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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 5:42:18 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		FR:
If one would rather use the limited resources of law enforcement to chase down illegals who commit a misdemeanor rather than the felons who employ them that would seem to be prima-facia evidence of bigotry. One may not call them racists because the pc bigots will quickly pop up with "mexican is an ethnicity not a race"...using semantics and ignoring of course that the terms have been used interchangably for a long time. Of course the bigot, when cornered, will scream victimhood but the mirror of truth is obvious for all to see and for the bigot to whine and deny.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 6/2/2010 5:43:49 PM >

(in reply to flcouple2009)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 5:44:36 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Thompson,  bold print- every time, why???



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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 5:49:19 PM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline 		Exactly

Cubans we allow in if they hit the beach because they're Cuban.  Haitians we throw back.

When you pay attention to who gets fixated on it is no surprise people are thought of as racist. 

So you seem to think all of the Eastern Europeans who are here illegally just simply over stayed a visa?  so we just skip over the Russians, Serbs, and such are who here illegally and have created a huge problem in organized crime rings?  Yes, let's focus on some guy picking lettuce instead.


(in reply to Elisabella)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 5:52:46 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		At what point tho- does everyone you see look "illegal"

?

(in reply to flcouple2009)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 6:00:53 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Exactly

Cubans we allow in if they hit the beach because they're Cuban.  Haitians we throw back.

When you pay attention to who gets fixated on it is no surprise people are thought of as racist. 


I'm not sure where you're going with this unless you're trying to say that the fact that there's no news coverage of African or West Asian illegal immigrants is because there is no racism against those nationalities in the US.

Most of the time that news stories cover illegal immigrants from Africa, the Middle East, or Asia, the focus is less on the immigration and more about something else - terrorism, sex slavery, musing about why skilled African surgeons come to the US illegally to work as taxi drivers, etc.

quote:


So you seem to think all of the Eastern Europeans who are here illegally just simply over stayed a visa?  so we just skip over the Russians, Serbs, and such are who here illegally and have created a huge problem in organized crime rings?  Yes, let's focus on some guy picking lettuce instead.


While there might be news stories every so often about women smuggled in cargo ships, it seems that most immigrants from overseas first entered the US on a visa. It's a lot easier to secure ports and airports than it is to secure a long desert border.

(in reply to flcouple2009)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 6:30:54 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Thompson,  bold print- every time, why???





Perhaps it is because I know that you are getting older and my intense feelings for you compel me to do what is within my power to preserve your eyesight by using the bold face type.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 6:42:38 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Sings Geritol and medicare.  on my rocking chair. STOMP

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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 7:25:57 PM   
jin99


Posts: 29
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Many argue they have no problems with people who enters and resides the US legally and illegals are illegals because they want to break the law. They are over looking how difficult, and some would say, discouraging, US immigration laws are. The requirement to have substantial property, combined with the powerful dollar and high price of commodities, make it very hard for residents from most countries to apply for citizenship/residential status, even if they come from developed countries and solidly middle-class. That means an application is often hard pressed to afford a US citizenship even if he/she has vital and valuable skills to offer.

This does not make sense when even menial labor is in high demand. I have completed all of my higher education in the US, and I went to some very good schools. Yet, I am at loss as to applying for a green card unless I am to become fabulously rich over night or to have a potential employer willing to vouch for me in the US. Since F-1/J-1 status doesn't allow working out of a campus, this creates its own complications. For me, if I am to apply for a green card, there will be much headache. Now how on earth would your average Mexican who is willing to become a full citizen in the United States and and willing to work hard to contribute to the economy obtain a resident status, I have no idea.

< Message edited by jin99 -- 6/2/2010 7:26:48 PM >

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 8:06:14 PM   
Marini


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Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Saint

To answer the OP's original question: "Why are people so quick to call people "racist" because they are
against illegal immigration?"

It is really quite simple. People with extreme viewpoints such as those who fingerpoint and call people racist KNOW that certain buzzwords have extremely negative connotations. How many times have you seen a serious debate or argument going on and then finally one side gets frustrated and starts calling someone a Nazi, or Racist, Bigot, Sexist, etc. etc.?
I agree 100%,  which is sad because it becomes hard to really tell those that ARE really racists.

It is easy to ignore solid facts and reasonable logic to play to peoples emotions when you start using words that are negatively associated. If I am talking with someone on the street and out of the blue I scream loudly and call them racist and make a hysterical scene, there are going to be people who take my side without even knowing what is going on. No one wants to take the side of the person I am accusing of being a 'racist'.


What a wonderful and well thought out comment!
Bravo, Saint!
It is nice to see you posting!

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Saint)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 8:08:30 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I think it has to do with it just being the ace in the hole card.

The 'you're not compassionate/sympathetic to illegals' card just doesn't cut it.  Not in times where so many people have no job and have so many financial burdens.  The 'they are just looking to work' card doesn't fly when unemployment is so high.  The 'they just want to support their families' card doesn't work when so many people are having trouble supporting their own.  The 'they want better opportunities for health care and/or education' card doesn't work because people are struggling to afford their own health care.  (Big detractor in the national health care debate was the number of illegal immigrants.)

There's really nothing left but the low blow of the racist card.



Bravo! LadyP, what a great post.
Sometimes people call others "racist" because they really have nothing else to call them.

Freedom is just another word, when you have nothing left to lose comes to mind.
Hell, let me just call people "racist" when I don't agree with what they have to say.
The term will soon lose it's meaning, due to being thrown around so easily.
 

< Message edited by Marini -- 6/2/2010 8:12:35 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 8:18:53 PM   
AnimusRex


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Joined: 5/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Rex, I take it you are of the opinion that it does NOT matter if people come here legally or illegally?
Why even bother to have the legal immigration process?
Why not just do away with legal immigration, and let anyone and everyone come here legally, and let
the chips fall where they may?

We don't need the stinking legal immigration process either, I say let everyone in and no one needs to apply to come live here.


Actually, that's pretty much what we did for the first hundred years of this nation. That unchecked, unregulated immigration gave us the Founding Fathers.

But ok, we really do need to have control over our own borders; why do Mexicans walk a hundred miles through scorching desert, and suffer beatings, rape, and theft from smugglers, all to live here? Why not just get a green card and be legal?

BECAUSE...THE GOVERNMENT....WON'T...LET...THEM!

Our government deliberately keeps the number of green cards and work visas from Mexico low, in a vain attempt to keep Mexicans from coming here.

Yet the free market economy pays huge rewards to corporation for hiring Mexicans. It also pays huge rewards for the Mexicans who make it here- they can earn more in a day than they earn in a week back home.

Back in the day, when I was a free market Republican, we always used to say that if the market is evading government restrictions, it is because the government is unnaturally trying to stifle a force of nature; better to acknowledge reality and let the marketplace find its own level.

Wouldn't it be better to expand thenumber of green cards and work visas to match the number of Mexicans that the labor market needs, thus eliminating the smugglers, the lawlessness, the artificially low wages that illegals get paid?

(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 8:21:01 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PerfectSurrender

Because billions of dollars get invested by companies that have a vested interest in harboring illegals who will do work in a fashion that Americans, who fully understand their workers rights and where their lives should be, will NOT and they've purposely concocted a smear campaign against any all dissenters that believe in the process of naturalization.
 
You are spot on! Hell to the yes!
Bingo!


There is big money in illegals. Always ask yourself: who benefits? Who pays for all of this PR? Who buys the millions of dollars in ad slots? CERTAINLY NOT POOR ILLEGALS.

Nothing is about the good of the common man in politics, not in nations that have long forgotten their revolutions. It's all power and money. The truth is that it's corrupt old white men buying all of those ad slots insinuating that we HAVE TO accept burdens to our infrastructure that we can't possibly handle with the already insurmountable pork-barrel spending that's going on and the fact that we're in such dire straights due to our unethical trade with China (when rather we should be trading and building plants in Mexico, our neighbor, not a commie dictatorship).

The government wants a population it can exploit. The less we are exploitable the more they will replace us with foreigners who will gladly take the bottom rung of society as their station in life and it doesn't matter to anyone responsible how this aberration of capitalist bloat will effect us all down the road. All that matters is the bottom line of the dollar today, regardless of tomorrow.

Preach!  I think I love you!

This race-card is also pulled by Mexicans who legitimately do not understand why we don't want them here and just assume it's racism. We know it isn't racism, but how can they tell? They just know we're saying "stay the hell out of our country" and that SOUNDS racist enough for them. Apparently we hate them and want to erect a mountain range between us.

Hallelujah!  I am having a moment!

What they don't understand is that our gripe is with them not abiding our laws, customs and needs as a society. No nation should be forced to philosophically, ethically and politically accept an invasion, armed or otherwise. If they can not accept the process of responsibly entering our nation we should have doubts about them being able to be responsible and productive citizens.

We have enough people to mow laws, clean toilettes, drive trucks, cut trees and make burritos. Seriously, there isn't a single job that they do that some poor redneck wouldn't love to get his hands on. That isn't racism that's just common sense and that common sense often gets misdirected into racism in the minds of those this issue effects the most: lower class Americans with little education that desperately want to not be poor in their own nation and certainly can't battle the onslaught of an entire foreign army of workers that seek to replace them.


In my humble opinion, of course.


Your humble opinion was very well written, thank you so much for writing this.
Why so many people "don't get" what you eloquently stated is beyond me.
Don't be a stranger PerfectSurrender, you need to post more often.
Bravo!


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to PerfectSurrender)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 8:35:54 PM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		Any group who promotes the cause of only one race is racist. Who does that remind you of? It reminds me of LULAC, La Raza, NAACP, and the KKK.

Although everyone is a little bit racist in one way or another, the fact is, that more people are discriminated against for being old, fat, stupid, and ugly, than for the color of their skin.

In short, calling you a racist is the only way to get you to back down from the rule of law.



(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 9:11:24 PM   
jin99


Posts: 29
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:


But ok, we really do need to have control over our own borders; why do Mexicans walk a hundred miles through scorching desert, and suffer beatings, rape, and theft from smugglers, all to live here? Why not just get a green card and be legal?

BECAUSE...THE GOVERNMENT....WON'T...LET...THEM!


Plaudits to you sir, I cannot agree more. They are highly motivated to succeed and all they want is a better life for their family, in a country not ran by corrupt officials, arbitrary authority and organized crime. What is more American than that?

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 10:34:47 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Rex, I take it you are of the opinion that it does NOT matter if people come here legally or illegally?
Why even bother to have the legal immigration process?
Why not just do away with legal immigration, and let anyone and everyone come here legally, and let
the chips fall where they may?

We don't need the stinking legal immigration process either, I say let everyone in and no one needs to apply to come live here.


Actually, that's pretty much what we did for the first hundred years of this nation. That unchecked, unregulated immigration gave us the Founding Fathers.

But ok, we really do need to have control over our own borders; why do Mexicans walk a hundred miles through scorching desert, and suffer beatings, rape, and theft from smugglers, all to live here? Why not just get a green card and be legal?

BECAUSE...THE GOVERNMENT....WON'T...LET...THEM!

Our government deliberately keeps the number of green cards and work visas from Mexico low, in a vain attempt to keep Mexicans from coming here.

Yet the free market economy pays huge rewards to corporation for hiring Mexicans. It also pays huge rewards for the Mexicans who make it here- they can earn more in a day than they earn in a week back home.

Back in the day, when I was a free market Republican, we always used to say that if the market is evading government restrictions, it is because the government is unnaturally trying to stifle a force of nature; better to acknowledge reality and let the marketplace find its own level.

Wouldn't it be better to expand thenumber of green cards and work visas to match the number of Mexicans that the labor market needs, thus eliminating the smugglers, the lawlessness, the artificially low wages that illegals get paid?


The voice of reason never wins votes.

Unfortunately :-( .

It's unbelievably difficult to educate the idiots that surround me :-( ...

_____________________________



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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 10:35:34 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

It's unbelievably difficult to educate the idiots that surround me


Educating idiots just leads to well educated idiots.

(in reply to kittinSol)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 10:38:46 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

It's unbelievably difficult to educate the idiots that surround me


Educating idiots just leads to well educated idiots.


One can only hope...

_____________________________



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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 10:49:04 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		I was referring to the white people who have suddenly decided that racism is a terrible thing, and are quick to play the victim of ebil racist folks, who just happen to be dark skinned.


Anyway- Domiguy works his side of the street, I work mine.

(in reply to Elisabella)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/2/2010 11:52:47 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

I was referring to the white people who have suddenly decided that racism is a terrible thing, and are quick to play the victim of ebil racist folks, who just happen to be dark skinned.


I personally think that racial prejudice and the ability to feel hurt by being stereotyped are not limited to any race, the reason that white racism is considered worse than racism and racial stereotypes by other races is because the history of institutionalized racism in the US has historically been pro-white, and any institutionalized racism in favor of other races was designed to boost their social standing in relation to whites. Nobody really cares if Mexicans hate Puerto Ricans, except for the Puerto Ricans, who kind of hate Mexicans too.

I think institutionalized racism, discrimination, beliefs of inherent racial inferiority/superiority, and any form of direct racism that is based on power alone are things that need to be fought. No group of Americans should have any inherent power over another group of Americans based on the color of their skin.

That being said, IMO there will be no end to cultural prejudice or stereotyping in the forseeable future. So long as there are unique cultures, there will be culture clashes. It would take over 6 billion bits of information for the brain to comprehend that every person alive on the planet is, in fact, an individual person. Double that for it to comprehend that those individuals come in 2 genders. So there's stereotyping.

On this thread even, someone who claims to be fighting racism stereotyped Russian illegal immigrants as "criminals" and Mexican illegal immigrants as "lettuce pickers." With the best of intentions. It happens.

IMO, allowing virtually unlimited legal migration is not feasible. What happens when the minimum wage jobs run out? The average daily wage in Mexico is around $4USD. Daily wage at US minimum wage, 8 hour day, is approximately $58 USD. Which to me says that these jobs that get paid under the table could still be paid under the table. $30 a day would make it worth it for the employer to hire under the table (half the expense) as well as make it worth it for the immigrant to accept (7.5x what he'd make in Mexico) and after a couple weeks looking for legal work with no job offers, people start to get hungry. And the ability to hire under the table means that the pool of minimum wage jobs are going to dry up, as more people keep coming over who are willing to accept $30 a day.

To me, your solution doesn't seem feasible. For reasons other than race. Personally I think Mexican culture is pretty awesome, skull candies, tequila, spicy food, a language that sounds prettier than English, rock shows that switch between Zeppelin and Jaguares in their sets...and that whole macho thing a lot of Mexican guys have going on is infuriatingly adorably sexy. So I don't think you have to be prejudiced against a culture to want to limit immigration.

I might be wrong. You might be wrong. But the fact that you and I are able to discuss the issue itself without throwing around epithets like "racist" or "communist" makes me wonder why other people can't.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 1:24:44 AM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
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quote:

Actually, that's pretty much what we did for the first hundred years of this nation. That unchecked, unregulated immigration gave us the Founding Fathers


Thats kind of the point, unless you want to see the USA go the way of the Iriqouis Federation. Its kind of flippiant but serious, but how did that work out for the Indians?


I used to live in Alaska, and want every means available used to stop Russian illegals. They are not all illegals, but horrible criminals are hiding among the ones who want to make pizzas for a better life.

And honestly there are among the Mexicans also. Murderers and rapists run from Mexico, the opposite of how American criminals do in US movies. As well as drug runners and organized crime. Serbs can't do that. Its practically impossible for a Honduran.

And sanctions on Employers won't stop them.

_____________________________

I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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