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feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 3:59:01 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		 
not since we've had a few threads on feeling submissive had i actually thought a great deal about 'feeling' submissive.  im sure i do and have, but ive never really thought of it like that for some reason.

is it a feeling or is it a responsive reaction to being with someone who rings that bell in you.

i feel lots of things, love, sadness, the usual stuff and so, yes i guess when in submission i feel submissive, its those warm fuzzies, that electric shock inside, that squishy yummy thing but i dont think thats what people who are asking actually mean when they ask how to feel it more or when to feel it.

this feeling i think is an ellusive thing, its not something you can make youreself feel or even be made to feel by someone else unless the chemistry is there. 

so what is this feeling submissive thing that some people seem to be having a hard time getting to grips with.

for myself personally i look at the man, his character, personality, outlook on life and approach to me and see a man who wants a specific response to him being there - ive actually stopped looking at a man and thinking 'hm, is he dominant enough for me' i simply see a man with an objective and i try to do my best to meet that.  so for me its far more about my responses and reactions to him rather than some sort of esoteric feeling that anyway, because feelings are so fickle is not really something to pin a relationship on, IMO.

for me a feeling is that flippy, twitty, tickly thing that happens when he looks at me, touches me, speaks to me, wants me.

so is it then about that feeling we get when we are being submissive, the pleasure of pleasing and giving pleasure - i dont think thats what theyre meaning either.

so i have to admit im a bit unsure what this feeling is, its not something thats troubling me a whole lot, just im wondering if its something we could look at and maybe help out with.

and since theres a lack of cake and ive run out of chocolate and my cold is really phucking me off i thought id come here and bug you all with a stupid question



_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 4:18:05 PM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Sometimes when I meet people I want to make them happy, I will go out of my way to do so

Mostly when I meet people I don't

Thats what it is to me

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 4:23:59 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		Well a feeling is simply that - a feeling - and is transient by definition.

For me submission is more action oriented.  i can submit to anything, anyone, by my choice, at anytime - i don't have to have a "feeling" in order to do so.  If i wanted to i could lie on the floor and submit to my poodle right now - no brainer.

The difference is in the factor of what determines that submission - which is different from motivation, which is a feeling.  Determination will kick motivation's butt every time.

i used to wait for the "feeling" and then question why it never arose.  Now i've realized that submission is something that i do - it is expressing that deepest part of myself, namely, my submissive core, by my actions.  And often simply that expression of my submission brings out the Dominance in a Man, and, ta da, power exchange - i experience it a lot right now as i'm having conversations with potential Owners as an unowned slave.

i tend to not put too much stock in feelings - they can be processed and go away, always, with time.  Determination is the factor that enables me to consistently express that state of submission as a slave.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 4:33:38 PM   
SocratesNot


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Joined: 5/17/2010
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quote:

For me submission is more action oriented.  i can submit to anything, anyone, by my choice, at anytime - i don't have to have a "feeling" in order to do so.


Hehe, that's what I was talking about in previous thread
quote:


Now i've realized that submission is something that i do - it is expressing that deepest part of myself, namely, my submissive core, by my actions.  And often simply that expression of my submission brings out the Dominance in a Man, and, ta da, power exchange - i experience it a lot right now as i'm having conversations with potential Owners as an unowned slave.


This would be a perfect advice on "how to feel more submissive"



< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 5/30/2010 4:36:27 PM >

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Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

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RE: feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 4:43:28 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
quote:

For me submission is more action oriented.  i can submit to anything, anyone, by my choice, at anytime - i don't have to have a "feeling" in order to do so.


Hehe, that's what I was talking about in previous thread
quote:


Now i've realized that submission is something that i do - it is expressing that deepest part of myself, namely, my submissive core, by my actions.  And often simply that expression of my submission brings out the Dominance in a Man, and, ta da, power exchange - i experience it a lot right now as i'm having conversations with potential Owners as an unowned slave.


This would be a perfect advice on "how to feel more submissive"


Well i do want to acknowledge that it is the deepest fundamental part of me - my submission, and my need to please.  i have been called "profoundly submissive" before - which made my girly heart go pitter pat. 

So it isn't all about "acting submissive makes one feel submissive" - it is much more complicated than that - but the action reinforces the state of being for me, not the other way around.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to SocratesNot)
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 4:59:40 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

For me submission is more action oriented.  i can submit to anything, anyone, by my choice, at anytime - i don't have to have a "feeling" in order to do so.


Hehe, that's what I was talking about in previous thread
quote:


Now i've realized that submission is something that i do - it is expressing that deepest part of myself, namely, my submissive core, by my actions.  And often simply that expression of my submission brings out the Dominance in a Man, and, ta da, power exchange - i experience it a lot right now as i'm having conversations with potential Owners as an unowned slave.


This would be a perfect advice on "how to feel more submissive"



with this very notable exception....UniqueRaven has actually done it and she is speaking about HER own point of view. Nor would I think your premise that "acting submissive" will MAKE someone more Dominant or MAKE someone want to submit to someone they aren't identifying as dominant, comes close to fitting her statements, especially for other people.


In response to the cakeless, bratty, but very wise and adorable lally, for me I think it is both.

I mean, certainly there are people I could never submit to, because while I may be a feeling of fondness for them, and possibly even sexual attraction, I do not get that feeling that they are someone I could be that vulnerable with or submit to. I associate that as being a feeling. However, I think UniqueRaven is correct also, in that feelings are transitory and trying to describe or note their presence or absence can be like defining love. Maybe it's I do not have the state of mind, it doesn't matter, it's still the same, no matter how you characterize it. I've had some fantastic vanilla relationships with absolutely wonderful men that were still lacking because of this lack of whatever you want to call it.

I also agree that it is very much an action or state of mind in this regard. Once I have that feeling, trust, and relationship with someone, I continue to be submissive to them in my thoughts, and feelings. Yes, even exes, I have to stop myself from doing odd things that aren't fitting with the current state of friendship sometimes (so it isn't just about a current dynamic). At that point, I don't stop to examine it, I don't really even know per se that I am doing it, it just is. Additionally, I can say even in relationships there are moments when that state of mind is very much enhanced and highlighted and I change in my demeanor, presentation, personality, desires that IS an overwhelming FEELING of submission in my opinion.

However, I think also that having a personality that would be characterized as submissive and being a submissive in the d/s aspect are two different things. I don't tend to have the first at all. I have heard many argue that means I am not the later. I cannot submit to a chair (tongue in cheek, not a criticism) and in fact, I could not feel submissive with or submit to the vast majority of people I have encountered in "the lifestyle". But yet, I know and he knows that I very much am with the right person. So yes, for me, it is both a feeling and an action or state of mind.

Finally, for me, it isn't just as simple as the reaction we hear here often of "oh she's just a bedroom submissive" which is a ridiculous phrase I have grown to accept, but don't feel it's really true. I can tell you that many things that aren't about that can very much be controlled by someone I have the feeling or state of mind for.

I don't know the answer even totally for myself, I don't think there is one that's universal at all. I think we all vary dramatically in our own wonderful, quirky, unique and special ways.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 5/30/2010 5:02:44 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 5:04:30 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

is it a feeling or is it a responsive reaction to being with someone who rings that bell in you.


I actually don't know if it's a feeling or a response - it only happens with certain people but at the same time they can be sitting there doing nothing and I'll get the feeling. My heart swells with passion and I want him to look at me with possessive adoration.

For me it's not about service, or even sex (in the 'intercourse' sense not the 'sexuality' sense) but just about the interaction between two people, if that makes sense. I'm not a naturally submissive person, I'm not a people pleaser or a go with the flow type, and I don't always feel submissive in my relationship, but when I do get that feeling, it's like a burst of pure love, all shiny eyed and achy.

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 5:37:28 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

This would be a perfect advice on "how to feel more submissive"


with this very notable exception....UniqueRaven has actually done it and she is speaking about HER own point of view. Nor would I think your premise that "acting submissive" will MAKE someone more Dominant or MAKE someone want to submit to someone they aren't identifying as dominant, comes close to fitting her statements, especially for other people.


Exactly.  To say that just "acting submissive" makes someone submissive, or makes someone else Dominant by responding to that submission, is wayyyyyy watering down my point, and oversimplifying things.  And thank you for reinforcing that my post was about me, specifically - i don't even begin to speak for every slave/sub on these boards.

My point is that while i am deeply slave-wired and submissive, i don't always count on the "feeling" in order to perform acts of submission.  Sometimes you have to just do as you're told no matter how you feel about it as a slave, and let the feelings sort themselves out.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to laurell3)
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 5:38:46 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I absolutely agree, except the slave part (for me)

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 5/30/2010 6:22:40 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 5:40:57 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		For Carol, "submissive" is just her default state. I think of it like breathing. Unless there is smoke in the air or some other problem, we don't normally think about breathing. Carol's like that with submitting -- not just in regard me, but as a default worldview. Unless there is something happening which is preventing the submitting, then it doesn't feel like anything. If such a thing is happening, then it's not the submission she's feeling, but the awkwardness of not being able to.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 6:18:08 PM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		Actions by themselves I don't view as submissive...for me it's the desire to take that action that makes it submissive.

When I make a cake for a customer it's a simple process they place an order and I fill it. I don't look at that customer and feel a strong desire to bake them a cake... but I do look at a Dominant partner and feel a need or desire to provide what he wants...that's when an action feels like submission for me.

_____________________________

'Smile... it's the second best thing to do with your lips.'


I have an explosive personality...


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RE: feeling submissive - 5/30/2010 7:34:48 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		*nods*

Understood JB. But I take a more sociological view of submission. Also, the engineer in me is appalled at unmeasurable and unquantifiable stuff. So for me, I go with actions. If someone tells me to do something and I do, then I have submitted. The other emotional aspects that apply between Carol and I are not, in my mind, aspects of submission, they are aspects of our relationship.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to jbcurious)
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/31/2010 1:47:35 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		~FR~ based on the OP:

Hi lally,
Here's what it is for me. It is about feeling comfortable following. If I'm not with someone at least as smart as I am, I just can't see myself feeling comfortable following them because I can't trust their judgment. If I know they are not looking at the whole thing, they can't see the whole picture or the salient parts, then I can't be a follower. It just doesn't compute in my head.

That's about the only "feeling" I get. It's about feeling safe, feeling comfortable, and knowing the other person is worthy of my trust.

(I don't meen to sound arrogant or snotty. I just know this is my experience).

By the way, I feel the same way at work which can be a serious problem. I've had some really not-bright supervisors.

Best,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: feeling submissive - 5/31/2010 2:03:32 AM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		I think there is a difference in the way people with a submissive personality feel vs. those who don't but choose to submit to someone. In the latter case the submission is tied to the person rather than the action... if that makes sense?

_____________________________

'Smile... it's the second best thing to do with your lips.'


I have an explosive personality...


(in reply to leadership527)
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/31/2010 2:41:01 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

Well a feeling is simply that - a feeling - and is transient by definition.

For me submission is more action oriented.  i can submit to anything, anyone, by my choice, at anytime - i don't have to have a "feeling" in order to do so.  If i wanted to i could lie on the floor and submit to my poodle right now - no brainer.

The difference is in the factor of what determines that submission - which is different from motivation, which is a feeling.  Determination will kick motivation's butt every time.

i used to wait for the "feeling" and then question why it never arose.  Now i've realized that submission is something that i do - it is expressing that deepest part of myself, namely, my submissive core, by my actions.  And often simply that expression of my submission brings out the Dominance in a Man, and, ta da, power exchange - i experience it a lot right now as i'm having conversations with potential Owners as an unowned slave.

i tend to not put too much stock in feelings - they can be processed and go away, always, with time.  Determination is the factor that enables me to consistently express that state of submission as a slave.


the blue bit - thinking back i used to do the same thing, and thinking about it some more i wonder if that is why those early relationships were not so successful.

waiting for a feeling is really putting all of the onus onto the Dominant - image of sub standing there laconically all dressed up and ready, saying 'come on then, dazzle me with youre dominance - ' - oddly now that ive written that it doesnt really conjure up submission to me at all.  its that 'waiting for the sky to fall on our heads' thing -

im the sub, i do nothing, its youre call - kinda thing. which is fine if thats how people want to do it, but i agree with you, submission is something that i do too - and because the Dominant is doing his thing too the Ds or Ms whirs into action as a two way street.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/31/2010 3:17:04 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

In response to the cakeless, bratty, but very wise and adorable lally, for me I think it is both.

giggle))) .

I mean, certainly there are people I could never submit to, because while I may be a feeling of fondness for them, and possibly even sexual attraction, I do not get that feeling that they are someone I could be that vulnerable with or submit to. I associate that as being a feeling. However, I think UniqueRaven is correct also, in that feelings are transitory and trying to describe or note their presence or absence can be like defining love. Maybe it's I do not have the state of mind, it doesn't matter, it's still the same, no matter how you characterize it. I've had some fantastic vanilla relationships with absolutely wonderful men that were still lacking because of this lack of whatever you want to call it.

.


yes.  that feeling has kicked in with me a number of times, much to my annoyance once or twice too - something didnt jell.

again looking back i wasnt terribly good at recognising that lack of feeling - because my submissive urges were driving me on and because i was 'in love' with that whole feeling of submitting to my urges and not to the guy at all, on those occasions - when the honeymoon period with myself ended and my private party was interrupted by the guy making demands that didnt include me (with regard to what i wanted) it all fell to bits.

those feelings i felt were therefore false and built on a false premis.  it wasnt submission i felt at all.

......... then along came a guy who just hit all of those buttons and submission happened pretty much instantaneously  - that was a feeling for sure, very powerful and overwhelming.

so ok.  the feeling has to be there in the first place - the vibe - that this guy has whatever it is that gets my attention - and thats different for everyone and cant be described, as you say later in youre post everyone is different.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: feeling submissive - 5/31/2010 3:24:07 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

is it a feeling or is it a responsive reaction to being with someone who rings that bell in you.


I actually don't know if it's a feeling or a response - it only happens with certain people but at the same time they can be sitting there doing nothing and I'll get the feeling. My heart swells with passion and I want him to look at me with possessive adoration.

For me it's not about service, or even sex (in the 'intercourse' sense not the 'sexuality' sense) but just about the interaction between two people, if that makes sense. I'm not a naturally submissive person, I'm not a people pleaser or a go with the flow type, and I don't always feel submissive in my relationship, but when I do get that feeling, it's like a burst of pure love, all shiny eyed and achy.


i think that the collective is begining to think it might be a bit of both

in the end though its that gut reaction - as you say, he can be sitting there, legs all sprawled out doing nothing in particular and you just feel that squirmy wurmy ache for him.

it isnt something that can be forced.  after reading everyones thoughts on this and thinking it through a bit more, i dont think you can make youreself feel more submissive to someone.  you can go through the motions and try to engender a feeling through reaction and responses, but if that person youre directing youre energies towards doesnt have that 'thing' that creates that chain reacion in you, its going to be hard to do

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: feeling submissive - 5/31/2010 3:32:03 AM   
WestBaySlave


Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline 		 In my experience, submission is the way I relate in certain kinds of relationships. Yes, I can choose to submit to anyone I care to, in theory - it's more a matter of if they evoke the desire in my to relate to them that way. There needs to be both the desire on his part to dominate, and the desire on my part to return that with submission, for the dynamic to go anywhere mutually enjoyable. Being submissive to a vanilla guy will not turn him dom, and if I don't get along well with a dom, there's no way I'm submitting to him.

So, a lot of feeling submissive comes down to how I feel towards a man. If I like, respect, and he feels the desire to dominate me, I "feel submissive" towards him. It can be a constant state in relation to him once the relationship is established. Feelings ebb and flow as a matter of course, but I can feel a certain way towards a man in general sense, just as I can love someone yet feel anger, sadness, amusement, joy, or any number of other emotions in relation to them while my overall feelings towards them are ones of love.

I recognize that there are folks who are submissive towards everyone; men, women, children, pets, even assertive houseplants - that's who they are. But, that's not fundamentally who I am, and trying to be that way just leads me resenting people who have done nothing to earn my resentment. Even though I'm not a dominant person in social situations ( more of a loner, really - if the choice is lead or follow, I choose "other" ), for the vast majority of relationships, I prefer interacting on a broadly egalitarian basis. Only for relationships that are romantic, sexual, or whatever else you want to call the "mating impulse" relationships one forms, do I prefer to interact on D/s lines.



(in reply to lally2)
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RE: feeling submissive - 5/31/2010 3:33:43 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

.My point is that while i am deeply slave-wired and submissive, i don't always count on the "feeling" in order to perform acts of submission.  Sometimes you have to just do as you're told no matter how you feel about it as a slave, and let the feelings sort themselves out.


 -

so we're in the relationship and it isnt always about feeling, much of the time it is about responding, reacting to the Dominant - those feelings cant honeymoon you through every day and every hour of every day.

so to 'feel' more submissive toward youre dominant is a moot expectation - you either are or youre not - actions speak louder than words at this point and doing is stronger than feeling.

the feeling that got you into the relationship in the first place is there but it isnt what motivates or drives, the feeling is there and comes through but it isnt about being 'more' submissive or even of 'being' submissive - the feeling is now the feeling of being owned (or however we term it for ourselves) to the guy sitting there, sprawled over the sofa, paying us no attention whatsoever, and all we want to do is crawl all over him.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: feeling submissive - 5/31/2010 3:39:40 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbcurious

Actions by themselves I don't view as submissive...for me it's the desire to take that action that makes it submissive.

When I make a cake for a customer it's a simple process they place an order and I fill it. I don't look at that customer and feel a strong desire to bake them a cake... but I do look at a Dominant partner and feel a need or desire to provide what he wants...that's when an action feels like submission for me.


yes i agree.  it is infact i think, anyway, the POWER of INTENT - if the intent is there, from you and him, to him, from him, from him to you - the intent is understood and very powerful.

without that intent its just baking a cake for a customer.

the feeling of being understood and seen as you very accurately put it on another thread gives power to that intent.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 20
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