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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:09:49 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Raven, maybe i don't get what you mean by engage. What slave doesn't engage the expectations and standards of their Master? The concept of M/s is in and of itself the process of being mastered and striving to meet and maintain his expectations. Are you saying she needs to follow his plan of eating, exercising staying motivated etc? Why would this be any different from anything else he demands of her?

I guess that's what i don't get, why is weight loss different? Because it seems most people want to make it different than any other concept that exists in D/s or M/s,

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 41

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:10:16 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

barelynangel,

quote:

porcelaine, my comments weren't directed at anyone inparticular but i always see the same line of thinking when weight and such becomes a topic of conversaion about M/s or D/s that its wrong or an implication that if someone doesn't want to do it for themselves it doesn't work or for a guy to say he doesn't like his slaves or subs body and has expectations for them to achive that its an abusive situation.

I wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying. :)

But this is where you and I differ, not that I don't get your perspective. I do. Trust me. This vessel is his from top to bottom.

But I talk to men and women. The latter are struggling to find someone that will take them as is. The first isn't having it. He doesn't want to deal with it. I can't blame him. But I have to tell her she has some things to consider. Accept the realities of the situation - limiting her choices as she waits - or try to do something about it while she waits. I prefer to keep it real.

You're right. It's great when a man can do all of that. But the girl has to have the man in the first place. If she can't topple that stumbling block she'll never get everything you're speaking of.

quote:

Its a concept of using anothers strength, determination and yes authority over your autonomy to achieve and in the end, is like any other expectation and standard you strive to meet in the relationship from serving him a certain way to following a routine he demands to following his diet plan and exercise plan to sculpt you in a way he finds pleasing to himself. Its not wrong, and for many it ends in success.

I can view myself as His even if He isn't "here." You see, I don't get permission to muck up the vessel and expect we'll take care of that when the Master comes. Instead, I do what I can to improve the vessel so that when He arrives He has something better to work with.

It is because He is who He is that I want to be so much more. For Him and myself. I cannot destroy His property in good conscience. I'm sorry. I just don't work that way.

Either I've surrendered my body or I haven't. I think a lot people cling to very comfortable excuses to maintain their behavior and condition. If I am a slave and I really believe my body is His it would an abomination to destroy it. Otherwise, it's conveniently His when I'm owned and all mine when not. Leaving me to wonder if the mindset about it never being mine ever took root.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 42

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:20:54 AM

UniqueRaven

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Raven, maybe i don't get what you mean by engage. What slave doesn't engage the expectations and standards of their Master? The concept of M/s is in and of itself the process of being mastered and striving to meet and maintain his expectations. Are you saying she needs to follow his plan of eating, exercising staying motivated etc? Why would this be any different from anything else he demands of her?

I guess that's what i don't get, why is weight loss different? Because it seems most people want to make it different than any other concept that exists in D/s or M/s,

angel

There are many women who take on the role of "slave" that don't engage fully with their Masters - if at all. We see it on the boards quite often - they expect him to simply work a miracle with her, while she just waits for it to happen.

Being engaged is an active role - not a passive one. There are many slaves who expect slavery by passivity.

He's a Master, not a magician, is my point. And i'm not singling out weight loss as "different." My point is that the slave needs to be engaged by her own internal drive and motivation to do so in response to his Mastery of her.

This is now a different thread, so i'm not going to comment anymore - trying to avoid thread drift.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 43

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:22:07 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Hi porcelaine,

grins, you know, i knew i was his, he made no doubt about that, but he didn't micromanage me, but he did set his expectations and standards but you know what he also did, he set the atmosphere and environment within which i exists in his life that was completely focused on my achieveing his expectations and standards. Everything i did was within that environment because of the mentalities and mindsets he trained into me. But there were lots of things i didn't pay attention to but simply went with what he dtermined and that's how he wanted me to exist in his life. It wasn't hard or really a thinking thang, my life was simply being his slave. I wasn't necessarily living my life as his slave.

Believe me, its not an easy type of man to find.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 44

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:25:45 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

MMM Raven, i don't know if i am simply not getting what you are saying or if i disagree with you. I don't know Men who are Masters who would have slaves that are passive, the two concepts just don't seem to go together. I have always seen slave as being a REACTIONARY concept, so they need the action of the Master. I have never seen a reaction of a slave to be something she forces into being or stops from happening so i am not sure about your internal drive concept. Reactions are just that reactions.

I don't see how mastery can occur wherein one doesn't react to it. Anything else, i am not sure can be considered slavery. If mastery exists i don't know how either party can be passive.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/31/2010 8:27:00 AM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 45

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:26:42 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

barelynangel,

Thank you for sharing his words. It is clear his input has had an impact on your decision making in some manner. Hopefully all good.

I'm reminded of a remarkable person I once knew. He possesses more knowledge on this subject than any man I've ever encountered. He would be the kind of influence that you've mentioned. But it's a little different for me. I've done the bulk of it on my own and maintained that in and outside the kneel. I'm fervently committed to going forward not backwards. There is no gain and there never will be. Nearly five years have passed without a change. It can be done.

My standard has never lowered. I like what I like and I've said no quite frequently. Conversing with him made me realize how important it was for me to have someone committed to seeing that finish take place. Assuming he's part of the project, but I can't sit around waiting for him to arrive either. I have to do my part - whatever that implies - because he might take awhile to get here.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 46

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:30:48 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

barelynangel,

quote:

But there were lots of things i didn't pay attention to but simply went with what he dtermined and that's how he wanted me to exist in his life. It wasn't hard or really a thinking thang, my life was simply being his slave. I wasn't necessarily living my life as his slave.

Your comments prompted a question. Are you unable to apply that standard to your life at present? Even though you're unowned? Or would it require a dominant influence to make it happen?

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 47

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:35:40 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Porcelaine, and that's what works for you and you should be proud of yourself. Many people who become slaves have accomplished things while not being owned and they have goals and a vision of what they deem a future goal or expectations. And it sounds like you found the man who would be willing to allow you to decide what the finish should be. There are people who make accomplishments and have goals in their vision simply to pass the time and they know and understand within them that they simply are waiting for someone to come along and take over and set their own standards and expectations for them. There are all different sorts and that's what i was explaining with regard to weight loss, some do very well existing in the expectations and standards of others outside of their own.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 48

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:39:33 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

lol no, i suck at being free, and not so much as setting expectations and standards for myself -- i can think and want goals and decisions, but i suck at applying my knowledge and maintaining my own motivation towards same. I have a very bad concept of being able to think of things but don't do well with application to make them happen. I am the idea come upper and usually need an inventor. HE was my bumbers, he was my boundries, he was the one who took the chaos in my head and focused me on him. I focused on him and he focused on everything else. grins, i tend to be all over the place otherwise. I need a direct focus and it can't be on myself.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 49

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:42:29 AM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

No, I haven't been involved with it, but I like the idea sometimes myself.

Its not because I can't do it on my own, it's going great so far..it would be nice however to have a lil cheering section once in awhile when I pick the celery instead of the cake, or walk blocks upon blocks at the end of a horrid day of work. ")

I don't know much about WW, but it looks pretty good. I think if I had the money, I would do the Jenny Craig thing, but it's so high.

I have just changed what I eat and how much. I go out to eat for a treat once a week, usually on Friday. I allow myself a small pack of candy at work once a day, that keeps my craving down otherwise. I don't have the temptation in my home, I shop for what I should be eating, not what I would consider binging foods. If I want one of those, I must take the time to drive to the store or drive-thru, by which time that craving is gone anyway.

I don't see this as a bashing thread at all, it's an actual question. You say you need to lose weight also, which is a good thing in ways. Maybe you two can do it together, encourage each other.

Just make sure you and she both know, you are of value to each other whether the weight is gone or not.

Best of luck in your search for better health.

flutterby

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to BMW1969)

Post #: 50

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:44:59 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

barelynangel,

quote:

And it sounds like you found the man who would be willing to allow you to decide what the finish should be.

No I'm doing it alone.

quote:

There are people who make accomplishments and have goals in their vision simply to pass the time and they know and understand within them that they simply are waiting for someone to come along and take over and set their own standards and expectations for them.

I don't begrudge waiting. I merely stress the necessity of accepting the consequences of that approach. That's really the problem. Many can't.

quote:

There are all different sorts and that's what i was explaining with regard to weight loss, some do very well existing in the expectations and standards of others outside of their own.

I agree. I didn't have the option to do so.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 51

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:50:31 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

barelynangel,

*laughs* A free porcelaine is quite the conundrum.

quote:

HE was my bumbers, he was my boundries, he was the one who took the chaos in my head and focused me on him. I focused on him and he focused on everything else.

I understand that. Having someone that provides the opposite makes a fitting complement.

quote:

I need a direct focus and it can't be on myself.

And I need the reverse. I'm so accustomed to doing it all and making it happen I appreciate someone that can do the same. It provides a respite and security that's hard to explain, but very satisfying nonetheless.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 52

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 8:52:39 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Oh ok, when you spoke of it being his body etc, i thought you were actually a slave. But it sounds like you want to be one to someone, yes? I should clarify this by saying, i am one of the people who do not believe unowned women are actual slaves but simply women who want to be and are slave but not actual slaves.

See what i am speaking about is people actually living as slaves, not women who are free who need to make their own determinations for themselves and should. Living in slavery for many is a lot different. As i have said, women who aren't owned need to make the decision to do it for themselves or on their own, women who are owned really don't because they do have someone who sets the boundries and expectations for them but also set their life to reaching and maintaining same in most of their lives and body concept and weight loss is simply another one of those things a Man may or may not choose to control.

You should be proud of yourself for deciding to and maintaining your determination to do it on your own. But not everyone must do so. I do agree people who aren't slaves need to take personal responsibility for themselves and acknowledge perhaps their determinations for themselves may hinder finding what they seek.

angel

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/31/2010 8:54:50 AM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 53

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 9:09:29 AM

UniqueRaven

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

Yes angel, and don't forget there are those of us like yourself, who have been owned in the long term before, so have that experience and know the mental state of being Mastered - and soon will be again.

That's the state i generally speak from. For me, my current state is just a challenging interim transition.

< Message edited by UniqueRaven -- 5/31/2010 9:13:39 AM >

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 54

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 9:28:52 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

barelynangel,

quote:

As i have said, women who aren't owned need to make the decision to do it for themselves or on their own

That's the point Raven was attempting to make. :)

Once the girl has accepted his hand she needs to adhere to whatever she's agreed to do before saying yes. I won't argue that point. We were simply saying that there are a ton of girls wanting him to set aside his preferences because they can't make the cut as is. And the few that are taken and told they have to change their appearance often become angry and resentful. Which was the point of my original response. Both of them need to get real.

In terms of ownership status and how one should conduct herself when free, I have always believed it's a grave mistake to allow the bar to slip. That does little to attract a would be owner in all honesty. If anything she needs to batten down the hatches and be accountable while she's unattached. Resting on ones laurels is often her real undoing. We can apply this to weight and everything in between. He wants someone worth having on his arm. We all do.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 55

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 9:31:49 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Okay, maybe i lost something but this thread isn't about unowned people, its about people involved in actual D/s and M/s relationships. So i guess i don't get why you two are focusing on people who aren't -- including yourselfs.

So i am a little lost why we are talking about people who aren't involved in the D/s or M/s concept.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/31/2010 9:33:48 AM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 56

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 9:37:07 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

barelynangel,

quote:

Oh ok, when you spoke of it being his body etc, i thought you were actually a slave.

Either you have presented your body as a living sacrifice or you haven't. Because what you're describing isn't sacrifice in my opinion. It's temporary change. If she's adopted the mindset that her body does not belong to her why would that flutter away because she's unowned? I would seriously questioned if it was ever surrendered at all. Or if the context of that surrender was merely for that person instead. Not a full and completion cessation of her ability to see herself in that way.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 57

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 9:50:43 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Porcelaine, i never saw myself as a sacrifice to slavery. I never held myself in slavery lol. I thrived in slavery and his mastery of me, i didn't sacrifice myself to it. Surrendered is an odd word, for utter surrender to me is not sacrificing but instead thriving in the environment you exist and you are happy and full of living lfe, not living in sacrifice. And i don't go around while free living up to expectations and standards of someone who no longer exists in my life. My body was never a living sacrifice and he never saw it as me sacrificing to him. I was simply his slave -- it wasn't a religion, it was simply my life. grins, i wasn't surrendered, i was mastered. Now that i am no longer mastered by him i don't run around trying to pretend i am or that i somehow live for him still or that i hold myself in concepts he determined for me lol

Sorry, slavery was never some guru religion concept for me, it was action and reaction and even if you want to term it in the concept of surrender -- when he stopped mastering me and gave me back my autonomy, i took back my autonomy.

Yeah, slavery is TO people porcelaine, its not a guru concept to live by or try and hold yourself in. Its life, not an achievement. You are slave because you are capable of being mastered by another -- not because you can master yourself into what did you call it sacrificing your body for the sake of the concept called being a slave?

I never saw slavery as a way to see yourself- i saw slavery as simply a Man mastering and enslaving a woman and because of same, he made determinations to own her thereby setting his personal expectations and standards for her and thereby creating an environment and atmosphere in which she lived to achieve same.

I honestly don't get the trying to "see yourself" as a surrendered person when your whole life when you aren't owned is a concept of self-determination and having autonomy. What exactly are you surrendered too when you aren't owned? The past, the guessing of the future, a wishful present?

Why do you see it as sacrifice? Hell, when i was his i didn't sacrifice, i didn't live in the mindset of my life was to GIVE UP and sacrifice because i was a slave. It wasn't that sad of a concept. He owned me, mastered me and enslaved me, but i never once felt i sacrificed anything even my body because of same. So why would i pretend that now in the guise of pretending the slavery and slave still existed outside of the Man who determines to master and enslave me?

Sorry but your use of sacrifice doesn't sound like surrender to me either, it sounds sad and miserable.

YEs, i was a slave for that person. I am not slave to any tom, dick or harry who thinks they are a Master. Being a slave isn't a career for me wherein i react to everyone in that manner, and i really do suck at trying to act like one to people just for the name of slave or slavery. My slave is dependent on whether or not a Man is capable of claiming her and her reaction to that mastery. I am slave, but i am not a slave without a Master. I don't need to utilize concepts my former Master implemented to understand or recognize slave. I don't need to sacrifice to understand the slave. And no, i don't think of myself as slave in full when i don't have a Master to implement the life of same.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/31/2010 9:57:05 AM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 58

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 9:50:52 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

barelynangel,

quote:

So i am a little lost why we are talking about people who aren't involved in the D/s or M/s concept.

The OP was not explicit in what was involved. I questioned if the changes were for the submissive, the dominant, or both. Nor did the individual propose there was any reluctance on either side or unwillingness to proceed. Raven's point was about the importance of the submissive being involved and the hazards of when she's really not on board. I discussed responsibility for both and the necessity to make wise decisions before we ever get to this point. Since we're unable to ascertain what the situation really entails without the OP's input we're merely grasping at straws.

As for the idea that ones status on the kneel in the present state is any predication of what can or cannot be advised, that's a matter of interpretation for the reader. While you might think the additional information shared is of little importance, the popularity of such subjects reflects differently. It continues to come up because it is a reality that many are grappling with. Hopefully in the stretch of comments that have been made thus far our feedback can help someone that's wrestling with this issue.

I don't need to be a slave according to your definition (not ill regarded for that matter) to give an honest response. It would be grossly hypocritical of me to berate someone for their inability/unwillingness to do something that I haven't been able to accomplish on my own. It is for that reason and many more that I temper my responses on this subject. I know it is a hard issue for many. And to tell the truth angel, even though I respect your opinion and I agree. You can't be oblivious to the bias in what you're saying. I'm not.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 59

RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 9:54:53 AM

BMW1969

Posts: 17
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Phoenix
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Get on your bikes and ride!!!!

I agree !!!

_____________________________

If I do something to you that is not "Socially Acceptable" and you return for more, is that really a bad thing?

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Post #: 60

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