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When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 9:59:23 AM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline 		My dad and I have always had a very volatile relationship. For reasons I don't understand, he has always been highly critical of me, calling me ugly, fat, lazy, etc. to my face and in front of others (none of these things is remotely true, which makes me believe that his criticism of me actually has nothing to do with me personally). He's also extremely manipulative and self-centered. About ten years ago, I seriously considered just cutting off all contact with him because of the emotional damage his criticism and manipulation was causing me. I ended up deciding instead that having my dad in my life was important enough that I should just continue sucking it up and put up with the criticism. Also, my sister told me that having the three of us be on good terms is very important to her and she asked me to please get along with him as a favor to her.

Fast forward ten years. His criticism and manipulation have continued and now that my daughter is 8 years old, she's starting to pick up on it. A few months ago, she starting calling me fat and lazy and other things that she'd heard her grandfather call me. When we talked about it, she said she thought it was ok to say those things to me because my father does. More recently, he gave my sister, who has no children, flowers for Mother's Day in front of my daughter and me and gave me nothing. Later, my daughter wanted to know why he did that and I had a really hard time giving a neutral answer (I don't want to poison her relationship with him).

I am again considering cutting off contact with him, but I don't know if I'm being selfish. If I cut off contact with him, my sister will be very upset and, of course, my daughter will miss out on developing a relationship with her grandfather. On the other hand, I think I have valid concerns that it might be in my daughter's best interest to not have a relationship with him.

How do you decide when to end a relationship with a family member? How do you minimize the effect it has on other family members? Am I just being dramatic and ridiculous? Does anyone have book recommendations? Words of wisdom?

(Note: my mother died when I was a kid, so talking to her is not an option. Also, my dad and sister and I tried family therapy years ago and it went very badly--we burned out three therapists pretty quickly.)

Thank you.

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 10:05:04 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		This sounds like a toxic relationship to me. Unfortunately that poison will spread and color your childs view of what is acceptable. Do you want that? I don't think you need to have a formal break. Simply step away without fanfare or declarations that you are severing ties. It is easy enough to just stop going to someones home, or opting to avoid family gatherings. Invite your sister over when you want to have family, no one is forcing you to invite your father.

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 10:24:07 AM   
Level


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quote:

lucy:

I am again considering cutting off contact with him, but I don't know if I'm being selfish. If I cut off contact with him, my sister will be very upset and, of course, my daughter will miss out on developing a relationship with her grandfather. On the other hand, I think I have valid concerns that it might be in my daughter's best interest to not have a relationship with him.


End it now, and do it definitively.

I enjoy your posts, and I don't say this with any desire to hurt you, but fuck him, and your sister. Don't let them pollute your life, and that of your child.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 10:25:08 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Take a 6 month time out.   I would.   This is not good.   

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 10:28:37 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline 		Hi lucy,

your dad sounds similar to mine...whilst the contact isn't broken completely, I don't bother much to go home (being from Germany. currently living in the UK...living further away now since over 5 years helped me a lot to get confirmed my view I had all the time and strengthened me). By now I go home once or twice a year and christmas I avoided to be with them the last 3 years (and parents aren't bothered either as mum says regular that she can't send me something to xmas or birthday anyway as "postage is too expensive."...therefore we somehow agreed without using direct words to stop being too much bothered about each other as I now won't waste money towards them either...after all, I am by far not as well off financially as they are right now and so do better to keep my money with myself...my 1-2 visits home are also usually at times when my parents aren't much around,so that I have my peace in their house...so mainly going home to meet friends I have over there...because of that broken relationship with both my parents (we talk but I leave it on a very shallow level, as there it is kept better) I keep them out of my life a lot. Greetings to mother or father days didnt happen this year, nor did it happen last year...not interested in appreciating them to be my parents (my Granny was my real bond at home).

Sometimes I do ask myself what I would be doing if I'd have kids...there I would simply leave it meeting once or twice a year (or even less if I move to New Zealand or Canada in the next years...hopefully) and that's sufficient. Whenever I am at home he throws ugly words at me and so did my mother until about 2 years ago or so...and quite frankly...I don't need that.

Last year I went home as I knew my brother was coming home at a particular weekend and so to use the opportunity to meet my nephew who was 11 months old by then was ok for me to do the hassle to get home...but his words often sicken me (some examples I don't mind to email you, but don't post them on the board) and it was obvious again that once his beloved son was out of sight he turned his switch again and showed his nasty behaviour...personally I belief he doesn't like women much in general (I know he hated his mum as she was physically abusive to him and he does not like his 3 sisters either...so me being born as a 2nd child he never wanted and then only a girl ... was not something helpful for him).

However, I simply learned within the last years to stop being bothered...it is hard in the beginning and I got plenty comments "but they are your parents." Quite frankly...I don't care...at the end of the day, you get what you give and I know for sure that I would not care for them once they might be fragile and need help...they can sell their assets and take help in a carehome...I won't be around as i won't look after bullies.

In regards to your sister, I am not in that situation as my brother and I never had a deep relationship with each other (as he copied dads behaviour towards me with using him as his role model, however it seems to get a lil bit better now, since he got a son himself) but I can only advice you to be careful from letting you drawn into manipulative comments from your sister (meaning it neutrally, not negative). How did she get treated from him? Is he often the same way to both of you or is he just picking upon you? Because if it is only you then quite frankly it is damn easy for her to ask to stay in touch with him as she isn't affected from such attitude. I personally feel better since i reduced the contact significantly and had moments where I told him straight in his face that I won't come back, when he suggested not to buy furniture as that would be a hassle when I would come back home...

In regards to your daughter I would continue to let her have contact with him (unsupervised IF that is an option, or at times when your sister is there) and just keep my distance to him apart from once or twice a year...I would not forbid her contact to him (my dad broke up his contact to his mum and siblings after grandpa's death when I was ten, so I know how it feels when you miss that part of the family and can't reach them as a kid) however i would consider how much it needs to include you, her being in contact with him...so IF it would be possible to drop her off and to pick her up again and you just staying out of it as much as you can during her time with her grandpa, that could be an option.

Just my thoughts and experiences...if you ever wanna drop a line, my mailbox is open

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 5/28/2010 10:53:21 AM >

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(in reply to lucylucy)
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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 10:29:53 AM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline 		You're not being dramatic or ridiculous at all.  I recently had to cut off contact with my biological mother for similar reasons.  I think you need to put more weight on your father's influence on your relationship with your child than on your sister's reaction to whatever decision you make.  Your sister doesn't have to deal with the repercussions a toxic relationship between you and your father will have on your daughter.  You do.  For your sister to expect you to put your emotional welfare and that of your child aside as a favor to her is unrealistic and selfish of her. 
 
It's certainly not easy to divorce a parent and I empathize with your predicament.  However, you should consider whether it's more important for your daughter to have a relationship with your father during this impressionable phase of life, or if it's better to limit contact so that she doesn't learn to imitate dysfunctional behavior.  I chose to severely curtail contact between my children and my biological mother, even though my oldest son adores Grandma, in favor of modeling healthy behavior and relationships for him. 
 
I certainly can't tell you what to do; I don't know what's best for your family.  But if you feel like cutting off contact with your father is what's best for you and your relationship with your daughter, then you absolutely should follow your instincts.  Don't let anyone make you feel guilty for making the decision that's best for you.

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 10:32:39 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Lucy-  the game has changed.  You owe your kid.  The dynamics now are fatal to you and her relationship.


You do not have a choice but to cut off.  Because if you don't your daughter will be a carbon copy of this jerk.


I would not be bitter- just move on to greener pastures.  At least until the kid is old enough to handle this type of thing.


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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 10:47:54 AM   
CalifChick


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Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

I am again considering cutting off contact with him, but I don't know if I'm being selfish. If I cut off contact with him, my sister will be very upset and, of course, my daughter will miss out on developing a relationship with her grandfather. On the other hand, I think I have valid concerns that it might be in my daughter's best interest to not have a relationship with him.



In addition to agreeing with what everyone else said, re-read what you wrote here.

You owe yourself and your child peace before you owe your sister anything.  She will just have to deal with it.  Your child is already learning that it is acceptable to treat you the way your father treats you.  That is NOT okay. 

I cut off my own father for similar reasons.  My parents divorced when I was a kid.  When my mother, in a weak moment, said, "your children deserve to know their grandfather," I let her know in no uncertain terms that my children do NOT deserve to know someone who treats their mother the way he does.  It's a package deal... treat me with respect and have a relationship with me and my children.  Treat me the way he does, and you don't get to get rid of me so you can have a relationship with my children away from me.

She backed off quickly and apologized. 

Cali


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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 10:52:11 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		IMO the sister will fall into line once you are firmly in control of your home.  But if not- she can walk too.

We will help you.  On the board- or off- people here are full of good thinking.

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 11:23:35 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Fuck him, just walk away.
Why would you want to be around negative people anyway?

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 11:25:13 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I love how men think.


To the point.  lol


...It is important not to be bitter.  Just live your life.   (with out the crap)


< Message edited by pahunkboy -- 5/28/2010 11:26:34 AM >

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 11:41:00 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		lucy, I would have walked years ago.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 11:47:13 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Walk away, Lucy. I won't go into why I feel that way from my own little life, but do it for the sake of your daughter. She does NOT need to see you being treated shabbily by your dad. And how soon before SHE becomes the target herself?

Good luck, I wish you strength in this very trying time.

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 11:51:43 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		Lucy, let me ask you a question... if this person wasn't connected to you by blood, would you allow him to have any influence in your life, or have contact with your daughter? Would you tolerate being treated that way by an associate who -wasn't- family? If not, then why would you accept it from family.

Family are just a genetic accident -- "familial relationships", in the sense of what they mean, rather than being based solely on some genetic ties, are ties forged of common concern, caring, affection, and support... so while you may have a genetic link to this man, he is certainly not what I would consider "familial", and I'd cut the ties before he damages you, your daughter, and your relationship with your daughter.

Calla


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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 11:57:50 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Calla: It's good to see you posting again.

Lucy: severing ties does not necessarily mean forever.  However, you might consider suspending contact until your daughter is at a less impressionable age.  Take a year or two off.  It doesn't mean you're a bitch, or a foul unloving daughter.  It means you're a super mom.


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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 12:07:19 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Calla: It's good to see you posting again.

Lucy: severing ties does not necessarily mean forever.  However, you might consider suspending contact until your daughter is at a less impressionable age.  Take a year or two off.  It doesn't mean you're a bitch, or a foul unloving daughter.  It means you're a super mom.



Thanks Red!

I have to second Red's comments about closing contact now not necessarily meaning closing contact forever. My father was not a pleasant person where I was concerned, and his attitude and behavior were intolerable through much of my young life. When my mother died, some things happened that just blew years of cruelty out into the open and laid them bare, and I had to go through the same evaluation I mentioned to you (very quickly, in my mind, in the midst of my father's vituperative harang)... in the end, I hung up on my dad and didn't speak to him again for 10 years -- at which point, he contacted me wanting me to be part of his life again. We established ground rules for communication as adults, and for the past 15 years, he has been IMPECCABLE about sticking to those ground rules, and has grown into a supportive man whom I am happy to call "Papa".

Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 12:10:18 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		My brother tho is still punishing my sister and our brother by not talking to them.  I went to bat for my sister 3x to no avail.

She told me not to again or I would get cut off.

I did tell him they both have a right to know why.    But is different as all parties are adults.

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 12:16:07 PM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline 		Just take your daughter and walk away from the abuse. You deserve the right to being a caring person while your father abused the privilege of hatred. Walk to the women's shelter and tell them about the abuse you are receiving that is emotional and mental. They will help you out. If your daughter starts the abuse in the shelter, let others know about it. All of us are working to end the cycle of abuse.

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 12:53:18 PM   
calamitysandra


Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline 		You need to walk away. If you feel reluctant to do it for yourself, do it to protect your daughter.

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RE: When to end a relationship - 5/28/2010 1:16:56 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Walk away, Lucy. I won't go into why I feel that way from my own little life, but do it for the sake of your daughter. She does NOT need to see you being treated shabbily by your dad. And how soon before SHE becomes the target herself?

Good luck, I wish you strength in this very trying time.


This exactly.

I had to. Most of my siblings did not understand why and I wouldn't give the details. They get it now, but they had to come to that place for themselves.


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