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RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:09:09 AM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It all comes down to comfort and security levels.

you forgot blow jobs Ron

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 61

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:20:05 AM

xssve

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Joined: 10/10/2009
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Re: the question, "is it healthy"?

Again, depends entirely on how you define "healthy" - functional? Preferable to worse? Reaching your maximum human potential?

If we settle on the last as the ideal of health (mental presumabley, as opposed to physical), then you have to take into account that we are a social species, and in any social relationship, the parties involved optimize their unit potential, even if this may be at expense of their existential, individual potential - and that's hardly confined to D/S, it's practically the definition of being a parent - i.e., I could be out somewhere maximizing my personal economic potential, but it would be at the expense of diminishing my children's potential, making it an overall decrease in net social utility. There is going to be opportunity cost involved in any choice you make here.

So I think in terms of health, you have to dispense with the abstractions, and put it terms of what you can live with and what you can't.

I'm inclined to include simple happiness in my particular definition of "health" - if it's making me miserable, I'm outta there, all other things being equal.

< Message edited by xssve -- 5/27/2010 10:21:15 AM >

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 62

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:22:25 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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bestheadyet,

quote:

what i am having issue with is the lack of security i seem to have as a slave(being released or sold at Master's choosing) and having no choice or rights in this dichotomy...

Relationships end all the time. I think we're all aware of that. Why do you believe you'll be sold? Is this something you've conjured in your mind or what you've been told?

quote:

and Master keeping me in close range as His charge...but not stating His feelings....i mean is there peace to being owned or insecurity of being property?

Why would that be a concern unless you knowingly became involved with someone that behaved that way? If that's the case you need to figure out why you made that choice. A lot of the nonsense is avoidable by choosing a good partner from the start.

Partners communicate. If you get involved with someone with poor skills in this area it's going to unfold in one or two ways. He works on it or you suffer the consequences. I'm going to assume you've been in relationships that were not based on a power exchange. You'd utilize the same common sense shown in those instances in this one. That doesn't flutter away because you're a slave.

We all have issues. Choose someone with a flaw you can live with. You're putting him in charge. Decide that before the yes not after.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to bestheadyet)

Post #: 63

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:24:24 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It all comes down to comfort and security levels.

so very true.

all of these potential dangers and "risks" of slavery that concern SocratesNot so...are the very things which actually provide comfort and security for some of us.

unlike Jeff and Carol, i am not composed of the stuff (call it strength or will) to survive a life without my Master. i have never lived an independent life, being collared so young, and after being his slave for the entirety of my adult life i have lost all potential i may had to live an independent life. but far more critical than this is the fact that, as i've stated before, being his property is what gives my life purpose, value, meaning. if i am no longer his slave, whether because he has released me or because he has passed on from this plane, then in my heart and soul i am nothing, and my existence meaningless. i would not have the desire or the strength to live such a life.

and here is the interesting dichotomy of loving M/s dynamics: my Master has raised/trained me to be utterly dependent and centrally focused on him, because he finds it beautiful and it feeds him. but he tells me he is sometimes saddened by the very same because it means that i will perish without him, and because he loves me so he would always want me to go on and find some other purpose and joy in life. there is a great burden in being the center of someone's universe, the sole reason why someone breathes.

but for us both, it could be no other way. our natures would not allow it.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 64

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:30:15 AM

DerangedUnit

Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
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it more comes done to "would you be better off without it?" if slavery is so detrimental to your health that it will kill you in a few years(because you have a dom thats an idiot or just crazy) than doing without is probably better for you. on the other hand, if without being owned 24/7 you are homeless and living on the streets often leads to being taken over by the areas local pimp and getting fuc*ed and beaten and pumped full of drugs.... you might be better off getting to choose your own Master and take those "risks".

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 65

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:37:34 AM

SocratesNot

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Joined: 5/17/2010
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quote:

what i am having issue with is the lack of security i seem to have as a slave(being released or sold at Master's choosing) and having no choice or rights in this dichotomy ....and Master keeping me in close range as His charge...but not stating His feelings....i mean is there peace to being owned or insecurity of being property?

i think im still on topic here .....lol
ty

Don't listen to people who are telling you about the past. The past is over. You can not do anything about the past.
So this discussion about that "you should have been careful in choosing your partner" etc do not make any sense at all.
You have already chosen him, and you can't change this fact in any way.

But you CAN LEAVE HIM. Simple as that! If you feel in any way bad, insecure, unhappy, not understood, etc. - you should LEAVE YOUR MASTER!
The past is not important. Only the future is important. And your future lies only in your hands!
You are the one who is responsible for your future and no one else.
If you feel unhappy in your relationship, don't think too much - leave it! Leave it as soon as possible!

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to DerangedUnit)

Post #: 66

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:40:29 AM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
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quote:

it more comes done to "would you be better off without it?" if slavery is so detrimental to your health that it will kill you in a few years(because you have a dom thats an idiot or just crazy) than doing without is probably better for you. on the other hand, if without being owned 24/7 you are homeless and living on the streets often leads to being taken over by the areas local pimp and getting fuc*ed and beaten and pumped full of drugs.... you might be better off getting to choose your own Master and take those "risks".

Exactly!

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 67

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:44:35 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
BitaTruble I would like you to give a second though on this:

quote:

So if Master owns WHOLE slave (which Jeff said that this is his goal) how much of her being is left to her?

All of her, of course! Stripped down to her core, exposed and raw.. he wants *her* and not someone else or he wouldn't be with *her* .. so what is the point of not having her, in fact, pretty much insisting on her being exactly who she is.. that's the one he wanted after all! You don't go out and get a poodle when you really want a collie.. and if you do, then that's sorta dumb. That's not to say that a Master won't hone and tweak and help someone realize their potential, but it's so much easier to start with a lot of factors you desire already in place otherwise you are just going to end up *replacing* someone who isn't tweaking to your satisfaction.

I don't think this is the case. Jeff said how by owning whole slave, he actually wanted all of the aspects of her to be under his control. So he dictates her hair color, what will she it, what will she drink, who will she be friend with, even what will she think. I can't grasp how anything of her is actually left to herself. He can change her completely, make a new person, a new personality, with new value system. For me it seems that not much of her old self remained intact, if anything.

SN,

Here is a question for you in regards to what I quoted above... What makes a person who they are? What is it at a person's core that defines them?

On another note, BitaTruble, it is good to see you back posting. I have definitely missed them.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 68

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:45:17 AM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

unlike Jeff and Carol, i am not composed of the stuff (call it strength or will) to survive a life without my Master. i have never lived an independent life, being collared so young, and after being his slave for the entirety of my adult life i have lost all potential i may had to live an independent life. but far more critical than this is the fact that, as i've stated before, being his property is what gives my life purpose, value, meaning. if i am no longer his slave, whether because he has released me or because he has passed on from this plane, then in my heart and soul i am nothing, and my existence meaningless. i would not have the desire or the strength to live such a life.

and here is the interesting dichotomy of loving M/s dynamics: my Master has raised/trained me to be utterly dependent and centrally focused on him, because he finds it beautiful and it feeds him. but he tells me he is sometimes saddened by the very same because it means that i will perish without him, and because he loves me so he would always want me to go on and find some other purpose and joy in life. there is a great burden in being the center of someone's universe, the sole reason why someone breathes.

but for us both, it could be no other way. our natures would not allow it.

All my fears and concerns proved to be true and real !!!

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 5/27/2010 10:49:46 AM >

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 69

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:51:32 AM

DerangedUnit

Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline

i know that in my case kyraofMists that my personality changes Completely depending on who owns me. part of being a slave to this extent is adaptability. if staying alive and healthy requires you to give up a sense of self and become, instead, someone else than do it. unless your current self is more capable, better adapted to your environment... in that case you leave and find an environment which more closely matches your state of self so that the change is not so dramatic that it is difficult on you.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 70

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:51:45 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

All my fears and concerns proved to be true and real !!!

(sigh)....SocratesNot, i was attempting to be patient and see if you could possibly grow and learn here, but perhaps some of the others are correct when they say you should do more listening and less jumping and reacting. if you had truly understood what i was trying to express in my last post, you would not have had such a reaction.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 71

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:51:52 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

All my fears and concerns proved to be true and real !!!

Then you had better run fast and far from this place.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 72

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:58:27 AM

SocratesNot

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Joined: 5/17/2010
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Listen daddysprop! I react the way I react, because if your Master dies tomorrow of heart attack or if he finishes under the wheels of car I want you to live and not to perish.
And I want you to live healthy and happy life.
Of course it would be gross loss for you and you would suffer a period of deep mourning.
But I want you to live after that and to find your own personal strength and happiness!

By the way you are only 28 and you can not be so sure at such young age what will happen in your life in 10, 20, or 30 years.

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 5/27/2010 11:04:35 AM >

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 73

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 10:58:30 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

My partner is not my master, and yet I feel similarly to Prop.

As always, if this is who you are, then being true to that helps you find and be yourself more than anything else. The only option is to NOT be true to yourself and, at least to me, that's not really an option at all.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 74

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 11:05:06 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

As always, if this is who you are, then being true to that helps you find and be yourself more than anything else. The only option is to NOT be true to yourself and, at least to me, that's not really an option at all.

yes, this exactly. nearly 10 yrs ago i chose a journey which would allow me the only opportunity to truly live. live, not just exist. and that is worth everything and then some.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 75

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 11:08:44 AM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

As always, if this is who you are, then being true to that helps you find and be yourself more than anything else. The only option is to NOT be true to yourself and, at least to me, that's not really an option at all.

What if not? It's hard to be sure on such difficult matters.

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 76

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 11:09:10 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Listen daddysprop! I react the way I react,

Perhaps you react the way you react because you have been posting for a week straight, without a break long enough for a full sleep cycle, or even sufficient time that would be required by a social meal.

To me, this indicates: no employment, no close friends, no warm family ties, no one in your life for whom (or to whom) you are responsible.

You consistently miss the underlying framework of "responsibility for others" when people post about their relationships. It does not surprise me, because it appears you are unaware of responsibility means, so you are blind to its importance. However, it is perhaps the most critical component of any healthy relationship between two people, kinky or otherwise.

Until you shoulder something where it matters to another if you fail, almost all the posts you read here will be in some incomprehensible emotional language.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 77

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 11:12:02 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

What if not? It's hard to be sure on such difficult matters

It really isn't. We're like moths that way- we are always seeking our sincere level, we just let ourselves forget sometimes. If we stop and listen and really let ourselves be, it's as obvious as anything.

One of the more difficult things to accomplish is to discard all the ideas you have about how things are, and allow yourself to experience what they actually are.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 5/27/2010 11:14:20 AM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 78

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 11:13:11 AM

SpiritofaSub

Posts: 14
Joined: 5/22/2010
Status: offline

All my fears and concerns proved to be true and real !!!
[/quote]

SocratesNot, and you only relate this to a M/s relationship? Think first here. All through the history of humankind there have been spouses, lovers..etc. who died within a year after their lover died. They were not all M/s. It sometimes is human nature, for some, though not for all.

Daddyprop247, spoke from her heart on how losing her Master would cause her an emptyness. Other slaves though have lost their Masters through death or being released and had manage to move forward. Both of these examples fit all humans not just those living a M/s relationship.

Your fears dictate to you, but you also have a choice to let them or not. They are your fears and proved nothing but your own inability to understand a concept, which is here nor there. People use to be afraid to travel the ocean, because the earth was claimed to be flat. Thank Goddess/God, someone got past that fear, or we still be stuck thinking the earth is flat.

< Message edited by SpiritofaSub -- 5/27/2010 11:15:41 AM >

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 79

RE: Risks of internal enslavement aka TPE - 5/27/2010 11:13:44 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Listen daddysprop! I react the way I react, because if your Master dies tomorrow of heart attack or if he finishes under the wheels of car I want you to live and not to perish.
And I want you to live healthy and happy life.
Of course it would be gross loss for you and you would suffer a period of deep mourning.
But I want you to live after that and to find your own personal strength and happiness!

By the way you are only 28 and you can not be so sure at such young age what will happen in your life in 10, 20, or 30 years.

there is no "healthy and happy life" without my Master. He IS the life, that is it. and for me, that is the way it should be and needs to be. i have given him my whole self, because that is the way i honor and the way i love. anything else/less holds no point for me. and for my Master, this is a thing of beauty. it is in this...giving all (and of course, having it accepted and valued), holding back nothing...that i find security.

that is what i was attempting to explain to you, SocratesNot. for some of us, this IS our pathway to security, comfort, peace.

oh and btw, if it matters, my profile is very rarely updated...i am now 29.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 80

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