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RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:22:14 PM   
dovie


Posts: 1211
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Next time could you use a cane and a little backhand?

Lighten up people, there's no conspiracy or lynch mob here. Ill thought out yes, the end of the world? No.


I got caned and backhanded...LOL
offering the Mod some coffee..dang you're good!

dovie

_____________________________

"Sometimes love is a nice long lick!"

gentle dove with 38's *the kind you shoot with*


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:26:27 PM   
VideoAdminAlpha


Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		One more off topic post, you should be ashamed  Im headed towards the coffee pot...Oh and i got to get some humor in here......settle down, children


***runs for the hills and the coffee pot,**

Back on topic!!!!

_____________________________


You can't please all the people all of the time.Unfortunately there are times you cannot please any of them :( You can only do your best, and hope they realize that.

(in reply to dovie)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:27:52 PM   
tigreetsa


Posts: 132
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: SW London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I have nowhere near that level of arrogance. If you go back to see my very first post on this, you'll see my exact thoughts.



Arrogance? What has arrogance got to do with anything?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I'm also going to refer you to LadyEllen's latest post which is, in my opinion, right on the mark.



I know, I've read it, as well as all the other posts here on this thread. I can actually read.


_____________________________

'There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I we've been through that
And that is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late.'
All Along The Watchtower (Bob Dylan)

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:28:46 PM   
VideoAdminAlpha


Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		I'm getting the cane, last chance!!

_____________________________


You can't please all the people all of the time.Unfortunately there are times you cannot please any of them :( You can only do your best, and hope they realize that.

(in reply to tigreetsa)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:29:42 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		There's no question that he sometimes comes across as mucking about - but its important to remember what he was like when he got here and to see that humour as being potentially a screen, especially when from time to time it slips and we see what lays behind it.

Couple that with the disjointed use of language and the rapid sequence of postings, each intended apparently to remedy some perceived defect in the previous one, and a picture starts to emerge of a confused soul at best, one suffering extreme low self esteem alongside rigid thinking that does not forgive him when that screen slips, and a deep seated fear and resentment of women and a well developed sense of self contempt at his strong but frustrated desire for female company is displayed for all to see.

My sense is that he is lonely and this because his confusion and low self esteem causes him to self exclude or to be excluded - and this merely serves to reinforce all the negatives described above. All of this I am fairly sure about; what I am not sure about is how these immense self induced pressures upon him might come to resolve themselves.

Personally I am not sure about him being "Awaiting Approval" as it may well be that his interactions here are valuable to his sense of personal well being, but it is a decision for the Moderators, not me. I tend to think that it would be better were he allowed to post but kept an eye on - and for those of us sympathetic to his apparent condition to make allowances, advise others to do the same and just tell him straight when he's going off on one again without the ridicule; and yes I acknowledge I am guilty in that from time to time.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:30:02 PM   
frazzle


Posts: 1212
Joined: 6/20/2009
Status: offline 		The topic didnt go off.

It was blatently obvious who this was about, and he came in and tried to defend himself. or is he meant to accept being accused by couch therapists of needing to be locked up.

(in reply to VideoAdminAlpha)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:34:09 PM   
VideoAdminAlpha


Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

There's no question that he sometimes comes across as mucking about - but its important to remember what he was like when he got here and to see that humour as being potentially a screen, especially when from time to time it slips and we see what lays behind it.

Couple that with the disjointed use of language and the rapid sequence of postings, each intended apparently to remedy some perceived defect in the previous one, and a picture starts to emerge of a confused soul at best, one suffering extreme low self esteem alongside rigid thinking that does not forgive him when that screen slips, and a deep seated fear and resentment of women and a well developed sense of self contempt at his strong but frustrated desire for female company is displayed for all to see.

My sense is that he is lonely and this because his confusion and low self esteem causes him to self exclude or to be excluded - and this merely serves to reinforce all the negatives described above. All of this I am fairly sure about; what I am not sure about is how these immense self induced pressures upon him might come to resolve themselves.

Personally I am not sure about him being "Awaiting Approval" as it may well be that his interactions here are valuable to his sense of personal well being, but it is a decision for the Moderators, not me. I tend to think that it would be better were he allowed to post but kept an eye on - and for those of us sympathetic to his apparent condition to make allowances, advise others to do the same and just tell him straight when he's going off on one again without the ridicule; and yes I acknowledge I am guilty in that from time to time.

E


Awaiting approval means just that, it means that every post you make will be looked at by a moderator, it does not mean one cannot post.

_____________________________


You can't please all the people all of the time.Unfortunately there are times you cannot please any of them :( You can only do your best, and hope they realize that.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:36:17 PM   
VideoAdminAlpha


Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: frazzle

The topic didnt go off.

It was blatently obvious who this was about, and he came in and tried to defend himself. or is he meant to accept being accused by couch therapists of needing to be locked up.


This is the topic:  Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual-  it is NOT about any particular poster. Back on topic to all : no more warnings.

_____________________________


You can't please all the people all of the time.Unfortunately there are times you cannot please any of them :( You can only do your best, and hope they realize that.

(in reply to frazzle)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:36:44 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		god I soooo want to comment on the cane......hello? Masochist here!

Stella you have a good point that's actually on topic, what if you aren't a trained therapist, doctor, etc, but you see someone on the site that you think is really in emotional turmoil? What do you think is acceptable? (generally..not about any paticular person). What about the people that come on claiming to really want castration by a nonmedical partner? Or other seriously altering activities?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to tigreetsa)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:37:51 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I realise that VAA - but it obviously takes time for the posts to be looked at (even given your incredible efficiency and admirable work rate of course) before they are approved and I'm not sure the person in question will necessarily be able to cope with that unless he learns quickly so he doesnt need to be moderated any more.

Your call in the end though, simple as that

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to VideoAdminAlpha)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:38:45 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		tigreetsa, You seem to be angry with everything that I post and it wasn't my intention to anger you. I like you and respect what you have to say.

I agree with you and your post. But the bottom line is that I don't think I need a degree to notice that there is problem. I do not have the qualifications to diagnose the problem nor do I have to solve the problem. But to identify that there is a problem, yes.

On another note, I am trying to stay on topic here. I know VAA enough to know she's wrestle me for my cane and whack me with it. And I'm not gonna give her the pleasure ;-)

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 5/23/2010 6:39:02 PM >

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to tigreetsa)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:40:54 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		You know Laurell I've wondered about that too. After all it's a fine line between encouraging them by giving them attention and wanting to tell them that they might get seriously injured - in the case of the dangerous kink.

As far as someone in emotional turmoil there isn't much to be done online is there.


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

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(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:45:42 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub
i think this may have started off as a way for some to vent frustrations about others who do not play according to the rules they feel should rule.  at some point, to me anyhow, it went from that, to reminding me of the so called cool kids making fun of the retarded kid til the retarded kid ran out of the gym and cried in the bathroom.  i ran to comfort her in the bathroom, and i wish i could hug some unnamed poster, rather than watch him be humiliated.

i agree with whoever posted that it is amazing some one can manipulate supposedly more intelligent people to the point this thread was needed. 

This analysis seems spot on to me.

The belief, "If I don't point out how idiotic poster X's statements are, someone might believe them," is, frankly, a rationalization of an intellectual bully.  If X's statements really are idiotic, everyone will notice.  You only elevate those statements if you act as though they are at a level where they even deserve to be challenged.  I'm reminded of chess players I know who enjoy playing someone much weaker than they are.  Their win ratio will be 99% in these matches, but of course they never learn anything, and never improve.  Their objective is insta-ego boost.  It's a sign of insecurity.

Since the OP of the thread is a fitness professional, I'll try to explain this using an example from the gym.  I use a rowing machine several days a week.  Sometimes, I'm there alone.  Other times, there's someone with a much faster stroke sitting next to me.  Yet other times, there's someone with a much slower stroke.  In all three of those situations, I need to maintain the stroke that is right for me, instead of following the stroke of another.  In rhetoric, this is now termed "Staying on message."

An anthropological point: there are two groupings of people I have seen who seem most easily distracted by trollish behavior on the internet.  These groups are physically imposing dominant men, and women in the business world who have never had children.  Why?  The men are used to controlling real-life conversations with a glare, and they need to learn brand new social skills when on the internet.  The women have pushed themselves to be aggressive, but never learned how to say, or think, "adults talking," and just continue with their business as though nothing had occurred.

Adults talking.  Stay on message.  Maintain your own stroke.  Problem solved.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:53:21 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I remember seeing someone threatening to kill themselves and saying that tonight was the night. I posted a thread, not knowing how best to get help as quickly as could be done. There have been many times I have been concerned about someone, especially a few years ago. I've offered to talk, links and assistance even.

I don't know what is ethical in this, but I know what my heart says and then again on the other side of that, I know what my sarcasm dictates I do. lol If I really think it is serious, I won't be sarcastic and might take some action of some sort. If I don't think it is serious, I will sometimes jump in the middle of things.

Do we owe anything to anyone? That is a personal matter I think. Whatever we do will be judged by those reading whether it is accurate or not. We all tend to live with what we say and do around here.

Could we push someone too far? Yes. Should we coddle people that come at us left and right? Should we ignore because they just might not be right? Some of my favorite posters are clearly not right, but then not a danger to themselves.

I don't know the answers. I just respond, right or wrong with how I feel that day or what I think. I won't take on a responsibility and yet I won't be overly harsh if I suspect something. I may tease or play along, or be sarcastic, but it really does take two to tango here. If they keep dancing, I figure they are okay. Would I like knowing I pushed someone over the edge? No. That would be a tough one to live with.


_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:53:24 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		The only solution is control (as with most things in life). And in general it is the regulars who respond and push the thing into some Twilight Zone track where the orginal thread gets lost in the feeding frenzy.
New people coming in tend to be more gentle.
Control for me is block/hide/ignore.
Perhaps that option should be blinking in some hot pink neon bolded print at the top of each post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

It's theoretically possible to ask people who already know about him to ignore/block/hide him, or to stop having those meta discussions. Realistically I don't see that happening, since there will always be enough new folks coming in to repeat the cycle.



(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 6:53:36 PM   
tigreetsa


Posts: 132
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: SW London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Stella you have a good point that's actually on topic, what if you aren't a trained therapist, doctor, etc, but you see someone on the site that you think is really in emotional turmoil? What do you think is acceptable? (generally..not about any paticular person). What about the people that come on claiming to really want castration by a nonmedical partner? Or other seriously altering activities?



I assume that most posts made on these message boards, just as the vast majority of profiles on the other side, are written with one purpose in mind - to bring attention to that person and what they think and feel, what they are seeking, not seeking, etc. But the bottom line is most of the words you come across on this site are for one purpose only - to seek attention.

Yes you can tell a lot from what people write and how they express themselves because they project various issues - emotional and psychological, through their language.

However until you actually know that person and have a good idea of how they are actually living there's no way you can find the context for those issues and how serious or threatening or not they really are.

And the thing is, almost everybody here, no in fact everyone here has some sort of mental disturbance or some sort of issue or is carrying emotional baggage. It's simply not possible to go through life and have contact with other people without having some issues. The only way you can avoid having issues is to lock yourself in a broom cupboard and live completely isolated from other human beings - not humanly possible.

Whichever way you look at it you can think somebody has issues from the way they are posting but until you know them as people and the way they live you will never know if they have issues.

And concrete knowledge for me is the best basis for making assumptions.


_____________________________

'There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I we've been through that
And that is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late.'
All Along The Watchtower (Bob Dylan)

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 7:02:34 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah I agree. But do you ever feel compelled to contact them or try to help in some way?



_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to tigreetsa)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 7:03:46 PM   
tigreetsa


Posts: 132
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: SW London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

tigreetsa, You seem to be angry with everything that I post and it wasn't my intention to anger you. I like you and respect what you have to say.

I agree with you and your post. But the bottom line is that I don't think I need a degree to notice that there is problem. I do not have the qualifications to diagnose the problem nor do I have to solve the problem. But to identify that there is a problem, yes.

On another note, I am trying to stay on topic here. I know VAA enough to know she's wrestle me for my cane and whack me with it. And I'm not gonna give her the pleasure ;-)



LadyAngelika, so now it's anger, not arrogance, right? Nice second attempt at trying to make this some sort of personal issue between us but up front I didn't fall for it the first time, I'm not falling for it now, and I'm not going to fall for it if you try again.

I was still writing in response to Laurell's posting about the difference between thinking some have issues from what they post on the boards and knowing that they have issues from knowing them personally and their lives.

As you can probably see now this was the basis for my whole argument - it's quite obvious - and I certainly wasn't trying to imply or back-handedly insult you in any way via my posts. You might have assumed this, I'm sorry if you did, but I actually enjoy your posts and think you are highly intelligent.

And besides, you should know me better by now, in that if I did really want to snark at you I would have honoured you with a song parody.

Edited for typos.


< Message edited by tigreetsa -- 5/23/2010 7:05:42 PM >

_____________________________

'There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I we've been through that
And that is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late.'
All Along The Watchtower (Bob Dylan)

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 7:04:00 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		F.R.

I have not read any of this thread ....except this page.

It seems I am too late to get in on the dirt. I would just like to say, as one of the very few normal people here, I am not responsible for the mentally disturbed.

Mock them I say, mock them with relish!

But no mustard, I hate mustard!

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to tigreetsa)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Ethical response to a mentally disturbed individual... - 5/23/2010 7:05:19 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		"Normal" huh? Raises an eyebrow. Ya sure about that?

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 5/23/2010 7:07:14 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 140
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