or who isn't respectful, says things about himself and I do determine many things from what I see.


Yeah, I once had to end things with someone because he wouldn't cut the cord. Every decision he made about his life had to be approved by *mum* (he was from the UK and always referred to her as *mum*, not *my mum* but that all encompassing *mum*). Finally, when she gave him a suped-up beemer car for his birthday, that's when I called it quits. I knew he wasn't done sucking on the teet!

quote:

I love a man who is a gentleman, who opens doors, not for just me but anyone who needs to walk through it. I love a man who has respect for me as a person and who can see me and not someone else standing there. I love a strong man, who has done his emotional homework and who has landed himself in a comfortable position of liking himself and life, who just happens to love submitting to me.


Emotional homework! Just a warning Lockit, I'm going to use that expression ;-)

- LA



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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 1:22:00 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

LOL, I can't say I haven't run into a mommy's boy here and there, but I can't say I was traumatized by it. At that moment in life it was pretty dramatic, but something I was quickly dealing with or exiting from. lol Hey, I was a mother of son's and I am sure I influenced them in some good ways and some bad ways, but we didn't have any undue residue or attachments that needed to be healed by another woman. I did my job and moved on and anyone who needs to go back to the arms of a mama, ought to go work that out with his mama or someone willing. That just wouldn't be me by choice, not trauma! lol



That reminds me of something that I read in a womens' magazine once, a while ago. This columnist had read some report or another which said that men who'd had neglectful, but particularly cold, mothers, grew up being needy men. That is, men who needed the nurturing side of of their female partners.

What astonished me, though, was the fact that this columnist was semi-jokingly proposing that mothers should withdraw some of that nurturing sense with their sons - the better for female partners of said sons later to control them!

Whew. Now, there's looney for you.

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 1:50:48 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
That reminds me of something that I read in a womens' magazine once, a while ago. This columnist had read some report or another which said that men who'd had neglectful, but particularly cold, mothers, grew up being needy men. That is, men who needed the nurturing side of of their female partners.

What astonished me, though, was the fact that this columnist was semi-jokingly proposing that mothers should withdraw some of that nurturing sense with their sons - the better for female partners of said sons later to control them!

Whew. Now, there's looney for you.


And men who were over coddled by their mothers could create the same effect. Trust me.

All men are responsible for the men they chose to become.

- LA

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 3:35:36 PM   
youascend


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: youascend

In all honesty I would be annoyed if someone were talking to me in a mothering / childishly reaffirming / "nurturing" way unless it was an obvious mockery.


How do you feel about dommes' tendency to refer to submales as 'boys', then?


I don't see any kind of maternal of child inflection from the use of the word "boy". Interestingly I've noticed use of the word "boy" refering to any level of male partner growing in popularity in pop culture use and among the younger crowd. Lady Gaga seems to have her own lexicon and uses this term quite a bit in her songs.

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 4:01:36 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: youascend
I don't see any kind of maternal of child inflection from the use of the word "boy". Interestingly I've noticed use of the word "boy" refering to any level of male partner growing in popularity in pop culture use and among the younger crowd. Lady Gaga seems to have her own lexicon and uses this term quite a bit in her songs.


There seems to be quite a lot of agreement in that. However, I do remember reading one of the oft-cited bits of advice to women who'd been abused by their male partners. Something like, 'Don't let him call you 'girl'. It's a way of reinforcing his view of you, and your own view of yourself, as a child'.

Myself, I don't care one way or another if there's some desire to bring out the 'boy' in me behind her addressing me, or referring to me, as (a) boy. The key thing, as I've said, is that both D and s are conscious of what's going on.

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 4:05:48 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika



And men who were over coddled by their mothers could create the same effect. Trust me.

All men are responsible for the men they chose to become.

- LA


As are women, of course, including those who end up being pathologically overly-maternal in some way or another. But the thing is not to handicap one's son or daughter, presumably.



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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 4:51:24 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

As are women, of course,


Absolutely. I didn't mean to generalize. I'm a big believer in that even though we have don't have control over everything that happens to us, we have control over our reactions.

- LA

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 5:01:20 PM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

As are women, of course, including those who end up being pathologically overly-maternal in some way or another.



slightly off topic I suppose but this line just made me shriek....

*shudder* that's one of the problems I have with some colleagues here...when they feel the need to display any maternal manners at me...gosh do they get to feel my claws when they don't back off after a polite warning from my side...I am very selective who is allowed to be concerned about me or my actions and some people can't stop to think they have to interfere with maternal manners when I do things such as going abroad to meet Doms etc...*shudder* there really isn't much left which puts me off more than such attitude...I do know that they don't mean it bad but to me it feels immensely oppressive and so I make clear that I am not having any of it...

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 5/23/2010 5:02:11 PM >

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 5:54:48 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower
*shudder* that's one of the problems I have with some colleagues here...when they feel the need to display any maternal manners at me...gosh do they get to feel my claws when they don't back off after a polite warning from my side...I am very selective who is allowed to be concerned about me or my actions and some people can't stop to think they have to interfere with maternal manners when I do things such as going abroad to meet Doms etc...*shudder* there really isn't much left which puts me off more than such attitude...I do know that they don't mean it bad but to me it feels immensely oppressive and so I make clear that I am not having any of it...


Do people have a choice in who is concerned about them and their actions? I don't think I believe that. Yet, they do have a choice in whether or not they express such concern. I've blinked in surprise, a few times, when it's been made clear to me that my concern isn't wanted. I've learned that the best course often is just to zip up my mouth, though.

That also reminds me of another subject - and I'm recalling Lockit's words, earlier. She says, 'As for nurturing, they say that women are more nurturing and I would agree, but that doesn't mean that men cannot be nurturing'

Of course her point makes sense - but for submales, regarding certain dommes who are close to them, as well as vanilla males to their partners. I haven't had enough experience yet to come to any conclusion - but can it be that femdoms get a little edgy when they feel that 'fatherly vibe' from a submale? I've had inklings of that. Enough frosty looks and remarks to make me wonder, shall we say . . . .


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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 6:31:24 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

Of course her point makes sense - but for submales, regarding certain dommes who are close to them, as well as vanilla males to their partners. I haven't had enough experience yet to come to any conclusion - but can it be that femdoms get a little edgy when they feel that 'fatherly vibe' from a submale? I've had inklings of that. Enough frosty looks and remarks to make me wonder, shall we say . . . .


Fatherly vibes, ooooh... no man wants to try that with me. Paternalistic behaviour will get a veeeery frosty reaction from me. I have a great father and I don't think he even dares being paternalistic with me (in fact, I don't think he ever really was).

About 5 years ago, I had a submissive partner who was 14 years older than me and he never once tried to pull that "your young" thing on me.

That said, nurturing and caring? Bring it on. I adore an attentive and affectionate man who is concerned about my well being and is devoted and doting.

- LA


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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 6:42:34 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Fatherly vibes, ooooh... no man wants to try that with me. Paternalistic behaviour will get a veeeery frosty reaction from me. I have a great father and I don't think he even dares being paternalistic with me (in fact, I don't think he ever really was).

About 5 years ago, I had a submissive partner who was 14 years older than me and he never once tried to pull that "your young" thing on me.

That said, nurturing and caring? Bring it on. I adore an attentive and affectionate man who is concerned about my well being and is devoted and doting.

- LA



But that goes to my original point, LA - that 'motherly' concern needn't translate to anything that would feel, for its recipient, like 'being mothered'. It could easily just feel like kind concern, pure and simple. Likewise concern that comes from a 'fatherly place' in a male. What I'm asking is, do femdoms overreact? Are they sometimes too sensitive to being patronised, or treated paternalistically - especially from malesubs?

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 5/23/2010 6:43:13 PM >

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 7:29:09 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

But that goes to my original point, LA - that 'motherly' concern needn't translate to anything that would feel, for its recipient, like 'being mothered'. It could easily just feel like kind concern, pure and simple.


Well I made that point before you did, sweetie pie. Look at my OP!

- LA

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RE: Thoughts on Dommes portrayed as Mothers - 5/23/2010 7:41:41 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		Yes, but I made it better.

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