Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE Page: <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 9:27:24 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

It's not a desire to be devoid of desires but not to allow desires to translated into fixations or entitlements.


I think you are trying to use Buddhism just to support your theory that removal of entitlements causes bliss.



This is not what I am saying. The removal of entitlements do not cause bliss. Consider entitlements more like road blocks that hinder it. But this doesn't equate that removing them will in fact cause it to occur. I believe there is more to it than just removing things that hinder it's occurance.

quote:


But I have a question for you -  are you entitled to your slave's obedience?
If you are, why is entitlement good for you, and bad for them?



I am entitled to her obedience like she is entitled to my command but this . You seem to have the impression that I am advocating the removal of all entitlements from the slave. Infact, I believe that entitlements can when rationally established in manner that promotes the developement of a relationship towards a state of happiness for those involved to be critical. But, in the dynamic of a M/s relationship those entitlements are going to be different than one would find in a authority shared dynamic. Secondly, I am also not suggesting that entitlements are good for me and bad for her. The entitlements that is established in my dynamic must be Good for the relationship and the relationship must be good for those within it. But universallly, entitlements are not good or bad. It has been my experience within my dynamic that the fewer entitlements we have within our relationship the better it has been for the relationship. Other's approaches will likely differ, but because they are different doesn't make ours wrong for us.

The irony is that I don't worry about if they will obey or that I am entitled to such obedience. My confidence in who I am and who they are tells me that they will obey because that is who they are within our dynamic very much like who I am compells me to command my slaves. It is not a question of entitlement or expecations we have of each other. It is more the confidence and security to be who we are with each other within this relationship. There is freedom and bliss to be who we are and the more we be who we are the more driven and full of desire we have to be US.

There is freedom to know when I tell one of my girls to do X that they will do X to the best of their ability. The longer that this dynamic between myself and my two girls go the less and less concerned I am with regards to entitlements, expectations, requirements etc. I have grown to be come more focused on the desire of being US and realize bit by bit over the course of time that being us is what we will be. We could not longer not be us any more than the sun couldn't rise tomorrow. What is is and we are US.



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/28/2010 1:03:04 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8



Uh huh.

Good luck with that.

Oh, we don't rely on luck. Instead we have a different method that has been working fairly well during our 15 year relationship. Utilizing common sense, having good communicastion skills, being open-minded and compatible, relying on each other rather than luck might not work for everyone but it certainly works for us. ::chuckles:: But, um, thanks for the well wishes? Oh, and good luck with your agenda.



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Silence8)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/28/2010 8:08:08 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline 		SocratesNot,

quote:

Wouldn't you still be his without being his slave?


I find fulfillment in possession. It wouldn't be the same. Seriously.

quote:

Have you met him in some BDSM-ish setting where you from beginning decided it will be M/s relationship, or it began as vanilla and transformed to M/s?


Let me see if I can explain this in simple terms. A man that desires a submissive won't be interested in me. I require much more. We're not well matched. Men who seek a service oriented slave with a deep compulsion to surrender might look my way. I appeal to a very select group. But the reverse is true as well.

Although some have successfully transformed relationships from non kink to M/s I'm not willing to do the same. I've gone too far and the divide would be too vast. He needs to outpace me, not the reverse. I'm pretty fixed on what I want. I will not engage with someone that has never done IE or has no understanding of O/p. But that's my bias.

As for venues, although connections can occur it has never been my preferred avenue. I like to interact with a prospective partner outside of BDSM contexts. You learn a great deal that way. I am yielding to the person and I need to know what that means. All the kink in the world does little if he's an experienced jerk.

quote:

Whose idea was to try M/s relationship, your or his?


There is no idea involved. If we engage I'll be his slave or property. Whichever he decides. There's no other option.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/28/2010 8:22:17 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		I will ask a little off-topic and maybe even a little sexist question:

Can a woman internally enslave a man?

The overwhelming majority of IE cases are those where the man is the Master.
Also, Jeff said, he would be able to completely yield to Carol, and to obey her slavishly in everything, if this was what makes her happy. But still, he wouldn't be internally enslaved, he would keep the dominant mindset.

Can a woman really own a man, fully, completely, absolutely, in Internal Enslavement sense? ( Actually, the IE website describes only situations where man is the master) Can a woman "master" a man?


< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 5/28/2010 8:23:17 AM >

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/28/2010 8:37:03 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
Also, Jeff said, he would be able to completely yield to Carol, and to obey her slavishly in everything, if this was what makes her happy. But still, he wouldn't be internally enslaved, he would keep the dominant mindset.

No, this is not what Jeff said. Jeff said that he would submit from a dominant mindset. I don't use the term IE because I find it's various tenets imprecise, it's logic to be faulty to the point of non-existent, and oft-time it's practitioners to be pompous idiots (well, moreso over at that other site than here for the last bit). It's also worth noting that by my rough count (very rough, opinion based, and not to be confused with fact), perhaps 80% of the submissives I see here and in the real world submit from a dominant mindset which makes that, by far, the "norm". Only about 5% react the way Carol does -- much more than 5% though when I attend real life MAST meetings. But clearly, submitting from a dominant mindset is not "fake" since it compromises in my mind the great majority of submissives.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/28/2010 8:41:28 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline 		SocratesNot,

quote:

Can a woman internally enslave a man?


Yes.

quote:

Can a woman really own a man, fully, completely, absolutely, in Internal Enslavement sense? ( Actually, the IE website describes only situations where man is the master) Can a woman "master" a man?


Tanos wrote that from the male perspective for obvious reasons. That's what he's drawing on. However, male slaves can be enslaved just like females. Their need to yield and serve isn't any less than our own.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/28/2010 8:57:10 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		The easy answer to your questions are simply yes its possible. I know technically it is an ability some women have and some men need. This has always been a hard question for me because personally my instinctive answer is no, my mind cannot wrap itself around the whys of a woman would actively want to enslave a man and more so want a man who can be enslaved and would actively pursue enslaving men. However, select women have been enslaving men throughout history. I also have a hard time with a man needing to be mastered. I don't believe that slavery is a concept based on the need to please and serve due to people who are not slaves -- i.e., subs and some dominants find fulfillment of needs by pleasing and serving.

But i admit it, i am biased and sexist with regard to stuff like this. However, i do acknowledge and understand that yes it is done and yes it does happen and yes people thrive in it, but much like S/m, i don't understand the WHY's behind the participant's decisions so its something i don't involve myself in trying to explain the ins and outs of it to people due to my ignorance of the whys.

I don't know however, how many men hold themselves in mastery in the name of being submissive to women, rather than the woman actually holding the man through her mastery of him.

angel



< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/28/2010 8:58:59 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/28/2010 9:01:22 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Jeff what does submit from a dominant mindset mean. Seems oxymoronic with regards to being a slave.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/28/2010 8:33:07 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		Another interesting question is - why are people usually slaves to someone who happens to be a sadist as well? Wouldn't it also be wonderful to be a perfect obedient slave for someone who is kind, caring, mild and without any sadistic streak at all?
But he would still demand your full obedience, however his commands would never have any sadistic, degrading or humiliating elements in it and he would always command you to do things that are best for you. You would still have to please him as well, to work for him, etc.
But why is that so rare to be a slave to someone who isn't a sadist at all?


_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/28/2010 8:38:54 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		If they weren't sadistic, weren't masochistic, and weren't into bondage, I'd be unhappy. I need at least one of those elements to be content in my relationship. I prefer having a power exchange as well if possible, but S/M is a higher priority.

Also, I don't feel that being a slave is intrinsically riskier than being a submissive, a bottom, a top, or a Dominant, or in a vanilla relationship. If you date someone who is a jerk, it doesn't matter what the dynamic is, you'll be miserable. If they are a sociopath or engage in domestic violence, you are not safe. If the two of you are a good match, and they are trustworthy, it's fairly unlikely that they will do anything deliberately to damage you.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 5/28/2010 8:40:58 PM >

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/29/2010 6:22:31 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

Now here is the part 85% of the people won't like. You don't NEED to know what his thoughts are. Yuo don't need a choice. You don't have the right to know. Kinda harsh and scary concepts, yes? However, once you as a slave become comfortable with these concepts, your life will be a lot more feeling of secure and balance. Many slaves especially within the first year instinctively fight for controls they have had without thinking in other relationships. The control over their relationship, the control that they are "entitled" to certain things from their "partners" and the most instinctive, the right to know.


You know, angel, I was all set to get indignant and say "what a load of bull!" then I stopped and thought "damn she's right".....and it's scary. It scares me that I no longer have the right to know what Master's plan is for me, it just is. I know that I need to learn to relax and just accept that he holds the reins and the control and all I have to do is relax and let him drive. "All" I have do do....jeez it sounds so easy but in practice it's hard to do. But as you have said the first year is the hardest, full of struggles for control we slaves no longer have. I just hope it gets easier.....please tell me it gets easier!?

zeph


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/29/2010 7:09:56 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Years ago there was a thread on Entitlement if anyone is interested:

Entitlement




Thanks for the link, kyra One of the hardest things for me to do is letting go of that sense of entitlement with respect to the right to know....well....everything Master is doing and the plans he has for me. Accepting that he has the controls is the other one. Of course the fact that we don't (yet) live together only makes it all the harder as the time we apart gives me altogether too much time to think....which is deadly.


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/29/2010 8:10:45 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot


But why is that so rare to be a slave to someone who isn't a sadist at all?



It isnt

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/29/2010 9:13:10 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel


Now here is the part 85% of the people won't like. You don't NEED to know what his thoughts are. Yuo don't need a choice. You don't have the right to know. Kinda harsh and scary concepts, yes? However, once you as a slave become comfortable with these concepts, your life will be a lot more feeling of secure and balance. Many slaves especially within the first year instinctively fight for controls they have had without thinking in other relationships. The control over their relationship, the control that they are "entitled" to certain things from their "partners" and the most instinctive, the right to know.


I don't disagree with this but I don't think it goes far enough. There are consequences to not knowing what your partner is thinking whether or not one is entitled to know. I speak only from my own experience, of course, but when I first met Himself, he told me that one of his goals in life was to, one day, work in Europe, at least for a while. Michael is the sort of man who makes things happen and if that was a goal, I was pretty sure that *one day* would eventually come around so when he came to me and said there was an opportunity for a really good job in Portugal with an chance for growth and that he was going to apply and thought he had a good chance to get it, I was prepared, in theory, for a new phase. Sure enough, about 10 months later we were living in Portugal. I knew up front of this possibility and wanted to be with him anyway even though I knew I might have to leave my family, my culture, my language, food etc, all behind. By him sharing that with me, it enabled *me* to make an initial decision on whether I wanted to be with a man who might, one day, take me away from everyone and everything I know. I choose *yes* to that but could just as easily have chosen *no* and gone off on my own seeking someone who would be compatible with me.. or, just being by myself which is fine as well.


It would make for one pretty foolish master and one who I doubt is going to be able to keep a woman much less master her if she has to guess at things because she doesn't have the right to know. Michael's wife refused to move from Florida to the West Coast and, rightfully, she never knew it was even a possibility and the move he made without her, ultimately, severed their relationship. He would have had no qualms about moving to Portugal without me either but the difference is, I knew up front it was a possibility and choose to be with him anyway.

The other thing about withholding information whether it's the big stuff or the small stuff, is the sort of service a Master can expect from a slave if he fails to explain exactly what it is that he does want from her. I can't serve anyone very well if I don't know them.. otherwise it's all guess work on my part and then the service comes from my own direction instead of his. If I feel like having shrimp for dinner and he doesn't let me know he wants steak, then he's coming home to a shrimp dinner, so it does behoove a dominant partner to share. So, I agree, I don't think slaves do have the *right* to know.. but within that parameter, a Master doesn't have the *right* to expect their slave to be a mindreader and above all, the big stuff that's not shared up front, before that collar is slapped on, can cause more problems than it's really worth if there are hidden aspects that might have made someone make a different initial decision about whether that collar was going on at all.


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/29/2010 9:20:05 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
But why is that so rare to be a slave to someone who isn't a sadist at all?
Sampling Error SN. Consider this. You are on a BDSM board. In the BDSM world, the SM part (predictably) is very prevalent. Coincidentally, the BDSM world is also the same group of folks that gave us terms and concepts to think of relationships in this way. So (and this is somewhat unfortunate) I find that the only place for someone like me to discuss this stuff is with a group of folks that I have only partial overlap with. But really, that's not so bad. We have overlap where it matters to me and I ignore the rest. Accordingly, when I am here, I adopt their terminology so Carol is my "slave".

But honestly, Carol and I were not different than our current selves before I ran into all this. I know of at least one other vanilla couple where they refer to themselves as "husband" and "wife" but it's pretty obvious that if he wants something, he gets it. Interestingly, also a marriage that is just filled to the brim with love. Truly there are probably way more vanilla "m/s" couples than there are kinky ones.... you want my guess... 10x more... corresponding to the general ratio of BDSM in the populace (give or take). But how would you find them exactly? Even if you'd sent a survey person to our front door, I'd have no idea what questions you could've asked us. We didn't have the right conceptual framework to even think about the problem.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/29/2010 11:04:45 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Zephyr, you've know of the quote about curiosity for how many years?  What do you think it pertains too, its never been about what the masses think it is -- general curiosity or asking questions, it has to do with her thinking she needs or has a right to know his thoughts and ideas and decisions and determinations for her.  

The problem most people have when i say things like this is that they see this --- not as the slave doesn't NEED to know, but the negative concept of the guy withholding things from her.  Sorry but no, that's not what this is.  Slaves are on a need to know basis because he doesn't chose to tell her or doesn't tell her doesn't mean its this big negative thing of omg omg he is abusing her or hindering her or keeping things from her.  instead of what it is -- a slave is not entitled to knowing until such time he chooses to tell her.  To me, when a woman makes excuses why she needs to know to do an end run around this concept, she is simply trying to manipulate the situation to attempt to get what she wants and its the she wants to know what she wants to know,

angel



_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/29/2010 11:08:11 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Bita,

Your whole post seems to be missing my point  and missed when i said "need to know."  I didn't say she doesnt ever know or that he never decides she needs to know.  The need to know concept comes in where he determines what she needs to know.   i was held this way by my Master for 8 years and i knew him better than  i knew myself. So your comment about not knowing him doesn't make sense to me.   Yet my life with him was that i didn't go around expecting or feeling entitled to know what he did not decide to tell me.  There were many times i asked him questions about my life, our life etc where he told me it was non of my concern and so it wasn't until he decided to share it with me.  There were times he did answer or he decided to tell me something but what you are missing is the choice to discuss with me or decision of what answer i received for my questions was up to him - not me trying to manipulate him into telling me what i felt i should know.   i didn't say a slave couldn't ask questions, what my statement is she should not ask questions thinking he has an obligation to answer her or that as a slave she is entitled to an answer he doesn't choose to give her.

I didn't say the man doesn't or never will share, i didn't say actually much of anything about the MAN and his decisions.  I spoke of a slave BELIEVING she has a right to know.  Your post to me is full of the excuses women tell themselves to try and make it wrong for a man to keep her on a need to know basis.  Many women try and manipulate their slavery with just that concept. 

You speak of guessing on the slaves part.  As  i never said anythng about the man except he has the slave on a NEED TO KNOW BASIS.  However, he is the one who determines the need to know not the slave.  A slave guessing at things to me is wrong and that is where she screws up.  She simply has to ASK him and he will implement his need to know concept and 1) either decide to inform her or 2) tell her she doesn't need to know or worry about it.  If she continues to try and feels she NEEDS to know, yeah its going to hinder her slavery to him until she stops trying to control things and making excuses to manipulate the situation so she gets her way and he tells her what she thinks she needs to know.  Sorry bita to me your posts speaks of the excuses people say to make the guy look bad for not treating his slave like a partner with equal right to know.  To me, men who hold their women in the mindset she isn't entitled to know and she is on a need to know basis, seem to me to avoid all the little demands and manipulations of slaves who try and use a guilt trip of  ohhh you are a bad Master cause you aren't allowing me to serve to the best of my ability by keeping me informed with what I want to know.

My comments are about the slave understanding that she no longer has control over her life and that goes as far down as needing to know things on her terms instead of his.

Need to know basis tends to be frustrating for those who want to know because usually the wanter to know is not the person who determines their need to know. 

Also, a woman is not a slave to a Man before he puts a collar on her and therefore, if she is not a slave she has the right to demand and yes feel entitled to certain information.  I speak of women who are slaves.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/29/2010 11:48:24 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/29/2010 11:38:36 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline 		BitaTruble,

quote:

So, I agree, I don't think slaves do have the *right* to know.. but within that parameter, a Master doesn't have the *right* to expect their slave to be a mindreader and above all, the big stuff that's not shared up front, before that collar is slapped on, can cause more problems than it's really worth if there are hidden aspects that might have made someone make a different initial decision about whether that collar was going on at all.


I really loved the way you phrased this. I think far too often slaves are expected to know what's in his head. Having been on the receiving end of such left me confused, frustrated, and a little pissed off in all honesty.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/29/2010 12:09:43 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
quote:

BitaTrouble said: So, I agree, I don't think slaves do have the *right* to know.. but within that parameter, a Master doesn't have the *right* to expect their slave to be a mindreader and above all, the big stuff that's not shared up front, before that collar is slapped on, can cause more problems than it's really worth if there are hidden aspects that might have made someone make a different initial decision about whether that collar was going on at all.


I really loved the way you phrased this. I think far too often slaves are expected to know what's in his head. Having been on the receiving end of such left me confused, frustrated, and a little pissed off in all honesty.

I'll tell you my opinion. Pretty much the moment you start thinking in terms of "rights" you're screwed. Where exactly do these "rights" come from? Who enforces them? Why do they exist?

I prefer to think in terms of "that which works" and "that which doesn't work". Carol "knows" when knowing is important to success -- which is pretty much all the time for me. Honestly, my firm opinion as a leader is that plans work a whole lot better when those you expect to carry out the plan have clue what's going on. I prefer to succeed so I make sure Carol is in the loop. It has nothing to do with her "right" to know. It has to do with pragmatic aspects of leading.

There are also very rare times when I do not brief Carol fully on some scheme I'm hatching. In those cases, her "not knowing" is critical to the success of the plan.

I think we can all spend forever discussing these "rights" that people have and all of that talk is worth exactly nothing. I don't even have the "right" to expect her obedience. All I have is whatever obedience my own leadership skills and personality can command. She doesn't have the "right" to expect me to love her. All she has is the ability to make herself lovable by me... or not.

Maybe what I'm saying is that I believe in personal responsibility more than I believe in some handouts from some un-named source of "rights".

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/29/2010 12:32:10 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline 		leadership527,

quote:

Carol "knows" when knowing is important to success -- which is pretty much all the time for me. Honestly, my firm opinion as a leader is that plans work a whole lot better when those you expect to carry out the plan have clue what's going on. I prefer to succeed so I make sure Carol is in the loop. It has nothing to do with her "right" to know. It has to do with pragmatic aspects of leading.


Here's my take on all of that:

1. He isn't talking because he's still working it out in his head.
2. He's clueless and isn't saying. So he plays the silence card.
3. He sincerely believes there's no reason to discuss the situation with the slave.
4. He's bought into the dominant manifesto and conducts his affairs like he's high level CIA.

In my personal opinion your approach is sound and rational. It clearly benefits your dynamic and Carol thrives in that atmosphere, which is the greatest testament to good leadership.

quote:

Maybe what I'm saying is that I believe in personal responsibility more than I believe in some handouts from some un-named source of "rights".


Which brings in another discussion. Where does accountability come in?

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 200
Page:   <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE Page: <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109