RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (Full Version)

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LadyHibiscus -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 2:41:03 PM)

Oh FFS. I just read the piece where I am supposed to be a lesbian or a sissy lover. When I am attracted to jarheads IRL and I am 1% lesbian.

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ReginaMirus -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 2:41:21 PM)

Ironic too, that I'd written those exact same words in a blog entry almost a year ago.







SocratesNot -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 2:46:07 PM)

The part that dominant women are "quite often lesbian"  is "quite often", just that,  not always. And it really is "quite often" in comparison to other women. And there really are many sissy boys and gender bending in femdom relationships. This is what LNT stated in her post on the thread "Maledom relationships vs Femdom relationships". If I am wrong, she probably isn't. She knows better then me.

We are learning some things actually.




LillyoftheVally -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 2:46:40 PM)

FR

I studied sociology academically for five years, one of the last things one of my tutors said to me was 'if you ever go into analysis you are going to have to lie a lot' anyone who studies society, human beings, psychology knows that theories are just that, and not one applies to all. Earlier the OP said he would not defend his theory I am guessing because that really isn't what he was after, not discussion not listening just saying what he thinks whether it has any real basis or not.

The external internal definition is, to me, a flawed division when it comes to human beings and so I found little point in reading the rest, even less point in asking anything due to the OP's stance.




LadyPact -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 2:47:03 PM)

Lady H, funny thing about that.  Just how many posts do I have around here about specifically not being attracted in any way to anything remotely feminine in partners?

Regina, just to clarify.  Are you remarking about the concept of only physical needs being actual needs (which is My own opinion) or something else?  There are some pretty good past threads about it.  If you're interested, I'll see if I can hunt them down for you.  Pretty good discussion, if I'm remembering correctly, even though My opinion isn't the majority on the matter.






jbcurious -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 2:48:17 PM)

I had enough of his "I see the light" flip flops on the sub thread... I can't believe ya all got sucked in again...[;)]




SocratesNot -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 2:51:46 PM)

As you see, LillyoftheVally, I changed my mind. I am actually defending parts of this theory that still seem true to me.
I said that I won't defend it just because I was awaited with quite negative reaction from the beginning.

However, I agree 110% with you when you say:
quote:

'if you ever go into analysis you are going to have to lie a lot'


This is absolutely ture. However this doesn't imply that we should never analyze anything. All the sciences always analyze things.




ReginaMirus -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 2:52:42 PM)

Yes, precisely. Here's what I wrote...

quote:

For once in my life, I'm finally comfortable enough in my own skin to accept the fact that I just may be single the rest of my life. In my younger years, I really could not say that, and the mere thought of not having some MAYUN in my life would send me into a tailspin. But I've come to the realization that my friends, my family and my kids fulfil me quite adequately.

I may WANT him, but I don't NEED him. Some people cannot perceive the difference.


Personally, I think this has nothing to do with dominance and everything to do with maturity and overall LIFE experience.




lucylucy -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 2:55:00 PM)

SN, I'm still waiting for you to tell us what your theory is based on. Reading? Personal experiences? Observations? As I've already said, your theory doesn't fit me and my experience, but I would be able to consider it as a decent theory if I had an understanding of the evidence you considered. You haven't said a word about the evidence you considered to build this theory . . . it is built on evidence, right?




LadyPact -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 3:05:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ReginaMirus

Yes, precisely. Here's what I wrote...

quote:

For once in my life, I'm finally comfortable enough in my own skin to accept the fact that I just may be single the rest of my life. In my younger years, I really could not say that, and the mere thought of not having some MAYUN in my life would send me into a tailspin. But I've come to the realization that my friends, my family and my kids fulfil me quite adequately.

I may WANT him, but I don't NEED him. Some people cannot perceive the difference.


Personally, I think this has nothing to do with dominance and everything to do with maturity and overall LIFE experience.


It's a good line of thinking.  I'll have to take a look around for that thread that I was thinking of.  In it, there were some excellent comments as they related to D/s about the difference in the ways people viewed the concept of wanting rather than needing the person on the other side of the kneel.  There were some good contributions from the other viewpoint as well.  It might take a little while to find it, as the keywords want and need are used quite often and would make for lousy search criteria. 

Maybe some other folks out there might remember the thread?  If someone does, could you help?





SocratesNot -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 3:12:58 PM)

lucylucy, when it comes to evidence I will tell you about it:

For other posters, this is IMPORTANT PART.  I am actually talking about the EVIDENCE for my theory.
- for last few years I have read many blogs about both maledom and femdom relationships
- I have visited many forums and sites about BDSM
- I have engaged in in depth conversations about this topic with a Domme who happens to be a friend of mine
- I have read many psychology and sociology books
- I have read many articles and studies about sadomasochism
- I have read some books that Erich Fromm wrote, such as Fear of Freedom, Anatomy of Human Destructiveness, etc
- I have experienced some dominant traits in my own character
- I have experienced fetishistic attraction to BDSM porn
- I have experienced some submissive tendencies as well
- I have actually been in a relationship as a submissive (it was online, based on service, without financial domination elements, and without much humiliation) with a domme for about two months and I didn't have very good experience in such relationship. That's when I discovered that I am probably not a submissive despite being attracted to femdom porn and fantasy. This is a relationship that I don't want to think about and don't feel very comfortable about. I would never mentioned it if you didn't press me to present some evidence. In this relationship I did experience ups and downs of being a submissive, and concluded that this is probably not for me. I say probably, because if the domme was different, maybe it would be a completely different story.
- and finaly yes, I WAS NEVER IN ANY IN PERSON D/s RELATIONSHIP, but I still think that I do know some things, and I do know enough to offer a theory which shouldn't be treated like a Holy Bible, but open to various criticisms, changes, removing some parts, adding some new parts, and different interpretations.
- also I did feel insecure many times in my life and I am not hiding this thing.
- and also, I have some natural abilities such as reason, logic, induction, deduction, intuition and intelligence.
Of course you have all the rights in the world to think that all my natural reasoning abilities suck.
So this is my evidence, if you want to know.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 3:15:14 PM)

So... there really isn't any evidence.




SocratesNot -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 3:24:25 PM)

Lady Pact, I would like you to read my OP, there is a part in which I mentioned the other type of dommes who are not attracted to sissies and feminine men.




Mercnbeth -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 3:33:29 PM)

this slave isn't sure why you ignored her question before, so she will ask it again, albeit somewhat diferently worded:

why does your theory leave out the possibility of a submissive personality who isn't into it for the 7 levels of pleasure you allude to, negative conditioning or the "fear of rejection"?
we all get it that certain folks who choose to be submissive to their intimate partners have dominant personalities otherwise, but what about, y'know, just "natural" submissives...like your theory claims certain dominants are?




LadyPact -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 3:34:23 PM)

I WAS NEVER IN ANY IN PERSON D/s RELATIONSHIP.

Since your other post that was directed to Me seems to have *disappeared*, I want you to look at this with Me.

If you read all about classical music online, read blogs from musicians, even looked at the sheet music on a piece of paper in black and white, that wouldn't necessarily make you experienced.  Listening to the music itself might bring you a little closer.  Still, this would not make you a concert violinist and it wouldn't make you feel the way they feel inside when they played or are inspired by music.  It's been said that just about anybody can copy notes played, but only a talented musician can express their heart and soul through music which makes it beautiful.

You've not felt what this is all about.  It hasn't touched you. 

I could read for the next ten years about the life of men in Africa.  It's not going to make Me a man in Africa.




LadyPact -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 3:38:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Lady Pact, I would like you to read my OP, there is a part in which I mentioned the other type of dommes who are not attracted to sissies and feminine men.

You mean because in there somewhere it says......

"Some people are straight and are more sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex and persons who are not gender fluid."


If you re-post it in a way that I can actually read, such as quoting the sections that you would like Me to address, please do it in such a way that it does not need to be removed.




SocratesNot -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 3:42:42 PM)

Mercnbeth, I agree with you that there is a possibility that natural submissives exist. However such possibility is quite slim, because having completely submissive personality does not have many evolutionary advantages. It may have reproductive advantages, for example attractive dominant partners, but, it does not have many advantages for survival. Responding submissively to entire world is not the best strategy for survival, so this is not very natural. Naturally submissive people can only be protected when they are protected by natural dominants, but without their protection, they can be in a lot of trouble.

So, I think naturally submissive people do exist, and thank you for pointing this to me. This was one of the flaws of my theory, and this is where the theory has to be changed.

I just think that there is not many such, completely naturally submissive people. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones who found the fulfillment with your Master, as a natural submissive. Carol may be another example.

Yes, I really need to introduce this category into my theory - natural submissives. I will try to describe them based on experiences of people like you, Carol, and others.




lucylucy -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 3:45:42 PM)

Pretty much all your evidence is from secondary and tertiary sources. Pretty thin stuff for a grandiose theory like this. Your theory isn't ready for "various criticisms, changes, removing some parts, adding some new parts, and different interpretations." You still need to do the actual research on which a theory could be based. Don't go in with a hypothesis. Experience some things and talk to a large enough sample of people to justify a theory like this--in-depth conversations with one domme are not enough. THEN, look at the data you've gathered and make generalizations based on it, not based on your own opinions.




SocratesNot -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 3:49:28 PM)

LadyPact I quoted it twice and it was removed. I'll try again:

quote:

The third type are insecure dommes.
The reason for their dominance is similar to that of insecure male doms. But, since the society does not say that women
should be dominant, they cope with these feelings differently than male doms. In order to feel satisfied with themselves and
to avoid feeling of inferiority, they simply need to dominate men, usually strong alpha men. It's a challenge for them. The
more manly man they dominate, the greater is their accomplishment and the less insecure they will feel. Such dommes are
usually more cruel then natural alpha women that I previously described, because they are attracted to partners that are
not naturally so submissive. So they need to break them. In breaking them they can be very cruel. They also usually demand
strict obedience, observance of rituals and even worship, because if they lack it, their feelings of insecurity or inferiority return.


However, you should also note that the fact that need to dominate is based on insecurity does not make you a bad person. I am also very insecure about
many aspects of myself. Also, cruelty in D/s sense is not evil. It is mutually satisfying interaction, and it is consensual.
If it happens to be cruel, it just is this way. Cruelty is integral part of BDSM, and is nothing to be ashamed of.

Also I will quote another part where I mentioned positive aspects which are present in every BDSM relationship:


quote:

Next, I want to say, that it is a good thing for all of these mentioned groups to enter D/s relationships.
Furthermore, submissives and insecure dominants of both genders actually need it. Natural alpha men and women don't
need it
, but they can enjoy it as well. So in most D/s relationships everyone is satisfied.
If real submissives don't enter D/s relationship they will most likely be treated badly by people who don't understand them
and they will be submissive anyway. In D/s relationship their needs are understood and submission is ritualized and sexualized
and feels good. In D/s relationship they will be rewarded for their submission, and also for some subs the submission is a reward
in itself
Insecure dominants would probably be bullies in vanilla relationships. So, it is also very good for them to enter D/s relationship
where they will satisfy their need to dominate in structured, ritualized way, and where they will be met with people who are
willing to please them, satisfy them and understand them.
Except for the need to dominate or submit, none of the groups mentioned have any flaws in character any more than all the
other people do.
Also, the need to dominate or submit is not a flaw of character when it is satisfied in safe and understanding environment of
D/s relationship.


So that's it. I really don't want to offend you or anyone else.
If you think that you are not insecure, I'm perfectly OK with it. Maybe my theory is flawed. Or maybe you are a notable exception to the rule.





WinsomeDefiance -> RE: An interesting theory of D/s (my own) (5/26/2010 4:03:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

You don't have to experience something yourself in order to understand it.
.....
I'm not going to defend my theory. P.S.

Whenever someone tries to make ANY theory about ANY type of human behavior, some people will be offended. This is simply impossible to avoid if you want to make a theory that aspires to reveal some truth.



HI SNot (sorry, couldn't resist!)

All I have to say about your theory is that many people who become interested in (insert kink/orientation here) tend to try and analyze it to great extents. I do not think doing this is a bad thing. We want to understand the hows and whys and whatifs of the situations we find ourselves in. Introspection can be a good thing.

I do challenge you to defend, rethink, repostulate any theory you espouse.

Now, to answer your statement about not needing to experience something to understand it, I would like to offer a little of my own personal perspective.

I spent a time as a collared slave. Before I had experienced it, my attitude was completely different. I'll offer a couple examples of before/after thinking.

I wept when I was told I would no longer be called Charlote, and was given a new name. Not a boohoo is me weeping, but a soul wrenching, heartbroken expression of my perceived loss of identity. I hated the name and the very concept of being renamed. Before I experienced the unexpected visceral reaction, I would have scoffed at anyone who said they cried over something so "silly."

There was a time when I'd bordered upon something of a masochist. Not to the extent of actually being a masochist, but I could take a pretty good beating and enjoy it. When I begged for the collar and accepted it, part of the ritual was to kneel naked and accept three lashes. Now, for a borderline masochist, who could take a beating, that didn't seem like such a big deal. My experiences, thus far, had not prepared me for the emotional pain of being hurt for no other reason than the person who owned me chose to hurt me. Again, these visceral responses to our experiences cannot be known through theory and speculation.

Theory is great. Processing knowledge is wonderful. But never be afraid to defend, challenge, rethink and more importantly live out the experiment of your experiences with your own theories.

Best wishes in your search.

WinD

PS - you seem to have some switch tendencies.....I look forward to reviewing your "thoughts" on switches in a year or two, after you've had some experiences to base your theories on. I bet you'll be surprised about a few things.




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