RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (Full Version)

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Rochsub2009 -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 2:51:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I would have generalized that I don't think white socks look good on a woman.

I would have been incorrect.

Just don't wear sandals!


My thoughts exactly, Jefff.  i would have made the same generalization.  But she's pretty enough to pull it off.  But if she added the sandals, even her beauty wouldn't mask that mistake.  [:D]



Silence8 -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 5:48:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blankpain

Without generalization, there are no answers.

But the generalisation still has to be statistically valid. In this case I don't believe it is.



EXACTLY, VC!!!!  Statistics is merely the science of VALID generalization. 

So yes, Blankpain is correct that some generalizations are useful and necessary.  The problem is that too many people pull silly, invalid, unsupportable generalizations out of their butts, and then try to pass them off as facts.



Not all (or arguably even most) phenomena, especially human phenomena, can even be approached using statistics in its present form.

The more interesting point is that statistical phenomena themselves often (if not always) contain as much general error as, gasp!, generalizations.

As usual, your retreat to 'don't generalize' comes down to a not-so-subtle ethical imperative of 'Don't think! Obey! Enjoy!'



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 6:34:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

Not all (or arguably even most) phenomena, especially human phenomena, can even be approached using statistics in its present form.

The more interesting point is that statistical phenomena themselves often (if not always) contain as much general error as, gasp!, generalizations.

As usual, your retreat to 'don't generalize' comes down to a not-so-subtle ethical imperative of 'Don't think! Obey! Enjoy!'


There you go again, retreating back to your "Everyone is a non-thinker" routine. 

A more appropriate response would have been to try to understand what i meant, rather than making silly assumptions.

A question like "Do you think the study of human behavior is a valid science?" might have been good.  Or how about "What aspects of gender differences do you think might be appropriate for statistical analysis?"  Or perhaps "Which areas of human behavior do you believe can be approached using statistics?"

But of course, that never occurred to you.  You're more interested in telling people your "truth", and in name calling.  It never enters your mind to assume that somebody other than yourself might actually have a brain, and to engage them in dialogue, rather than dismissing them offhand as your intellectual inferior.

Despite what you may think about the people here, most of them are very intelligent.  Many of them (including myself) have just as many (or more) degrees than you do.  Additionally, many here have extensive education in areas other than philosophy.  You seem to think this is a philosophy discussion board, so you still miss the point that this is a BDSM board with a diverse population with extremely diverse experiences and perspectives on BDSM issues.

One day, you'll come to realize this, and you'll try having a conversation with the other people on the board.  So far, all i've seen you do is tell them how wrong they all are, quote a bunch of dead guys, and then accuse us of being non-thinkers without even acknowledging even the slightest valid point that we may have made.  You also seldom seek to understand the opinions and perspectives of others.  That, to me, is the most "anti-intellectual" thing that one can do.  Contemplate that for a moment.

I've tired of your schtick.  let's just agree to disagree, and ignore one another.  That will probably be the most civilized thing that we can do.  Have a wonderful life.

(The sad thing is that you seem like a reasonably intelligent guy.  If you would have learned to have a conversation, rather than lecturing, it might have even been interesting.  But your poorly developed social skills don't allow you to see yourself as others see you.  You  don't realize how condescending you are in your approach.  Someday, when you have more life experience, you'll realize this).



Silence8 -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 6:46:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

Not all (or arguably even most) phenomena, especially human phenomena, can even be approached using statistics in its present form.

The more interesting point is that statistical phenomena themselves often (if not always) contain as much general error as, gasp!, generalizations.

As usual, your retreat to 'don't generalize' comes down to a not-so-subtle ethical imperative of 'Don't think! Obey! Enjoy!'


There you go again, retreating back to your "Everyone is a non-thinker" routine. 

A more appropriate response would have been to try to understand what i meant, rather than making silly assumptions.

A question like "Do you think the study of human behavior is a valid science?" might have been good.  Or how about "What aspects of gender differences do you think might be appropriate for statistical analysis?"

But of course, that never occurred to you.  You're more interested in telling people your "truth" and in name calling.

Despite what you may think about the people here, some of them are very intelligent.  Many of them (including myself) have just as many (or more degrees) than you do.  Additionally, many here have extensive education in areas other than philosophy.  You seem to think this is a philosophy discussion board, so you still miss the point that this is a BDSM board with a diverse population with extremely diverse experiences and perspectives on BDSM issues.

One day, you'll come to realize this, and you'll try having a conversation with the other people on the board.  So far, all i've seen you do is tell them how wrong they all are, quote a bunch of dead guys, and then accuse us of being non-thinkers without even acknowledging even the slightest valid point that we may have made.  You also seldom seek to understand the opinions and perspectives of others.  That, to me, is the most "anti-intellectual" thing that one can do.  Contemplate that for a moment.

I've tired of your schtick.  let's just agree to disagree, and ignore one another.  That will probably be the most civilized thing that we can do.  Have a wonderful life.


Honestly, though, your accusations seem to be a whole lot more about you than me.

Someone makes a good point, that basically all thought is a form of generalization, and you come in with some bullshit about statistics.

My 'philosophy' (which really amounts to thinking outside of platitudes) is a lot more relevant than some vague reference to some nonexistent statistical 'facts'.

I'll reference whomever I want. It's sad that the only individuals with whom you know how to interact are 'living'. If you feel insecure about my referencing what's on my mind, we can certainly deal with that insecurity.

The only times I've really reacted negatively is when posts are dismissed out-of-hand because responders don't like the style or tone of the post.

Get real. Maybe you should go back and 'contemplate' the tone of your last post.



Jeffff -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 6:49:42 PM)

And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.



Jeffff -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 6:57:12 PM)

You are going to find this hard to believe. I disagree.

I find Roch's posts spot on, well thought out and well written.

Something all of us should aspire too.


Incidentally, it is not the style or tone of your posts I dislike. It is the content.



SocratesNot -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 6:58:38 PM)

Rochsub, I think that you are using your personal dislike for Silence8 to prove your point, which is wrong.
First, statistic is not the only way to learn about human behavior, nor is the best.
Human behavior was studied in philosophy and literature for thousands of years before establishment of statistics as science.
Statistics is actually one of the worst sources of information about human behavior, feelings and human nature.
You forgot about introspection, about direct interaction with other people, about ethics, about genetics and hormons and about many other things.
Statistics is useful only to prove or disprove hypothesis.
However, hypotheses are established based on observation and reasoning based on many different disciplines.
Statistics will only prove it or disprove it in the end. And finally, even if hypothesis is statistically disproved, it doesn't mean it is wrong.
Maybe it is perfectly right and maybe the whole mechanism works for some people exactly as described in theory, only they are in minority.

Also I think that accusation that he quotes dead guys is completely unfair.
Do you really think that the wisdom and works of deceased people is completely lost after their death?



laurell3 -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 6:59:02 PM)

Agreed, his ability to state his point without being dramatic and his acceptance of others as well as his ability to share his own personal feelings and experiences in detail is fantastic. I envy him his abilities and think he's a fantastic addition to the boards and look forward to reading his posts.



Jeffff -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:01:37 PM)

I am going to join a forum for pilots.

I have never actually flown a plane, but I have some solid ideas and how it should be done.

Then I am going to join a lawyers forum. I have seen every episode of Law & Order.

I am sure I will we well received in both.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:03:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Rochsub, I think that you are using your personal dislike for Silence8 to prove your point, which is wrong.
First, statistic is not the only way to learn about human behavior, nor is the best.
Human behavior was studied in philosophy and literature for thousands of years before establishment of statistics as science.
Statistics is actually one of the worst sources of information about human behavior, feelings and human nature.
You forgot about introspection, about direct interaction with other people, about ethics, about genetics and hormons and about many other things.
Statistics is useful only to prove or disprove hypothesis.
However, hypotheses are established based on observation and reasoning based on many different disciplines.
Statistics will only prove it or disprove it in the end. And finally, even if hypothesis is statistically disproved, it doesn't mean it is wrong.
Maybe it is perfectly right and maybe the whole mechanism works for some people exactly as described in theory, only they are in minority.



SocratesNot,
Thank you for that very intelligent reply.  And frankly, i agree with much of what you said.

But that's why i like you more than i like Silence8.  You and i have had many interesting dialogues.  We've not always agreed with one another, but we've exchanged ideas and come to mutual understanding. 

i once longed to have a similar exchange with Silence8.  But i gave up on that fantasy.  Dialogue with him will remain impossible until he chooses to come down from Mt. Olympus.



laurell3 -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:08:50 PM)

Your opinion of me, however often you state it Silence8, isn't paticularly relevant to my existence here or well relevant to anything really. I don't know you, you don't know me. You are unlikely to ever have anyone know you at all as you post nothing other than contention.

If you will take the opportunity to actually read my posts, of which there are many, I believe you will find, that you are very mistaken. If you would like to have the opportunity to actually converse rather than toss out juvenile insults and proclaim your superiority, which I find laughable, I'm welcome to do that with you. I am kind of doubting however, that will happen as the very thing you point at others and accuse them of is your modus operandi here and not theirs.

Have a nice evening. [:D]



laurell3 -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:10:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

You're not much better, with your 4,524 one-line posts.

You're just threatened by people who think 'differently' than you. That's why you feel the need to say something stupid every time SN expresses a valid opinion.


In this case I am with laurell. While I often disagree with her, I think her posts helped me change my own perspective a little and become more open to some things.
Also, I have seen many of her posts that aren't one-liners, but quite long and elaborate.

Also, I think Rochsub ususlly has good posts, but when it comes to this discussion about statistics and when it comes to the way he tries to make fun of Silence8, I disagree with him.



Thanks SN, and it really isn't personal. I appreciate the fact that YOU are intelligent enough to see that.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:13:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

I challenge you to find one response you've made to something I've said that wasn't condescending and dismissive.



That may well be true.  But let me give you a bit of background information.  i had never heard of you a few weeks ago.  Then you attacked me personally in one of your posts.  You actually called me names.  And we had never even had a conversation of any type.

Later that day, you did it again.

The next day, you did it a third time.  To that point, i had chosen to ignore the offense, and i hadn't responded.  But 3 strikes and you're out.  You were officially on my "dislike list". 

So yes, i have been confrontational with you.  i see others trying to ignore you (just as i did originally).  But some shit just needs to be addressed.  So now, when you come on here with your condescending bullshit, i call you on it.

It is generally not a good idea to join a new message board and immediately attack all of the regular posters.  Particularly when you know nothing about them.  Instead, you might try introducing yourself, and engaging them in civil dialogue.  But you STILL haven't done that.

Frankly, i rather enjoy quoting dead guys.  But you have never asked me a question or responded with civility to anything that i have posted.  So you wouldn't know that.



Silence8 -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:17:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Your opinion of me, however often you state it Silence8, isn't paticularly relevant to my existence here or well relevant to anything really. I don't know you, you don't know me. You are unlikely to ever have anyone know you at all as you post nothing other than contention.

If you will take the opportunity to actually read my posts, of which there are many, I believe you will find, that you are very mistaken. If you would like to have the opportunity to actually converse rather than toss out juvenile insults and proclaim your superiority, which I find laughable, I'm welcome to do that with you. I am kind of doubting however, that will happen as the very thing you point at others and say is your modus operandi here and not theirs.

Have a nice evening. [:D]


Again, feel free to find one post in which I somehow claim my superiority.

If you look at my threads, which are not many, you'll find me wading through a sea of dismissive one-line remarks for the few individuals with the gusto actually to respond.

The problem is a negativity bias -- it's much easier to make a dismissive one-liner than to think and actually respond. Sometimes, when I really like a thread, I won't respond at all, because it's difficult and I don't want to waste space.




laurell3 -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:25:45 PM)

Your personal attacks are not appropriate or on topic. To the extent that you are attempting to pursue that, you will get no further response from me.

Now back to the topic, Maledom relaitonships vs. Femdom relationships.



Andalusite -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:26:41 PM)

So, it's wasting space to agree or say something nice, but arguing with someone and accusing someone of being a "non-thinker" is a valuable use of space?[;)] You have stated before that you know better than other people do what they are thinking and feeling and experiencing in their relationships, even though you've never met or talked with them. Whenever someone expresses that your fantasy bubble has nothing to do with their reality, you accuse them of being incapable of thought, or of oppressing your philosophical bent.



SocratesNot -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:26:58 PM)

I will tell you one thing about Silence8.
He is not actually calling people stupid or ignorant.
He just hates anti-intellectual atmosphere. He doesn't attack people. He attacks their anti-intellectualism.
This is some kind of harsh social commentary that people usually react defensively to.
Also, while he usually quotes philosophers and uses sometimes too specialized vocabulary, he hasn't claimed that he is superior.
Maybe it would be the best if you tried to stop attacking him.
And he would also benefit if he tried to explain his philosophical and other ideas in a little more plain language.
And when it comes to anti-intellectualism I tend to think that this is tendency that is present only when thinking would possibly lead to
offensive or not very convenient conclusions. So people deliberately avoid open intellectual discussion on some topics,
because they are uncomfortable with them.
When this is not the case, many very intelligent discussions flourish on this site.
However, I think that being honest and open and engaging in intellectual discussions is good even if the results of such discussion are inconvent.
By accepting inconvenient parts of our nature we actually know more about ourselves, become less insecure, learn to accept negative things about us
and this leads to greater self acceptance and greater acceptance of others.
It is similar to humiliation in D/s scene, only that we are all humiliated, in a positive way, and not only one person.



Jeffff -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:35:50 PM)

SN?, the vast majority of people here are already at peace with ALL sides of their nature.

Those that aren't will not be brought there by a pompous ass using cheap intellectualism to hide his own inadequacies.



VideoAdminZeta -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:46:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Your personal attacks are not appropriate or on topic. To the extent that you are attempting to pursue that, you will get no further response from me.

Now back to the topic, Maledom relaitonships vs. Femdom relationships.

Yes.



Arpig -> RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships (5/30/2010 7:47:30 PM)

I was going to answer...but Post #2 pretty much says it all...stupid idea for a thread.



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