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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 9:56:23 AM

BMW1969

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Did not mean to turn this into a cat fight.
Although it sells more tickets and popcorn

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:03:57 AM

barelynangel

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Porcelaine, relax, its not that deep. Maybe i am different but to me M/s and D/s is a concept of RELATIONSHIPS not individuals seeking those relationships and are on their own.

I don't have any bias porcelaine, i guess no more than you have. The relationships of M/s and D/s are just that to me -- relationships not individuals.

Maybe i am reading the OP wrong:

"Has anyone deised or impliments a weight loss/fitness program on a sub/slave for period of time that helped long term? "

To me this implies an authority figure in the relationship to the sub or slave per the dynamic of their relationship. For you, i can see how this may mean that it lasted beyond the relationship. What i was saying is for many no, the ability to reach expectations nad standards don't usually go beyond the end of the relationship because of the nature ofthe relationship.

bah am aving keyboard issu.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/31/2010 10:09:55 AM >

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:07:39 AM

NuevaVida

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If I may chime in on this a bit...

I am owned, and have been for just over a year. In between the time of my former relationship and this one, I took it upon myself to embark on a weight loss program, and to become healthier - mentally, emotionally, and physically. I did this for myself. Many unowned folks do this for themselves and with the intention of being the best they can be for future prospective owners.

By the time I met my owner, I had lost about 20 pounds. I continue my weight loss program and I'm now down a bit over 60 pounds. Life is a continuum. I am essentially the same person (albeit with a few changes) as I was a year ago, before I was owned.

I think the difficult part for me, was, since I had begun this weight loss program myself, and was experiencing success at it, it was difficult to open myself to input from another. My weight is a very delicate and emotional issue for me, and fortunately my owner is very engaged in my weight loss, and very supportive of it. But he is also very careful with the way he guides me on my continued path, because, like any emotional changes, the wrong kind of tweaking can prove negative results.

I personally welcome porcelaine's contribution, whether she is owned or not. She has also experienced great success in this area, so she has a lot to offer someone as far as support and advice. To negate her words simply because she is not an owned slave would be a disservice to others who benefit from them. Personally, I do best when I receive advice from someone who has actually succeeded in a particular endeavor - I see a lot of people (all over, not just here) giving weight loss advice who have never lost a significant amount of weight, or who were not able to keep that lost weight off. I would rather hear from someone who has actually done it, than someone who has not.

I also understand that there are some slaves who look to a master to fix a particular part of themselves, and this works great for those masters and slaves who prefer that type of dynamic. I did not come to my owner needing to be fixed, in fact I needed to exercise my own internal strengths to fix problematic areas for myself before engaging in another relationship. He preferred to not have to fix someone, too, as what he was looking for was to be an authoritarian over someone, not a repair man. We are finding, for ourselves, anyway, this is a much more enjoyable relationship than our past ones, because we can just focus on each other and enjoying life, rather than repairing problems. There is a different kind of energy between us as a result, and we prefer that.

I encourage anyone - master or slave, dominant or submissive, top or bottom, vanilla or strawberry - who wishes to embark on a weight loss program or who wishes to instruct another to lose weight, to please do your research and homework first. Often times lost weight does not stay lost because the people losing it have not learned (and embraced for the long term) a healthy eating and exercise mindset, and therefore they do not see food any differently than they have in the past. So, without the proper internal knowledge and structure in place, all their hard work falls to the ground once an external force is no longer present. As with any area of life, learning a healthy way of doing things and changing the mindset to incorporate that into daily life, is something I think would be beneficial. And as for weight loss, so many masters, dominants, etc, don't understand that emotional ties that some of us have to food, and end up doing more damage than good when pressing someone else to lose weight. It's not just the body you're changing - it's the entire emotional connection to food.

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:10:28 AM

porcelaine

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barelynangel

quote:

And i don't go around while free living up to expectations and standards of someone who no longer exists in my life.

I suppose you have no influences in your life and all the changes made were a direct result of things you've conjured on your own? There are no outside motivators that you have adapted and embraced as yours?

quote:

Now that i am no longer mastered by him i don't run around trying to pretend i am or that i somehow live for him still or that i hold myself in concepts he determined for me

I'm not suggesting that you do. And I asked if the things you were taught could be implemented in your life at present and you explained why that wasn't possible.

quote:

when he stopped mastering me and gave me back my autonomy, i took back my autonomy.

It isn't a matter of autonomy for me. I simply recognize when something works. Even if the person that presented the idea isn't in my life if I benefited positively from it I'm not afraid to say so or continue to use it if it's working for me.

quote:

You are slave because you are capable of being mastered by another -- not because you can master yourself into what did you call it sacrificing your body for the sake of the concept called being a slave?

No that isn't what I was inferring at all. Perhaps you misunderstood the context of the comment. And just because I don't have a man in my life controlling my weight doesn't make me any less accountable.

quote:

What exactly are you surrendered too when you aren't owned? The past, the guessing of the future, a wishful present?

Our mentality on this subject is very different. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, my surrender is always twofold. I have to be willing to let things go. Otherwise I'm just going through the motions and for me that isn't why I'm in this. When I lay something down my desire to control that thing is abated. It doesn't mean I can't handle it if I have to. But I'm definitely not going to get into a wrestling match about it when I'm in a relationship either.

quote:

So why would i pretend that now in the guise of pretending the slavery and slave still existed outside of the Man who determines to master and enslave me?

You can call it sacrifice, preference or choice. But the reality is that behaviors continue because the individual can't, won't. or is unable to institute changes that would render them gone.

quote:

Sorry but your use of sacrifice doesn't sound like surrender to me either, it sounds sad and miserable.

No it isn't. I simply have no need to continue behaviors that are not in my best interest. I know it isn't good for me and if I have one iota of self love or self respect I'll be brutally honest about that. And I don't need a master, guru, or some personal coach to tell me any of this.

I've got a mirror and it never lies.

~porcelaine

< Message edited by porcelaine -- 5/31/2010 10:19:32 AM >

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:17:20 AM

barelynangel

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Look before everyone starts jumping in -- i didn't say porcelaine doesn't help however her being unowned and unless she started the concept of her weight loss UNDER the mastery of another doesn't follow the OP.

I get tired of people act and yes if you read your posts it acts like when someone looks for someone to "fix" something which isn't really an accurate word for it -- there is a condescending tone that indicates this concept is BAD. I understand because of our society that doesn't deal well with dependency on others, it can APPEAR that way, but you know what, some people can't or don't WANT to do things on their own and there are just as many men who enjoy being Mr. fix it as there are men who don't want to put the work in.

So that is what annoys me because many people because well geee they decided to do it on their own are somehow BETTER than those who do better within the authority of a Man I got that tone from porcelaine, raven and yes now you nuevaVida, that somehow you guys are "more" than people who chose to thrive under the mastery of a Man who is going to fix things they can't seem to fix on their own.

THAT is why i decided to post in here. Because of this condescending tones i hear, it reminds me of people who think being independent is being more mature than those who work better being dependent.

Yeah, i know or society advocates people doing things on their own and personal responsibility in achieving goals and such, but you know, if it works for you great, but it doesn't mean people who thrive under the mastery of another who determines their lives for them are wrong, immature, or bad who should buck up and do it on their own.

angel
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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:26:07 AM

UniqueRaven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
So that is what annoys me because many people because well geee they decided to do it on their own are somehow BETTER than those who do better within the authority of a Man I got that tone from porcelaine, raven and yes now you nuevaVida, that somehow you guys are "more" than people who chose to thrive under the mastery of a Man who is going to fix things they can't seem to fix on their own.

THAT is why i decided to post in here. Because of this condescending tones i hear, it reminds me of people who think being independent is being more mature than those who work better being dependent.

You only heard condescension. i never said anyone is better than anyone else, whether they lose weight on their own or under the authority of a Man. Please don't twist my words.

What i said is that the slave has to be engaged with the Master for the process to work - a point which you've made yourself several times now.

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:30:05 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I get tired of people act and yes if you read your posts it acts like when someone looks for someone to "fix" something which isn't really an accurate word for it -- there is a condescending tone that indicates this concept is BAD. I understand because of our society that doesn't deal well with dependency on others, it can APPEAR that way, but you know what, some people can't or don't WANT to do things on their own and there are just as many men who enjoy being Mr. fix it as there are men who don't want to put the work in.

I believe "fix" was a word you used, which is why I picked it up.

I also know some people can't do things on their own. I used to be one of them, and looked to my ex master for guidance in every part of my life. I have since changed from that, so I'm no longer one of those people. There is no "better" or "worse" here, it's just a change I went through. So now I offer posts from that perspective, because it's where I am now.

quote:

So that is what annoys me because many people because well geee they decided to do it on their own are somehow BETTER than those who do better within the authority of a Man I got that tone from porcelaine, raven and yes now you nuevaVida, that somehow you guys are "more" than people who chose to thrive under the mastery of a Man who is going to fix things they can't seem to fix on their own.

Any condescension you are feeling from me is of your own accord, Angel. I merely gave my current perspective on things - that for me, I had to be able to come to the man as I am now, or it wouldn't have worked for us, and that for us, what we have is exactly what we were looking for. I don't think I'm better or less than anyone here - I couldn't possibly say that I am, with any credibility, since I don't know you beyond what you present here in your posts. The point I was making is that one should be very careful in how they embark on instructing weight loss, and learning life changes that will remain in place despite what circumstances life may throw at you, is optimal for long term health, in my opinion.

quote:

THAT is why i decided to post in here. Because of this condescending tones i hear, it reminds me of people who think being independent is being more mature than those who work better being dependent.

I did not post with any "tone" in mind. I do not have a maturity measuring stick, and don't really care whether I am more or less mature than others. My fulfillment in life has nothing to do with any sort of comparison to other slaves. I have no idea where that comes from in your post.

quote:

Yeah, i know or society advocates people doing things on their own and personal responsibility in achieving goals and such, but you know, if it works for you great, but it doesn't mean people who thrive under the mastery of another who determines their lives for them are wrong, immature, or bad who should buck up and do it on their own.

I suspect you are personalizing things more than you need to be. Dare I say, "relax, it's not that deep", lol. Seriously, no one is shining that bright of a spotlight on you. The reason I chimed in was because I saw someone who is unowned but who has some valuable input on weight loss derided simply because she is not owned, and I wanted to add a perspective of going from unowned to owned, while on a weight loss program. Do not take my words as some sort of discredit or criticism to you. I spoke about myself only in my post. There was no hidden agenda.

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:32:11 AM

barelynangel

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Porcelaine, listen -- i am NOT YOU. What i have been saying is i suck at being free. I don't implement things even I know that work because of my kowledge of same becasue I SUCK AT IT usually.   I can do the basics.

You make it sound that anyone who doesn't carry on mastering themselves after the mastery is gone (mind you the mastery is what maintained the person striving to meet expectations and standards) to those standards and expectations EVEN IF THEY WORKED.   Its not, not acknowledging what worked, its simply you don't. Its not about the ohhh so responsible concept of accountability i mean come on people buck up and be adults what the hell do you need mastery for -- you are an adult, you are accountible etc etc.

Your need to be accountible to SOMETHING porcelaine that you are willing to pretend you are sacrificing yourself to some figment of a Master yu don't know, you aren't accountible to yourself, you are pretending from what it seems that you are accountible to a Man who isn't existing in your life -- a figment. Which is FINE, it works for you.

But some of us work better when the actuality is there instead of a figment. grins have you read what you have written. And you tell me you are incapable of seeing how sanctimonious that sounds. My honest question to you BASED on your statements is what do you need a master for? You seem perfectly capable of mastering yourself.

I am not, i need that outside force. Oh, i am capable of getting by, i make money, i live my life, i lose weight when i put my mind to it, but i exist better under the authority of another and certain parts of my life i need a Master to really thrive within because i just won't do it. Acknowledgeing that --- that you NEED a Master is just as important as any self-determined thing you decide to do without one.

My accountability is knowing what i suck at porcelaine, my accountability is knowing when i need an authority greater than my own will to help me thrive at something, that to me is personal accountability. You seem to live as a slave to be a slave, my slavery was always and always will be dependent on the Man -- not the figment. Because see my figment will then have me determining what my slavery will be and that will narrow my playing field. You can do this on your own -- yeah you, be proud of it. But your error comes when you decide everyone should live up to what YOU expect people to see as slavery.   I get guilty of that at times, probably even have in this thread, but you are attempting to tell people what they should be accountable with regard to not being a slave but who want to be, and that really is not your call.

I am accountable to knowing ME and myself. I have no qualms or shame in admitting i thrive in slavery wherein expectations and standards are set by another. I have no qualms saying i suck at being free because i do. I am my own worst enemy, and yeah many times the mastery saves me from complete self-destruction. That doesn't make what i need bad or wrong than you who seems to be able to continue the mastery started by another or who never was mastered by is mastering herself. Its different and its looking in the mirror you speak of porcelaine, its seeing the truth the same way you do.

angel

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:36:42 AM

porcelaine

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barelynangel,

quote:

I get tired of people act and yes if you read your posts it acts like when someone looks for someone to "fix" something which isn't really an accurate word for it -- there is a condescending tone that indicates this concept is BAD.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I often mention in my responses that our motivations are different. I do that because we're all individuals. And I don't know your experiences or what you've encountered, but I have mentored quite a few in my time. There is no one size fits all and I try to dispel that notion whenever I can. I recognize I come to the kneel with specific talents due to my personal makeup and the things I've done prior to its inception. I have never denied that. I know I'm one tough cookie. That doesn't make me any better than someone with a different leaning. It just makes me porcelaine.

I don't view those that require outside help with condescension either. In fact, I often intentionally befriend women very different from myself. I learn a great deal from them. They're able to let go in ways I find difficulty doing. It gives me pause and encourages me to tackles those things I've been reluctant to release. If I'm lucky I do the same for them as well and we both benefit. At least that's my hope.

The reality of a male dominant wanting to improve a submissive's appearance doesn't require debate. We're both aware they exist and have never disputed this. However, one truth doesn't negate its opposite. My commitment to honesty and responsibility for those I guide require me to be forthright. Yes, she can have someone that will do everything you said and more. And that's a beautiful thing angel, it really is. But I'd do her a tremendous disservice if I didn't remind her of the consequences of inaction. I wouldn't be a very good friend or mentor and I take both to heart.

I'm not better because I did it on my own. It was hard and I have shared my experiences with my dominant while this took place. There were good aspects and not so good that I had to deal with. I never dissuade anyone from entering those relationships, but I always encourage honesty either way. From both parties as I implied earlier.

Weight is the subject at hand but we could insert a different one and have the same discussion. For some it is an issue that requires input and for others it is not. One isn't better, lesser, or more, but merely different approaches. What you failed to grasp in my comments was the realities that many cannot accept due to their limitations. She needs help. But her condition compromises the very assistance that she seeks. So now what? That's the part I deal with and try to influence positively.

~porcelaine

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:38:36 AM

Lucienne

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Two cents from the peanut gallery... I didn't read any condescension in people's posts. In fact, I see a great deal of agreement and I'm not sure what exactly the dispute is.

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:41:01 AM

VideoAdminZeta

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Hi ladies. Please keep your comments, especially any personal comments, constructive and directed toward the thread topic. Or.... rent a mudvat, and tell me where and when you're going to have it out.

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:41:15 AM

barelynangel

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Yeah, i may be personalizing it because i get this tone from people a lot who look down their noses at people who actually enjoy and thrive in the very dependent concept of mastery by another. ESPECIALLY when it comes to weight loss. You get stories from people who are doing it on their own and they do have a tone that people who don't aren't doing it correctly.

This thread isn't simply weight loss, its about someone else implementing a fitness or weightloss plan on a sub or slave and it having long terms affects. You and porcelaine both have said no one implemented it for you but you did for yourself. If porcelaine stated she had someone else implement it for her while she was a sub or slave and kept it going, that would be different but unless i missed a big part of her explanation, she started it on her own. If she didn't, and had a Master who made the decision for her and implemented it -- that's different.

If this was simply a regular let's talk about weight loss then fine, yes her input would be helpful. But i didn't take the OP like that so to me, people deciding to lose weight on their own isn't a concept of this thread. I didn't deride her, i simply expressed the difference between being UNOWNED and owned. If that bothers people then you need to ask yourself why. But being unowned and owned are two very different concepts of living and perspectives even with regard to weight loss.

grins, all in all, to the OP, yes my Master implemented weight loss and fitness goals into my slavery, long term effects was i looked damn good for 16+ years (8 of those i was owned) and then it all went to hell in a hand basket the last couple years. He controlled it all from deciding what and when and why. I suck at doing it on my own now that i lost control over it (i never really controlled it, i just stopped being active and it snuck up on me), so i know i would need a Man interested in demanding a change to achieve his determinations because i know i coudn't respect a Man interested in maintaining me as i am. grins despite my stubbornness, i tend to work well with strong men whose will is stronger than my own to demand things.

NeuvaVida, is right, i do think i am personalizing this and i apologize. I just came off a discussion someplace else where people were very negative about dependency lol. So i apologize if my focus here may have had residue of that in them.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/31/2010 10:51:55 AM >

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:42:29 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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I honesty see and understand both where Barelynangel and Porcelain are coming from, there are these little divides that occur simply because of individual differences and personalities.

What D/s or M/s actually is, is pretty basic easy concept. Some people take to it like a fish does to water. However, this ain't always the case. At times there is a struggle, a battle, there are sacrifices that need to be made.

This is difficult to express in so many words. Mainly because I'm on the opposite side of the coin. While I have never implimented a weight loss aka fitness plan with anybody, I've had no cause or need to, I have dealt with other issues similar in nature.

I have been in relationships, where all I had to do was take a couple of minutes to express what I honestly thought, felt and believed and desired regarding an issue. It was fixed in 2.5 seconds flat. Did not require me diving into the internal workings of their mind at all. I do know that they had to mentally process things and correct their own behaviors. The issues become no more. It did not involve a lot of major work and effort on my part. I did not have to threaten to lay down punishments or whatever else. All I had to do was express dissapointment without being heavy handed at all.

On the flip side, I've been in relationships where it took a lot of work getting inside their mind, talking to great lengths, being firm every time the issue started to arise. Standing my ground and dealing with the issue over and over again, until slowly the behavior started to change. (to be honest, I much prefer those that desire to listen and obey/follow, there's less of a struggle).

Some people's issues I'm convinced are rather hard wired. I do know this, if somebody is really into another person and there heart and mind is in the right place, this takes priority over their own internal fucked up-ness.

This is rather difficult to explain, because D/s or M/s can be extremely easy or it can be like trying to pull another persons teeth with a pair of plyers. I'm not talking about Kink or sexual stuff here either.

Two things that are coming to my mind that seem to become center stage issues, are those with self-esteem or fear of some kind or another. Now, I'm certain somebody out these is reading this and is focused upon this evolving around kink. Wrong. This is about day to day relationship dynamics and day to day living.

Sincerely, there are differences and I would not have known any better if it were not for my own experiences in life.

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:43:57 AM

UniqueRaven

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Thank you Zeta, i will respectfully now retire to the "sploshing" thread.

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 10:47:22 AM

porcelaine

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barelynangel,

quote:

Porcelaine, listen -- i am NOT YOU. What i have been saying is i suck at being free. I don't implement things even I know that work because of my kowledge of same becasue I SUCK AT IT usually. I can do the basics.

You really don't get it. I don't want you to be me. I was trying to know YOU. That's why I asked. Understanding where you're coming from helps me to see your responses in a better light.

quote:

Your need to be accountible to SOMETHING porcelaine that you are willing to pretend you are sacrificing yourself to some figment of a Master yu don't know, you aren't accountible to yourself, you are pretending from what it seems that you are accountible to a Man who isn't existing in your life -- a figment. Which is FINE, it works for you.

I am accountable to myself. I really don't know where you're getting this from. But you're free to think what you will. I don't take offense. I understand that as a slave my body is going to be maintained according to the preferences of the one I serve. I know what the men I engage with find appealing. They're very similar. So, while I'm free I do what I can to get my house in order.

And since I adhere to IE in terms of slavery, then the concept of my body belonging to another has been truthfully internalized. It just is. I don't know about your experiences in your relationships, but it is a subject I have discussed at length and I have been queried about my unwillingness or inability to institute changes.

quote:

My honest question to you BASED on your statements is what do you need a master for? You seem perfectly capable of mastering yourself.

Actually I am. That is precisely why the men I relate with choose me. I set aside my need to do it my way and embrace his instead.

I think NuevaVida has summed the remainder up quite appropriately and it needn't be repeated. You're taking offense when none was ever intended. Questions aren't bad angel. I really wanted to understand and I'm sorry you didn't see that. Not everyone is the enemy nor are they seeking to put you down or trample on your way of doing things.

And just maybe you were giving me feedback that I could have used to help someone else. Someone more like yourself.

~porcelaine

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 11:03:53 AM

barelynangel

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laughs, porcelaine, this is said in all humored seriousness -- save yourself a headache, i don't let people "get to know me" on these boards. Its something i learned a long time ago to refrain from. Its not worth it to me.

I don't see anyone as an enemy -- let's not try and psychoanalyze now okay.

Porcelaine, what you were talking about to me was fine -- in the appropriate topic. I actually love this topic in and of itself. However, this topic to me was about it STARTING under the control of another and another implementing the decision and plans and having long term effects. To me, to talk about how one did it all on their own without the concept of M/s or D/s involved undercutted what the topic was and the importance to me of THAT focus. Yeah doing it on your own is great, but do you think you would have been where you are now if it wasn't "your idea" or "your implementation because of that environment you exist in?

To me, it takes a lot of personal as you said accountability, to me the hard part going from being under the accountability and determination of another to achieve this is just as hard because you do lose that "doing it for yourself and accountability TO youself." People many times who do it on their own, don't get this and so they don't understand the different struggle that exists because you don't have the control. Trying to compare it to doing it on your own, your own determination and your own implemntation is to me where confusion comes about.

anyway, its been interesting.

angel

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 11:10:50 AM

Andalusite

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I helped my former submissive and a couple of my former tops (in a LTR, not casual play) lose a lot of weight, and they kept it off while we were together. They asked for my help and support though, rather than my requiring it of them.

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 11:54:48 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Yeah, i may be personalizing it because i get this tone from people a lot who look down their noses at people who actually enjoy and thrive in the very dependent concept of mastery by another. ESPECIALLY when it comes to weight loss. You get stories from people who are doing it on their own and they do have a tone that people who don't aren't doing it correctly.

For me, I admit I am very proud of myself for what I was able to accomplish. But let me tell you, it was not on my own, even though I started out on this process unowned. I go to weekly meetings, without fail, and talk to my wonderful support group, and enlist the support of my co-workers (as in, "pleeeeeeeeeease stop offering me donuts!"), and anyone who is willing to jump in on the support/encouragement bandwagon. I have succeeded in none of my accomplishments on my own - they all required the help of others and they are were quite difficult. So, the "tone" you may be receiving might just be some pride, but I wouldn't necessarily interpret it as anything personal.

Plus, look at it this way - any time someone successfully accomplishes jumping a hurdle, they tend to be so excited about it that that's the only way they can see doing it. When my brother and sister successfully stopped drinking by going to AA, suddenly anyone who drank a lot needed AA. When my other sister became a born-again-christian (my family is all over the place, lol), anyone who didn't solve their problems through church was blind. And so on. I think it's just excitement at the success that you're seeing, and not anything personal.

quote:

This thread isn't simply weight loss, its about someone else implementing a fitness or weightloss plan on a sub or slave and it having long terms affects. You and porcelaine both have said no one implemented it for you but you did for yourself. If porcelaine stated she had someone else implement it for her while she was a sub or slave and kept it going, that would be different but unless i missed a big part of her explanation, she started it on her own. If she didn't, and had a Master who made the decision for her and implemented it -- that's different.

I can't speak for porcelaine here but I will speak for me. I did implement it on my own, but there's a story behind it, which I'll keep very short. I was really emotionally fucked up after my former owner released me. I spiraled for awhile - binge eating, drinking and smoking. I had to pull myself together because no one else was going to. I became scarily obese (scary to me) and, once I got my head on straight, I knew I had to focus on my body or I'd die an early death.

For what it's worth, the ex did implement a weight loss plan for me, but very unsuccessfully. Because of my emotional attachments to food, his use of ridicule and humiliation really only damaged me further on this subject. This is why I press that those who implement weight loss plans should really learn what they're doing, first. It could very well have turned out differently, and maybe his plan for me would have been successful, in which case I'd be posting a different perspective here. But I can only share my own experiences, and it was my experience that I had to take ownership of myself back or I'd have been in serious trouble.

My owner has learned what I need to succeed, and facilitates it through his own directives. But for me, because of the damage that was done before, had he just jumped in and started ordering me to reach a certain weight or pay consequences, I would have completely withdrawn and failed again.

quote:

If this was simply a regular let's talk about weight loss then fine, yes her input would be helpful. But i didn't take the OP like that so to me, people deciding to lose weight on their own isn't a concept of this thread. I didn't deride her, i simply expressed the difference between being UNOWNED and owned. If that bothers people then you need to ask yourself why. But being unowned and owned are two very different concepts of living and perspectives even with regard to weight loss.

I am not bothered by the differences between unowned and owned. Why would I be? Your public exchange with porcelaine is between you two, but what I observed painted its own picture, so I commented. The OP did not narrow his question to owned slaves; rather it was asked about if slaves or submissives had been given a weight loss program. I took that as in the past, in the present, owned or unowned. I preferred to take it that way since I love learning the perspectives from all walks of life - it expands my own thinking.

quote:

grins, all in all, to the OP, yes my Master implemented weight loss and fitness goals into my slavery, long term effects was i looked damn good for 16+ years (8 of those i was owned) and then it all went to hell in a hand basket the last couple years. He controlled it all from deciding what and when and why. I suck at doing it on my own now that i lost control over it (i never really controlled it, i just stopped being active and it snuck up on me), so i know i would need a Man interested in demanding a change to achieve his determinations because i know i coudn't respect a Man interested in maintaining me as i am. grins despite my stubbornness, i tend to work well with strong men whose will is stronger than my own to demand things.

It is good to know what you need, and I can honestly say I know how weight can sneak up on you and then wow, you're out of shape again. It has happened to me, as well. Because of some things I have gone through, I am committed to myself to not allow that to happen again, but this is something I will need to be aware of on a daily basis, for the rest of my life. Oh happy joy, huh?! I don't look forward to that at all, but it's something I have learned about myself.

quote:

NeuvaVida, is right, i do think i am personalizing this and i apologize. I just came off a discussion someplace else where people were very negative about dependency lol. So i apologize if my focus here may have had residue of that in them.

angel

It is very human to enter one conversation while still in the mindset of another. I hate when that happens lol. I think all of us in this conversation, however, are very open to the myriad of ways the M/s dynamic can be experienced. Thanks for realizing no one was criticizing your particular needs.

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 12:44:04 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BMW1969
Has anyone deised or impliments a weight loss/fitness program on a sub/slave for period of time that helped long term?

Yes and no. I did such a thing with Carol. It helped for some time, but our life went topsy-turvey before adequate time had elapsed for the changes to truly settle in. During the period of emotional crisis, I allowed a number of bad habits to creep back into our relationship including putting on weight (for the both of us).

The actual effort itself was entirely successful. Carol got down to a weight she hadn't seen since early high school. My gut feel is that it would've had long-term success if there'd been more time. As it is, I can only speculate on that. I just recently started up the "clean living" program again and things are progressing along nicely again.

In my mind, a key part of this is not simply making the commands to eat less, drink less, etc. It's also the internal commands which I use to reshape how she views the various vices. I'ts also worth noting that I did a pretty serious bit of self-education before I started. This was not simply "eat less".

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: D/s Weight Watchers - 5/31/2010 12:59:55 PM

porcelaine

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barelynangel,

quote:

However, this topic to me was about it STARTING under the control of another and another implementing the decision and plans and having long term effects. To me, to talk about how one did it all on their own without the concept of M/s or D/s involved undercutted what the topic was and the importance to me of THAT focus.

I didn't see a limitation implied when the question was presented. The OP left it open which allowed varying perspectives to be shared, which occurred.

quote:

Yeah doing it on your own is great, but do you think you would have been where you are now if it wasn't "your idea" or "your implementation because of that environment you exist in?

Although I haven't gone into the details of my experience here I have done so elsewhere. My previous partner took control and I responded according to his preferences. Our approach and ideas were very different but I was obedient. The end result was continued weight loss along with many issues that had never manifest before he got involved. In truth it was good and bad. However, our parting didn't hasten my commitment to better health. I simply had more on my plate to wrestle with than I began with.

quote:

People many times who do it on their own, don't get this and so they don't understand the different struggle that exists because you don't have the control. Trying to compare it to doing it on your own, your own determination and your own implemntation is to me where confusion comes about.

I understand the differences quite well. I was fortunate to encounter someone with a healthier philosophy and experience in this area. Doing so enabled me to recognize how measures can be implemented without the negatives I'd endured. I'm pleased to admit that my ambivalence no longer exists. What was previously lost has been regained and reconciled.

~porcelaine

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