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RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/25/2010 6:40:30 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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"Cool kids", "mean girls" "in-crowd" those are all terms used by people that feel left out and insecure.

The simple fact is in my years on collarme I have seen that yes, there are cliques. They are people that have taken the time and made the effort to share and reach out to one another, it builds bridges as it should. And yes there are behaviors/comments/judgments that will get the reponse of many, it's pretty easy to sit back for even one day and determine what most of them are. Trying to break into a set group of people by insult and stupidity and then whining it didn't work is just plain nonsensical and childish.

However, what is different and missing from this theory of "mean girls" or "cool kids" that makes this knee-jerk argument silly is this: the majority of posters here will accept others rather easily if they put forth the effort. This isn't high school, live and let live, laugh occasionally and you're golden, it's not difficult to win over the majority of people here. It really is overall a place accepting of differences. There are, of course, as always, exceptions and differences as with any place and group of people.

And I might add, I'm pleased to see "the administration" has taken a turn to not be exclusionary, stand-offish and rude to the posters that do put forth the effort. I find it absolutely ironic upon my return to find that not only do most accept moderation, they will FLOCK to protect and defend "the administration". My response is well done to her, amazing accomplishment! And, that's how it should be in my opinion, and it's a change I welcome whole-heartedly. The few people I see whining about it are the ones that aren't getting THEIR individual way, which doesn't work in a group of people.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, of course, as always, I'm just tired of seeing the "mean girl" mantra bandied about by people that just can't see it's not that big of an exclusionary picture.

*And by the way, when I say "here" I do NOT MEAN P&R, that's a nuthouse all and of itself.





< Message edited by laurell3 -- 5/25/2010 6:47:38 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/25/2010 6:53:57 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

They are people that have taken the time and made the effort to share and reach out to one another, it builds bridges as it should. And yes there are behaviors/comments/judgments that will get the reponse of many, it's pretty easy to sit back for even one day and determine what most of them are. Trying to break into a set group of people by insult and stupidity and then whining it didn't work is just plain nonsensical and childish.

However, what is different and missing from this theory of "mean girls" or "cool kids" that makes this knee-jerk argument silly is this: the majority of posters here will accept others rather easily if they put forth the effort.

Got to agree with Laurell. Especially the bolded part.

Are there cliques here? Yes. Do I personally feel accepted by those cliques? By and large, yes (with the odd poster as an exception, but you can't expect to get on with everyone).

Did I have to do anything magical or special to get that acceptance? No. If you hang around and avoid shoving your foot in your mouth you get let in. It ain't hard...


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RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/25/2010 7:02:52 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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VC.. remember when you first joined?...Ron called you Vag.... and you got cunty about it..:P. But you stayed and showed a little bit of sense..:)

I have said this before, but After my very first post. Katylied called me a baby!....ME...a BABY!.

I waited a few days and watched and then became the beloved figure I am.:)

It doesn't take a shitload of brains to get along here. Just a little sense.

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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/25/2010 7:07:51 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Katylied called me a baby!....ME...a BABY!.


Fun times, never to be forgotten.  Jeff got some big boy pants after that, and now all is well!


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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/25/2010 7:08:35 PM   
Jeffff


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ANd you went on to become the vilest of whores.

I love happy endings!

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Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/25/2010 7:10:50 PM   
Level


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Status: offline
Stop it, you all are gonna make me cry!

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Skinned up knees and salty lips
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Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/25/2010 7:15:30 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
Really? It turns me on to see a grown man cry.

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Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/25/2010 7:20:13 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

"Cool kids", "mean girls" "in-crowd" those are all terms used by people that feel left out and insecure.


Of course they are.  That's how in-group versus out-group dynamics work.  I am describing the dynamics and the perceptions of these dynamics.


quote:

The simple fact is in my years on collarme I have seen that yes, there are cliques. They are people that have taken the time and made the effort to share and reach out to one another, it builds bridges as it should. And yes there are behaviors/comments/judgments that will get the reponse of many, it's pretty easy to sit back for even one day and determine what most of them are. Trying to break into a set group of people by insult and stupidity and then whining it didn't work is just plain nonsensical and childish.


All correct.  What you are saying is that there is not a high bar to acceptance in the in-group, and that is true.  It is also true that behaving in a socially obtrusive manner (eg, as the OP did, by violating TOS and then complaining when this was noted and acted on) will cause the group to respond in a predictable manner.  They will tend to affirm as a group that this is unacceptable behavior, and reassure one another of in-group status by enforcing social norms.  Standard group social dynamics, and actually pretty consistent in most primate species.


quote:

However, what is different and missing from this theory of "mean girls" or "cool kids" that makes this knee-jerk argument silly is this: the majority of posters here will accept others rather easily if they put forth the effort. This isn't high school, live and let live, laugh occasionally and you're golden, it's not difficult to win over the majority of people here.


Again, you are stating that there is not an unreasonably high bar to achieve the social norms here.  This is true.  That does not change the fact that we are observing enforcement by social dynamic more than professional dynamic, and that the social dynamic is describable in this manner *regardless of where the bar is set*.

quote:

The few people I see whining about it are the ones that aren't getting THEIR individual way, which doesn't work in a group of people.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, of course, as always, I'm just tired of seeing the "mean girl" mantra bandied about by people that just can't see it's not that big of an exclusionary picture.


That's not what I'm saying at all.  Nor am I complaining.  Social Darwinism worked beautifully on Usenet, and there is no reason it can't or shouldn't work here.  Just understand that for good or bad, this is the dynamic that is occurring.


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RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/25/2010 7:22:02 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
Yeah LnT, sorry I wasn't directing it at your post per se, I did understand what you were saying and totally agree. I was just commenting on the whole last few days of "cool kids" comments. I should have made that more clear.

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I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/25/2010 7:38:21 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Really? It turns me on to see a grown man cry.


Come over when I'm watching Saving Private Ryan, and you'll be throwing your panties at me.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/25/2010 10:01:15 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

Hey! I didn't attack! I just called you flowery...

:-(

ETA: and then I *did* go and look-I said you were purty, remember?



OHHH VC! I didnt mean to imply you were attacking. Im sorry you got that impression. I meant others, which is why i took my face shot off as the main photo.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/26/2010 12:27:53 AM   
eibhlinauvert


Posts: 32
Joined: 5/20/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

"Cool kids", "mean girls" "in-crowd" those are all terms used by people that feel left out and insecure.

The simple fact is in my years on collarme I have seen that yes, there are cliques. They are people that have taken the time and made the effort to share and reach out to one another, it builds bridges as it should. And yes there are behaviors/comments/judgments that will get the reponse of many, it's pretty easy to sit back for even one day and determine what most of them are. Trying to break into a set group of people by insult and stupidity and then whining it didn't work is just plain nonsensical and childish.

However, what is different and missing from this theory of "mean girls" or "cool kids" that makes this knee-jerk argument silly is this: the majority of posters here will accept others rather easily if they put forth the effort. This isn't high school, live and let live, laugh occasionally and you're golden, it's not difficult to win over the majority of people here. It really is overall a place accepting of differences. There are, of course, as always, exceptions and differences as with any place and group of people.

And I might add, I'm pleased to see "the administration" has taken a turn to not be exclusionary, stand-offish and rude to the posters that do put forth the effort. I find it absolutely ironic upon my return to find that not only do most accept moderation, they will FLOCK to protect and defend "the administration". My response is well done to her, amazing accomplishment! And, that's how it should be in my opinion, and it's a change I welcome whole-heartedly. The few people I see whining about it are the ones that aren't getting THEIR individual way, which doesn't work in a group of people.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, of course, as always, I'm just tired of seeing the "mean girl" mantra bandied about by people that just can't see it's not that big of an exclusionary picture.

*And by the way, when I say "here" I do NOT MEAN P&R, that's a nuthouse all and of itself.






Laurell, I will presume you are directing this to me since "mean girls" is one the the terms i used. Firstly, I do not feel "left out" or "insecure" by anyone. I wasnt trying to trying to "break into a set group of people by insult and stupidity and then whining it didn't work is just plain nonsensical and childish." It will not make or break my day if the regular posters on here decide they like me or not. I am not interested in that. The purpose of me contributing to this thread was stated in the first few posts i submitted. The treatment of the OP I felt was uncalled for. she came on asking permission to post a link to charity and the first reponse she got was "put some clothes on" , and then the rest of the choir including the conductor (video admin alpha) joined in. I hope this clarifies things for you.

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Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/26/2010 12:36:21 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

OHHH VC! I didnt mean to imply you were attacking. Im sorry you got that impression. I meant others, which is why i took my face shot off as the main photo.
Ok-thanks for clarifying.

No harm done, flowery lady


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Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/26/2010 1:41:34 AM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Laurell, I will presume you are directing this to me since "mean girls" is one the the terms i used. Firstly, I do not feel "left out" or "insecure" by anyone. I wasnt trying to trying to "break into a set group of people by insult and stupidity and then whining it didn't work is just plain nonsensical and childish." It will not make or break my day if the regular posters on here decide they like me or not. I am not interested in that. The purpose of me contributing to this thread was stated in the first few posts i submitted. The treatment of the OP I felt was uncalled for. she came on asking permission to post a link to charity and the first reponse she got was "put some clothes on" , and then the rest of the choir including the conductor (video admin alpha) joined in. I hope this clarifies things for you.

The OP was called on breaking TOS by having a coochie shot as her main pic. Most of the new folks who make this error change the pic when they are told it is against the rules of this site. The OP didn't, and chose to jump nasty about it to boot. She compounded her error by also jumping nasty at a site admin instead of simply explaining what the link was and that she was offline at the time. As Laurell noted, many of us appreciate the staff here, and the fact that they volunteer their time to keep our playground open and running smoothly.

I suggest that you re-read the posts made by LadyNTrainer, because she is pretty much bang on. Collarchat is no different than any other large group of people with a common interest, and I really don't understand why anyone would think it is or should be. Any group of folks (classic car buffs, knitting circles, rennies, animal rescue peeps, etc) has rules of acceptable behaviour, and those who violate those rules will know it rather sooner than later. It is then up to said person how they will react. The OP reacted rather badly, and the members responded. For those of us who have been on internet forums and/or members of RL clubs or groups, this wasn't exactly a shocker.

Walking into someone else's house and taking a dump on the living room carpet isn't really a great way to make friends with your fellow guests nor the party host, IME.






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RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/26/2010 1:48:09 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

Walking into someone else's house and taking a dump on the living room carpet isn't really a great way to make friends with your fellow guests nor the party host, IME.
In your *experience*?!?

How many times have you tried it, Wyld?


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Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/26/2010 2:52:04 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
Peppermint -
I sent you a note. In the future, all you have to do is click the "pm" button under a person's name (hide... profile... pm).

Looking forward to the info.
sunshine

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RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/26/2010 6:51:43 AM   
eibhlinauvert


Posts: 32
Joined: 5/20/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

Laurell, I will presume you are directing this to me since "mean girls" is one the the terms i used. Firstly, I do not feel "left out" or "insecure" by anyone. I wasnt trying to trying to "break into a set group of people by insult and stupidity and then whining it didn't work is just plain nonsensical and childish." It will not make or break my day if the regular posters on here decide they like me or not. I am not interested in that. The purpose of me contributing to this thread was stated in the first few posts i submitted. The treatment of the OP I felt was uncalled for. she came on asking permission to post a link to charity and the first reponse she got was "put some clothes on" , and then the rest of the choir including the conductor (video admin alpha) joined in. I hope this clarifies things for you.

The OP was called on breaking TOS by having a coochie shot as her main pic. Most of the new folks who make this error change the pic when they are told it is against the rules of this site. The OP didn't, and chose to jump nasty about it to boot. She compounded her error by also jumping nasty at a site admin instead of simply explaining what the link was and that she was offline at the time. As Laurell noted, many of us appreciate the staff here, and the fact that they volunteer their time to keep our playground open and running smoothly.

I suggest that you re-read the posts made by LadyNTrainer, because she is pretty much bang on. Collarchat is no different than any other large group of people with a common interest, and I really don't understand why anyone would think it is or should be. Any group of folks (classic car buffs, knitting circles, rennies, animal rescue peeps, etc) has rules of acceptable behaviour, and those who violate those rules will know it rather sooner than later. It is then up to said person how they will react. The OP reacted rather badly, and the members responded. For those of us who have been on internet forums and/or members of RL clubs or groups, this wasn't exactly a shocker.

Walking into someone else's house and taking a dump on the living room carpet isn't really a great way to make friends with your fellow guests nor the party host, IME.







WyldHrt, Thank you for your suggestion of reading LadyNTRainer's post, I have infact already read it, and find it to be a more articulate re-iteration of what most of you are saying therefore it didnt urge me to comment. I don't really think any of you are attempting to understand what I am trying to say, so I will go for it one last time with a hypothetical.


Say for example it was against the law where i lived to sport an overgrown mullet.  Say for example one day Sirsholly came to me and asked me how to go about raising funds for charity. Now, instead of pointing her in the right direction,  I overreact and  start running around like the vikings had arrived to pillage my village; I tell her to remove herself from my sight as i cannot take her seriously while she looks like that, not to mention, its against the law!  The village leader gets involved and chastises her too, tellling her the nineteen-eighties have called and want their hairdo back. The rest of the villagers find this hilarious and all join and finger point, and agree how very DARE she roll on up on her motorcycle looking like that. sirsholly leaves not knowing anybetter how to solve the initial problem and now has a complex about her appearance. Now, this is a hypothetical. Let me remind you. I would not do this.

and for those of you so concerned about the rules on this site, leave it to admin to govern i would say, thats what theyre there for isnt it? or at least thats what i would have thought.  a whole bunch of you jumping on someone like you did as i have said before is out of order.

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RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/26/2010 7:25:04 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
Bless your heart for trying to tell a bunch of adults what is acceptable and what is 'out of order'.

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RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/26/2010 7:40:50 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eibhlinauvert

Yes sirsholly, i missed you while i was at that concert i had to go to. i thought about you lot all the time i was there.

Not the correct metric.  Hopefully you got lost in your joy of the music while you were there.  The way to measure the influence this message board has on your psyche is to consider questions like: after you returned from the concert, how much time did it take for you to check this thread? did you even take your shoes off? or go to the restroom before logging in?  That kind of thing.

Even through a cyberfilter, I can see there is a disconnect between what you profess to be important to you, and how you spend your time.  I've found it's a helpful exercise to write down how much time I spend on different things each day -- what actually happens, not what I "think" is important to me.  You might be surprised at what you truly hold dear -- and what your body says is important will not be the same as what your lips say.  That much is already clear.

Frankly, you seem bored and mildly sadistic, so you're doing this:  http://www.xkcd.com/386/


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RE: Does anyone know if we are allowed to post links to... - 5/26/2010 7:41:22 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt
Walking into someone else's house and taking a dump on the living room carpet isn't really a great way to make friends with your fellow guests nor the party host, IME.


Correct.  Not even if that happens to be your kink, and everyone in the house thinks your kink is okay.  As a mature adult who is respectful of other people's need to keep their houses clean lest the city fine them, it's your responsibility to read the rules the host sent when you were invited and stick to them.  That means keeping some parts of your kink in the bedroom with other consenting adults, specifically the parts that are messy or that involve public exhibitionism to the degree that the host may be liable for your actions. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: eibhlinauvert
WyldHrt, Thank you for your suggestion of reading LadyNTRainer's post, I have infact already read it, and find it to be a more articulate re-iteration of what most of you are saying therefore it didnt urge me to comment. I don't really think any of you are attempting to understand what I am trying to say, so I will go for it one last time with a hypothetical.


Let me re-re-iterate then. If you agree to a set of rules before walking into a place, violate that set of rules, then become unreasonably angry when you are told that you violated those rules, you are going to predictably provoke bad reactions.  If you continue to respond in a vitriolic manner and show no understanding of why people are annoyed with you, it only gets worse.  No big surprises here.

It is never smart to kick strange dogs, stick your tongue to frozen metal, clean the barrel of a loaded firearm with your finger or go swimming in a lake with hungry piranhas.  When you see someone do any of these things on purpose and get hurt as a result, you may not be glad that bad things happened to them as a result of their deliberate decision.  But as adults they should have made better choices, so your sympathy is going to be limited.  Don't do this stuff or bad things will happen to you.


quote:

Say for example it was against the law where i lived to sport an overgrown mullet.  Say for example one day Sirsholly came to me and asked me how to go about raising funds for charity. Now, instead of pointing her in the right direction,  I overreact and  start running around like the vikings had arrived to pillage my village; I tell her to remove herself from my sight as i cannot take her seriously while she looks like that, not to mention, its against the law!  The village leader gets involved and chastises her too, tellling her the nineteen-eighties have called and want their hairdo back. The rest of the villagers find this hilarious and all join and finger point, and agree how very DARE she roll on up on her motorcycle looking like that. sirsholly leaves not knowing anybetter how to solve the initial problem and now has a complex about her appearance. Now, this is a hypothetical. Let me remind you. I would not do this.


Wouldn't you?  While you might not if the trigger was just a hairstyle, what if someone barged into a social group you belonged to and did something that could get the whole group in trouble or attract unwanted attention to the group?  Let's say someone new joined your usual group at a social breakfast at the IHOP (the one that's frequented by cops) and wouldn't stop passing marijuana around?  Or perhaps you're out in public with a Munch group and people who know you from a vanilla setting might be in the same restaurant.  And that's okay, because everyone is supposed to be discreet and not flash their junk.  But then you get that one clueless individual showing up in skimpy fetish wear and bringing a flogger, despite the fact that the Munch rules say that you can't do that.  To make things worse, when the clueless person is reminded that they're doing something that can bring negative and unwanted attention on everyone in the group, they get angry and insult the group organizers for having those stupid rules in the first place.

How do you and your group treat this person?  Extra points if you can be really honest here.


quote:

and for those of you so concerned about the rules on this site, leave it to admin to govern i would say, thats what theyre there for isnt it? or at least thats what i would have thought.  a whole bunch of you jumping on someone like you did as i have said before is out of order.


It's out of professional order, yes.  That's what I was pointing out.  But it's still inherently predictable.  In the past, CM has been administered a bit more professionally and less by raw Social Darwinism.  Both are effective methods.  If you're not familiar with how Darwinism works, basically it means that organisms making choices detrimental either to their own survival or the group's survival tend not to survive.  Make a bad choice or do something foolish, win a Darwin Award.  In terms of evolution, the organism making bad choices doesn't live to breed.  In Social Darwinism, the consequences are metaphorical.  But these you have certainly invoked.


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