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RE: Domestic service - 5/24/2010 8:30:52 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

I think you are a very good person littlewonder.
In general, I think subs are very good people. Maybe even too good.
The only thing I am sometimes bothered with is "Do masters deserve subs being so good to them?"
Volunteering is a great thing!
I tend to think that it is a little better place for exercising your good will and giving nature.




You come across as really judgemental and condescending to me. Who are you to tell someone there could be a 'better place' for them?

I get that a lot of this BDSM stuff is mysterious to you, but I don't get your disdain for others that is so thinly veiled in the guise of questions.


Of course there are people that get off on serving someone. There are people that get off on any thing you can think of. Some look for more, some don't.

Every question that I've seen you ask a definitive answer for doesn't have a definitive answer. You are dealing with people which means incremental and enormous differences from one to the other. No two alike we are our own special snowflakes, we just happen to all be snowflakes within that.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across harshly but it seems that you are intelligent so I have trouble understanding your obstinence.

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Domestic service - 5/24/2010 8:51:31 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

while giving so little in return

Which shows you don't really understand the dynamic at all and are simply projecting your limited values onto everything else.

quote:

since everyone can reach orgasm quite easily by masturbation

This is very false, you should revise your thinking.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Domestic service - 5/24/2010 8:53:22 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

This is very false, you should revise your thinking.


I revised it:
Most of people, but not everyone, can reach orgasm quite easily by masturbation.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Domestic service - 5/24/2010 9:38:45 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline 		SocratesNot,
Firstly, it goes without saying that She was selfish.  But that is kind of an inherent aspect of the D/s dynamic.  The D-types tend to be a bit selfish and demanding.  So i'm not sure why that comes as a surprise to you.  Moreover, s-types don't mind the selfishness, and even enjoy catering to it.

i'm going to skip the middle part of your question.  Nothing to be gained by discussing whether women masturbate, or the merits of withholding other pleasures.

As far as what was pleasurable, it was the power exchange.  Power exchange is my kink.  i am a business person who is ALWAYS in control.  People always look to me for leadership and guidance.  So i enjoy any opportunity that i get to release the reins and let someone else take control.  Power exchange provides the same effect that drugs provide to some people; it gives me a temporary escape from my pressure filled world.

There was a tremendous amount of power exchange involved.  She was very demanding, and required a lot from me.  Both in terms of the amount of work, and the strict protocols.  Then when you add in the forced chastity, the amount of power exchange was extensive.

Most Dommes that i have been with are very considerate and understanding.  They know that the requirements of the real world come first.  But She was not like that.  She was not considerate, and was never understanding.  When She needed something, there were no excuses.  It didn't matter if i was in a meeting.  i had to find a way to excuse myself from the meeting (or whatever the obstacle was) and come serve Her.  If it was midnight and She called and told me to bring Her a banana split from Dairy Queen, She expected it within the hour.  That demanding aspect of Her leadership was very appealing.  You probably don't understand why that type of demanding dynamic is appealing, but i'm sure there are some subs on here who can relate.  i probably can't communicate it in a way that you'll comprehend.

i also enjoyed the forced chastity and Her complete control of my orgasms.  If you've never been involved with forced chastity or orgasm control, you probably won't understand why this was enjoyable either, but it was.  For a male sub, giving over complete control of your orgasms for 1.5 years is a HUGE sacrifice.  It is a level of submission that most male subs would/could never agree to.  Particularly to sacrifice it to a Domme who is giving you no sex in return.  i know this sounds crazy to you. 

In addition to the extended nature of the orgasm control, She pushed me to longer periods without sexual release than i had ever experienced.  The first time i went 2 months in a chastity device without any release, i thought i was going to die.  Then she made me go for 3 months.

i guess my relationship with Her was the D/s equivalent of climbing Mt. Everest.  She was the biggest challenge i had ever faced.  i didn't even know if i could hold up to Her extreme demands, Her strict protocols, and the extended chastity and orgasm control.  So when i DID, it was a source of great pride for me.

i should note that i courted Her for 2 years before She even let me serve Her.  Finally, She agreed to take me on.  So you can probably imagine my joy when  a year into my service, She wrote in Her blog that i was the best sub She had ever had.  She said that i was the first sub who had ever served Her selflessly.  She noted that i truly got pleasure simply from Her pleasure.  That made me feel good.

There were many other aspects that were appealing.  She wasn't just a caricature.  She was a person.  So W/we shared a lot of time together.  W/we talked continuously.  In fact, W/we probably talked more than most spouses do.  W/we became tremendous friends.  i had keys to Her home.  i knew Her deepest secrets.  i knew Her goals and aspirations.  i knew Her fears.  And She knew mine.

Despite the D/s aspects, it was a relationship.  W/we were two people who enjoyed one another's company, and who had great communications.  The D/s stuff became secondary.

That is not the type of relationship that i am looking for now.  But at the time, it was very rewarding.

Okay, did any of that make any sense to you, or are you completely baffled?

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Domestic service - 5/24/2010 9:42:28 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

since everyone can reach orgasm quite easily by masturbation

This is very false, you should revise your thinking.


SocratesNot,
Reaching orgasm through masturbation was not an option since She was the keyholder for my chastity devise.  Masturbation was impossible.  So She was able to make my orgasm dependent upon pleasing Her.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Domestic service - 5/24/2010 10:07:51 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		A lot of that made sense to me, I can even somewhat relate to these parts about her being so demanding. I think it was quite a good relationship.

I think there is a lot of excitement in satisfying someone so demanding. Like trying to pass hardest levels of video games or to run the marathon.
Since you have been talking so much with her and been so intimate, sort of like a with a very good friend, this is a little bit out of the my initial premise which was "domestic service, no strings attached" I thought that such elements as being close friends and sharing the deepest secrets were excluded.
But, it now doesn't really matter.
I can relate to your relationship a lot. I  understand it. You are definitely not nuts.
Sorry if I sounded offensive in the beginning.
I can imagine how exciting is to have someone who is so close to you, yet in almost total control of you. Your life was a wild ride. Kind of adventure.

My imagination of "domestic service" was quite a different from what you described. I imagined it like just having to work for someone on a regular basis without any other elements of relationship, especially not such emotional closeness etc.

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 5/24/2010 10:16:23 PM >

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 2:14:37 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

I think you are a very good person littlewonder.
In general, I think subs are very good people. Maybe even too good.
The only thing I am sometimes bothered with is "Do masters deserve subs being so good to them?"
Volunteering is a great thing!
I tend to think that it is a little better place for exercising your good will and giving nature.



it isnt a one way street - the sub isnt giving into a void, it isnt altruistic by any means.

a submissive gets a whole lot out of doing things, providing whatever and the Dominant understands that and in one form or another values, appreciates and respects it.

an elderly lady i know has just taken on a new cleaner/carer, shes only 17 and apparently 'cant do enough' - this girl is driven to provide the best she can and this elderly lady said to me 'i dont understand, where is her ambition in life, surely she wants more than this'.  im not saying this girl is sub at all, i havent met her, but im just making a point.  a Dom/me would understand that this girls ambition is to provide the best service she can and the subtle understanding between them even if unspoken would make her efforts all the more pleasurable and satisfying.

its hard for me to explain, but its this subtle understanding that makes all the difference

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 4:52:53 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

Just because you can't see what they get out of it doesn't mean they don't get anything. You're making unwarranted assumptions again.

For that matter, why would anyone volunteer for the Red Cross or to be a volunteer fire fighter? After all, they don't get anything out of it, or do they?


Because volunteering for the Red Cross or being a volunteer fire fighter is much more noble cause in my opinion and I think it can be much more fulfilling.
By doing so you help poor or sick people who are unable to help themselves. Or you save lives from fire, in case of firefighters. What is even more significant they don't even ask for help. You do it on your own, without them even demanding this.

While, on the other hand, in case of being a domestic slave, you are working for (in most cases, not always) perfectly healthy, capable people, without significant economic problems,  who can take care of themselves. Yet they ask for your service, demand it, and they give nothing in return.

I could even challenge the complete moral value of serving them. What impact will this have on them as persons? Can this maybe spoil them?
One of the meanings of this verb is this:

quote:

To ruin the character of, by overindulgence; to coddle or pamper to excess.


If you are spoiling someone are you doing good or bad to them?

I hope you see the difference between these two things (volunteering and domestic service).


What you don't understand is that just because it doesn't feel like a noble task to you doesn't mean that it doesn't feel like that to someone else.

As far as spoiling, by which you mean doing something really nice for a person without any expectation of getting anything in return, some of us don't like quid pro quo relationships. I like it when he does nice things for me just because he feels like it, not because I have somehow 'earned' it. I don't like things tied to other things because humans will mess up and if they can't get a loving gesture when they need it, which is never when they've earned it, then there's something wrong with the relationship.

Just because I'm capable of spending Saturday waiting to get my oil changed and then not being able to watch my son play basketball at the same time doesn't mean he spoils me when he changes the oil for me. It's a recognition that we are all busy people with conflicts in our lives.

Yes I could cook, clean, do laundry and then cut the grass at ten at night assuming my neighbors didn't complain about the noise. But I'd rather the teen did it while I do the cooking. Your assumptions include the dominant having enormous amounts of free time to do these things themselves which is rarely the case. You also assume that these chores will get done after everything more important is done, and frequently overwhelmed people just give up on certain chores because they don't have the time to do it.

It is a loving gesture to spend the free time you have, weeding someone else's garden, especially when you know she doesn't have the time to do so herself or has physical infirmities that make getting up and down painful or both.

The fact that you think this is wrong is immaterial because other people think of it as a kind and loving gesture, not as something which is aggressive and demanding. "I spent an hour weeding your garden so now you must spend an hour playing with me the way I want to be played with". That's quid pro quo and that's unpleasant as all hell.

Or are you saying you've never carried in the groceries for your mother to spare her? Because she's still able bodied and obviously you're spoiling her by making a loving gesture.

But sn, I think I'm done. You don't want to learn anything and you're clinging to your closed mind. Those are attributes I detest, so go on telling all of us we're wrong because we don't think like you. And we'll go on putting you on ignore.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 6:55:19 AM   
wtf4lol


Posts: 6
Joined: 5/21/2010
Status: offline
quote:

What do you think about this type of relationship, where the slave simply does all the housework for the Domme and run errands for her, and gets nothing in return. And that's all. No sex, no strings attached. Nothing more. At the same time she has other relationship(s) which maybe include male or female lovers, and the slave just works for her, without being paid for his work.


"nothing in return" ... that you can see, that is obvious, like the things you listed as usual suspects in the rewards department.

What?! No sex? Then WHY would you clean the kitchen???

Before your post made me stop to think about this I would have said something utterly selfless about service being its own reward, but now I am rethinking my assumptions. Maybe it is wrong of me not to want and expect sex in return for not just cleaning, but anything else I might do, or, when I refrain from doing something I wanted to do. It might take some effort but I am going to see if I can't reconcile an entitlement to sexual reward with an attitude of servitude. I'll report back if I have any success.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 7:15:33 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Socrates,

It can be very difficult for vanillas (or vanillas who are new to D/s) to get their heads around these things without grasping some of the basics. The added trouble is that submissives themselves often don't understand why they're the way they are.

For me, service is something that gives me a rise, a turn-on. I would like to cast it in terms that sound more noble - but there it is. I'm not a Launcelot or a Galahad who takes great joy in serving his exalted Lady. I'm a weird sod who will spend all day with a semi-stiffy solely because I'm doing jobs for a woman who I find sexually attractive. If she and I were to have sex at the end of that day, I'd be so wildly wound up by the day's servicing of her that I'd go at it like a deranged bull. Otherwise, I'll have glorious sausage-time on my own.

Beneath that service-kick, the most fundamental thing about D/s for me is unfairness. Shocking, excruciating, moral unfairness. I don't know why I should get off on this unfairness, but I do. It seems ridiculous that my head should be put together like this; it's illogical and unreasonable and even contrary to the laws of nature - but, again, there it is.

A lot of this stuff only makes sense if you understand that, right at the root of it all . . . it doesn't make sense!

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 7:27:05 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Socrates,

It can be very difficult for vanillas (or vanillas who are new to D/s) to get their heads around these things without grasping some of the basics. The added trouble is that submissives themselves often don't understand why they're the way they are.

For me, service is something that gives me a rise, a turn-on. I would like to cast it in terms that sound more noble - but there it is. I'm not a Launcelot or a Galahad who takes great joy in serving his exalted Lady. I'm a weird sod who will spend all day with a semi-stiffy solely because I'm doing jobs for a woman who I find sexually attractive. If she and I were to have sex at the end of that day, I'd be so wildly wound up by the day's servicing of her that I'd go at it like a deranged bull. Otherwise, I'll have glorious sausage-time on my own.

Beneath that service-kick, the most fundamental thing about D/s for me is unfairness. Shocking, excruciating, moral unfairness. I don't know why I should get off on this unfairness, but I do. It seems ridiculous that my head should be put together like this; it's illogical and unreasonable and even contrary to the laws of nature - but, again, there it is.

A lot of this stuff only makes sense if you understand that, right at the root of it all . . . it doesn't make sense!


That is absolutely fascinating post! So extremely sincere and open! I really appreciate it!
The one of the reasons I choose the name SocratesNot is because I am fascinated  by Socrates' ability to extract the truth from people even when this truth is extremely inconvenient. Well I am not nearly as good as he is, that's why I added the suffix Not.
However, I think that I just accomplished one Socratic deed.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 7:30:16 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you for the compliment! I'm glad to be of service. (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. )

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 7:30:18 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		On the advice of my attorney, and moderator.

I have no comment on the last post.

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 10:22:55 AM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		Perhaps the service submissive is being spoiled when they are allowed the privilege of serving?

A bit ago I was at a munch where there were free re-fills on pop/soda. Plus the orders were picked up at the front counter. I wasn't long before I was the one leaving the separate room we were in to pick up other people's food orders and refilling their glasses. Was I spoiling them? Perhaps. But I felt spoiled because I was with people who understood my need to be of service and accepted it as a way of gifting me with a chance to submit. Since Santa's passing all of my serving has felt very dominant and I am uncomfortable with that feeling. It's so lovely for me to serve in a way that is understood and accepted by the recipients. My service was a gift to me from the others there.

Does that help?

_____________________________

"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
(uncollared 12/21/09 with his death. RIP my Santa)

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 7:24:47 PM   
subartist


Posts: 43
Joined: 8/31/2007
Status: offline 		I can't help but respond to this one, though I don't mean this to be at all judgmental towards you.  I have also been in a strict domestic servitude relationship (or arrangement rather?) with a dominant woman.  But if your Domme kept you in chastity and controlled your orgasms, then it definitely was a sexual relationship, though limited, and very much based on denial.  But chastity and orgasm control are very sexual...

quote:

i have been in the type of relationship that you describe. However, i'm not sure that you will understand my motivations. i was actually reluctant to respond, because you frame your question in a way that is inherently judgmental. Perhaps i am being overly sensitive, but when i read your OP, what i hear is "Is there anybody out there who is stupid enough to be in a relationship like this?" i'm sure you don't mean it like that, but that is the way i interpret it.

Having said that, i served a Domme for 1.5 years with a dynamic that is exactly what you described. i cleaned Her home, did Her yard work, shoveled snow from Her driveway and walkway, washed Her windows, did most of Her shopping for Her, and was often called upon to run errands for Her like bringing Her an ice cream sundae or picking up personal product for Her.

There was NEVER any sex in our relationship. In fact, to show my gratitude for the privilege of serving Her, each time i finished my work i had to kiss Her ass as a sign of my appreciation. The figurative message in this ritual was not lost on me.

She was extremely high protocol, and had very demanding rituals that i had to fulfill. i was kept in chastity throughout our relationship. She used orgasm as a reward for serving Her properly. In fact, the ONLY times i was allowed orgasm was as a reward for pleasing Her. She believed that men are selfish in their desire for orgasm, and that they need to learn that true pleasure should come from pleasing one's Mistress. Therefore, i had to be "re-programmed" to understand that orgasm is a direct benefit of proper service. Pleasing one's Mistress results in orgasm. For 1.5 years, She controlled EVERY orgasm i had. My sexual gratification was completely at Her whim. And i quickly learned that when i wanted/needed to cum, i had to do something to please Her. So i would be even more diligent in my service. i would make sure that Her yard was extra well-maintained, or that Her house was extra clean.

She controlled many other aspects of my life as well. Yet, i have never seen Her naked. Never had sex with Her. Never licked Her pussy. Never seen Her bare breasts. Our relationship was not about sex. It was about power exchange. She was in charge, and i served Her.

Despite sounding rather one-sided, i enjoyed O/our relationship tremendously. i don't know if you can even fathom how i can say this. But the relationship was very rewarding. Her authority was unquestionable, and the mere opportunity to serve Her was a gift.

(i actually hate sharing personal experiences like this, because so many seem willing to judge "service subs". i was quite reluctant to share this story. But i think SocratesNot needs to know that some of us are happy in situations that he cannot fathom anyone taking pleasure in).
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 8:18:05 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline 		Yes, i agree in part.  But it is only sexual in a way that a sub would find sexual.  Most vanillas would probably find chastity and denial to be far from sexual.  In fact, most would have a difficult time understanding how you can call the absence of sex to be sexual. 

Do you think that most vanilla guys would say that being denied orgasm or sexual contact of any type for 3 months qualifies as a "sexual experience"?

You may note that in one of SocratesNot's early posts, he even stated a similar thought, and described the Domme as being selfish.  He also believed that the sub was getting nothing in return.  i disagreed with his assessment.

i think that SocratesNot perceives a "sexual relationship" to include traditional romantic activities.

But i definitely see your point, and i agree with you. 

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 5/25/2010 8:28:51 PM >

(in reply to subartist)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 10:08:51 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Do you think that most vanilla guys would say that being denied orgasm or sexual contact of any type for 3 months qualifies as a "sexual experience"?


Yes, this is sexual, because it is focused on sex. This is the same as dieting. People who diet are focused on food, even though they eat much less than usually.
And even though people who diet do lose weight, they are very conscious of it, and the amount of weight lost is spectacular only if they are very disciplined.
Also, when the diet is over, they tend to return some of the weight lost.

However, it si quite possible to lose substantial weight without any dieting at all. This happens when people are overwhelmed by some kind of work, studying or maybe even social interactions, so that food becomes of very little importance to them. In that case they are not focused on food.

When it comes to orgasms. I usually tend to jerk off few times a day. Once I made conscious effort not to jerk off for 2 weeks and I succeeded. First few days I tended to think about it, so this was somewhat sexual, but it wasn't very arousing, since it was self imposed. If someone else told me (for example a very attractive woman) not to jerk off, it would probably be arousing since I would think of her every time jerking off comes to my mind. Since it wasn't the case, it wasn't much of a sexual experience, but even in this case, first few days I was focused on it, because I made conscious effort not to jerk off.

However, when I was on the excursion with high school, we traveled many European cities for 10 days, and we were socializing and having fun 24/7. And drinking a lot as well. In such situation, the circumstances did not allow me to jerk off, so I didn't, but I wasn't even thinking about it, because, I was focused on other things.

So I could define 4 forms of chastity.

First, forced chastity because attractive woman told you to do this, this is completely sexual experience.
Second, self imposed chastity, to see how long can you endure without orgasm, this is somewhat sexual experience, especially in first days of the efforts.
Third, long term self imposed celibacy, in the beginning it is sexual, gradually becomes more and more asexual because you come to terms with it and accept it.
Fourth, absence of orgasms due to circumstances or due to being focused on other things, this is completely asexual.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 10:21:03 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		My initial concept of domestic servitude was that it is a relationship in which the domme doesn't gives a shit for you, your orgasms, denial, teasing, your deep secrets, controlling you in any way etc. She only wants her house cleaned, her food cooked, etc, and not in a very exciting way (such as calling you to do something for her in the midnight or when you should be on a conference), but in a boring way, when you simply must do your chores in a predictable way, on a regular basis.

My concept of domestic servitude was of a traditional relationship between a female employer (lady in charge of house) and a domestic worker, in which the worker is simply not paid, nor provided board and lodging.

This is the kind of relationship that I will hardly ever understand, but this kind of relationship is substantially different from the relationship in which you were involved Rochsub.
When it comes to your relationship, I understand it now completely.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 11:44:00 PM   
BabieGothika


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline 		I love to do the domestic work for my Master, i clean the house, cook His meals, do the laundry, ect but i have sex too. For me there is not BDSM without sex, im a woman and i need what i need

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Domestic service - 5/25/2010 11:50:45 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		BabieGothika, you are enchanting! 

(in reply to BabieGothika)
Profile   Post #: 40
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