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RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 1:26:39 AM

luckydawg

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quote:

Wouldn't it be better to expand thenumber of green cards and work visas to match the number of Mexicans that the labor market needs, thus eliminating the smugglers, the lawlessness, the artificially low wages that illegals get paid?

yes and the Republicans have been in favor of a guest worker progam for a long time. Its your new party that vehemently opposes it.

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Post #: 61

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 2:05:25 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

It seems like a standard tactic (of both the american Left and you) to ask about nonsense questions.......

Where did I ever say that cries fo Racism form the Left is never warranted?

It is quite supportive of my point, that you have to keep making up things to attack it.....

OK, Marini (and everyone who opposes illegal immigration) is a racist in your view....

I seem to have touched a nerve Lucky. Just because I am critical of your comment, you not only accuse me of attacking you, but associate me with the American left, despite your early post saying the opposite.

As for your comment on illegal immigration, you need to get a clue. I have often spoken out about the illegal immigration here in the UK. I also wonder as to your motive for suggesting I think Marini is racist.

(in reply to luckydawg)

Post #: 62

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 2:38:02 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

IMO the difference between Mexican illegal immigration and other nationalities is the fact that only Mexicans are able to illegally enter the US...sin papeles, as it were.

Not true, Canada also shares a border with the US

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Post #: 63

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 2:49:55 AM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Not true, Canada also shares a border with the US

Hehe I actually considered specifying that while writing but didn't want to dilute my point.

Though if unskilled labor came en masse from Canada I think we'd have a problem with it too. Or if unskilled labor came from the US *to* Canada, in search of the higher quality of living and all.

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)

Post #: 64

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 3:02:15 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Not true, Canada also shares a border with the US

Hehe I actually considered specifying that while writing but didn't want to dilute my point.

Though if unskilled labor came en masse from Canada I think we'd have a problem with it too. Or if unskilled labor came from the US *to* Canada, in search of the higher quality of living and all.

I made my point because you made it seem like Mexico is the only point of entry into the US when it isn't. Alaska is also a point of entry for illegals from Russia but noone seems concerned about that either. That does seem to make focus on Mexico racist.

By the way if Mexicans were entering in the "droves" and "waves" you guys mention, Mexico would be....well....empty by now.

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Post #: 65

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 3:04:18 AM

SoulPiercer

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Why is "illegal immigration" even an issue right now? Oh .. because it's election time and there were some harsh lessons learned in the most recent presidential election.

"He's a muslim!!" - Damn! That tactic didn't work.

"He's not a legal U.S. citizen!!" - Shit .. they didn't believe that either!

"He's going to let people abort babies, when they are 5 years old!!"

"He's a socialist!!" - Whooda thunk so many Americas actually want healthcare??

"He's gonna take away our guns!!" - Okay, we knew that was bullshit too, but we have pals who own gun stores, look at their profits soar!

None of those scare tactics prevented the election of Obama. It's time to try something new. What do we have left in the bag? Illegal Immigration! Today, illegal immigration is the one hot topic that get's certain segments of society all wound up.

This has been done over and over again. When Kerry realized Bush was kicking his ass, he told the country that if Bush was re-elected he would bring back the draft. Bush was re-elected. We have no draft. However, everyone I knew who was under the age of 25 bought into that and began campaigning for Kerry.

Now before anyone labels me a "leftist", I am a registered republican, ex-military and a gun owner. The people who know me personally are well aware of my political leanings. However, I agree with Colin Powell. Gen. Powell was right. The GOP has veered off the tracks. Unfortunately they've gone to warp 10 instead of backing down to impulse power.

Fact: There were no illegal immigrants on the boards at Bank of America, Chase, AIG, GM or Chrysler.

Fact: There were no illegal immigrants involved in the decision to send us to Iraq.

Fact: The were no illegal immigrants involved in the decisions to cut corners which lead to the biggest oil spill we have seen (so far) in our life time.

I, for one, seriously doubt that illegal immigration has or will cost us nearly as much money as the war, bank and auto industry bailout and the clean up of BP's mess.

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Post #: 66

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 3:10:46 AM

SoulPiercer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

By the way if Mexicans were entering in the "droves" and "waves" you guys mention, Mexico would be....well....empty by now.

Except for the fact that they reproduce like rabbits. Oh wait .. that's the Chinese. Heyy .. did that sound racist? Well, I'm no racist. Some of my best friends are Mexican and Chinese. I mean some are Mexican and some are Chinese, not that they are half-breeds. Oops .. I did it again.

< Message edited by SoulPiercer -- 6/3/2010 3:15:09 AM >

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Post #: 67

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 3:12:34 AM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
I made my point because you made it seem like Mexico is the only point of entry into the US when it isn't. Alaska is also a point of entry for illegals from Russia but noone seems concerned about that either. That does seem to make focus on Mexico racist.

By the way if Mexicans were entering in the "droves" and "waves" you guys mention, Mexico would be....well....empty by now.

True, but according to this, 57% of illegal immigrants in the US come from one country - Mexico.

23% come from other Latin American countries, 10% come from Asia, 5% from Europe and Canada, and 5% from the rest of the world.

I don't think it's racist to focus on a country that alone makes up more than half of the illegal immigration problem, and then compare it to Russia, a country whose numbers are comparably negligible enough to only show up as a portion of "Europe and Canada".

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)

Post #: 68

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 3:17:00 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

By the way if Mexicans were entering in the "droves" and "waves" you guys mention, Mexico would be....well....empty by now.

Except for the fact that they reproduce like rabbits. Oh wait .. that's the Chinese. Heyy .. did that sound racist?

Yes it does - and is - because it's a statement attributed to an entire ethnic group. You are saying all Mexicans (Chinese) reproduce like rabbits and that simply isn't true. If it were, the population would be larger than it is.

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Post #: 69

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 3:47:55 AM

DomYngBlk

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Joined: 3/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

This is a question I have wondered for a long time.
Why are people so quick to call people "racist" because they are
against illegal immigration?
Especially, rampant and unbridled immigration?

I know I would care a lot less, if the sheer numbers of illegal immigrants
were not so high.
I am against rampant and unbridled ILLEGAL immigration, and I don't give a rats ass what country
the people are coming from.
I would not be any more supportive of illegal immigration if millions of people were coming here illegally from Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Egypt, Somalia, Ethiopia, England, Ireland, Russia, China, Japan, Italy or anywhere else in this world.

I know for a FACT as a Black woman, that if millions of Black people start coming here illegally from Africa, that many that support the "poor hispanics" would not be so fucking supportive at ALL.
It WILL be such a very different "situation", if thousands and millions of Black people start coming here illegally.
Please, please tell me I am wrong, so I can laugh myself to sleep.

For many people it has NOTHING to do with ethnicity, and everything to do with flooding our
country with millions of people that are here illegally, period.
One of the things that urks me personally, is the drain of illegal immigration on our limited resources.

Some people think that Americans have unlimited resources and our pockets are so deep that it doesn't matter, but yet it does.
There are Hispanics that came here legally that are against illegal immigration, are they racist also?

So back to my OP, why does not being happy about millions of people flooding your country of origin, equate with making you a racist?

Can someone riddle me this one?
por favor?

That you are against illegal immigration doesn't make you a racist. However, making a law that basically says law enforcement has carte blanche to look upon someone with suspicion if they happen to look or talk like an "Illegal" Immigrant and ask this person for papers is racist. Supporting that law is racist. I ask you. If a German "tourist" is stumbling around Phoenix and looking suspicious...do you think the Police are going to stop and ask for papers or ask him if he is lost.

There have been posts on this board many times detailing policies that would attack the root problems of the immigration you seek to stem. The political will to do any of these isn't there in this country now and probably never will be.

Lastly, none of this even addresses one of the most hurtful forms of Illegal Immigration which is the abuse of Student Visas and H1's taken out by Corporations to bring in Foreign workers to keep wages here low and allow them to give the impression that Americans aren't able to be as effective as Foreign workers. All tech companies, most chemical companies, Engineering firms......use these visas to keep Americans from increasing wages and being employed. Yet, there is no outcry on this.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 70

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 3:47:57 AM

luckydawg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Who wants no immigration at all?

That's made up nonsense......

Screaming "Racist" has been the fallback position of the American Left for 25 years

Your claim may make sense if everyone who screams racist was from the left. I am not and I am sure others are not. Because we call people on racism when we see it we are suddenly left wingers and commies. Its pathetic.

Wow these lesser trolls are stupid. this is your first comment to me, in red. its fuckign stupid, and full of shit.

I have not accused you of attacking me, anywhere. That is just a whiny way of trolling. Making up false claims of attack. Its how you operate.

and that is pathetic.

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Post #: 71

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 4:01:34 AM

Marini

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Hello DYB,

You must be new around here, I have been talking about "outsourcing" for years, I don't have time to dig up ALL my posts on how outsourcing has helped ruin our country, but I will leave you with this!
Maybe it's time for me to start yet ANOTHER one of my many threads on how are country is on the road to ruin.
*I am MzMia, by the way.*
If you do a search, I have started many threads on this subject.
Enjoy!

Mz Mia/Norma Sherry and Outsourcing Of America

My favoritie article by Norma Sherry, is "Bye Bye Ms. American Pie", I am going to add that to my signature line.
Read it and weep, for our poor country.
Bye, Bye Miss American Pie; Outsourcing is Tantamount to Slavery

< Message edited by Marini -- 6/3/2010 4:10:19 AM >

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(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 72

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 4:06:32 AM

realcoolhand

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Yeah; we gotta get clear on what racism is before we start calling people racists.

There's "XXX-Supremacy," that's one thing, and generally uncommon.

Then there's what I think of as "racism," which, as Zephyr pointed out, is the attribution of a single characteristic to an ethnic group based on race, i.e., jews are clever, blacks are athletic, whites are unathletic, asians are good at math. Generalizations can start in the laudatory zone and move quickly to an ugly place, i.e., jews are greedy, blacks are lazy, whites are unscrupulous, asians are materialistic.

Then, of course, there's cultural chauvinism. "This is Alabama. We speak English here. If you don't like it, you can leave." Cultural chauvinism has played a HUGE role in the current immigration shouting match, with a significant majority of Americans expressing supposedly legitimate concern over the loss of "American" culture as "we" are "overwhelmed" by "them." Cultural chauvinism is entirely mindless (they didn't used to speak "English" even in England) and dangerous, particularly when as at present the suspect culture (hispanic, specifically Mexican) is associated with a particular ethnic group.

Then there's just plain old fashioned opportunism, where smart people play on the above for political gain. Nixon was not a racist in the least, but his Southern strategy played on white-supremecism, racism, and cultural chauvinism in the South to win the formerly blue states south of the M-D line. While he was ultimately a pretty good president, the damage that strategy did was unforgivable, and we're seeing more and more of his approach these days.

So forgive us lefty pinko commies for crying 'racist' too quickly sometimes, but we've seen where cultural chauvinism can lead (to racism) and would rather nip that poisonous flower in the bud.

< Message edited by realcoolhand -- 6/3/2010 4:07:27 AM >

(in reply to luckydawg)

Post #: 73

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 4:09:22 AM

DomYngBlk

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I wont disagree but the reason I brought up H1's is that it is a form of Illegal Immigration that is never talked about. How many of these workers actually ever return to their home country if or when the H1 is revoked or the company lays this individual off. I don't see anyone hanging outside of Sun Microsystems asking for documentation. It is a racist law with racist leanings in Arizona.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 74

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 4:20:55 AM

luckydawg

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Ok Realcoolhand.

Admiting it is the first step to recovery.

I actually have to explain to you the damage done by "crying wolf"? Really?

And I don't think that's why O59 and a group of others keep screaming "Racism" everyday.

But we can disagree on that.

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Post #: 75

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 4:25:45 AM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

I wont disagree but the reason I brought up H1's is that it is a form of Illegal Immigration that is never talked about. How many of these workers actually ever return to their home country if or when the H1 is revoked or the company lays this individual off. I don't see anyone hanging outside of Sun Microsystems asking for documentation. It is a racist law with racist leanings in Arizona.

Very good points, DYB!
I think unbridled immigration, outsourcing, and the over use of H1's are all in the same pot.
The point is, when is joe public going to wake up and see what is going on?
My prediction is we might see some changes when unemployment doubles.
That is when people might wake up, and start taking it to the streets.
Have a great day.
The next revolution will be televised.
Power to the people!
Peace Out!

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 76

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 4:34:56 AM

realcoolhand

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Ok Realcoolhand.

Admiting it is the first step to recovery.

I actually have to explain to you the damage done by "crying wolf"? Really?

And I don't think that's why O59 and a group of others keep screaming "Racism" everyday.

But we can disagree on that.

That's some intelligent criticism there, chief.

Edited to clarify that it seems like you don't disagree with my taxonomy, or my analysis of the risks of cultural chauvinism, but you believe that crying cultural chauvinism is akin to crying wolf. I'd say it's more like crying "wolf tracks."

< Message edited by realcoolhand -- 6/3/2010 4:40:19 AM >

(in reply to luckydawg)

Post #: 77

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 6:46:50 AM

thornhappy

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If you're referring to me in regards to the "lettuce pickers" comment, it wasn't a stereotype. I lived in CA for 19 years, part of it in Silicon Valley. Drive south of there (say about Salinas south past King City) and you'll find very large farms raising "stoop crops" (lettuce, strawberries, tomatoes, etc.) That is terrible work, and the labor subcontractors (keeps the owners legal) frequently hire illegal immigrants, who are treated like crap. Some died from heat exhaustion due to a lack of water and work breaks. Others were poisoned due to the lack of protective gear while applying pesticides.

In the Central Valley I think there are more tree crops (orchards).

Illegal immigrants were also hired for construction work when the boom was on, working on homes all the way down to King City. The developers turned a blind eye to it, and it didn't get a lot of press until the terrible workmanship made for lawsuits.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
On this thread even, someone who claims to be fighting racism stereotyped Russian illegal immigrants as "criminals" and Mexican illegal immigrants as "lettuce pickers." With the best of intentions. It happens.

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 78

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 8:28:11 AM

Moonhead

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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
Alaska is also a point of entry for illegals from Russia but noone seems concerned about that either.

Wasn't caribou Barbie on about that one at one point? (Though that might just have been a half arsed attempt to talk her way out of her "I can see Putin from my house" gaffe.)

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(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)

Post #: 79

RE: Why are people called racists because they are agai... - 6/3/2010 10:49:35 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Who wants no immigration at all?

That's made up nonsense......

Screaming "Racist" has been the fallback position of the American Left for 25 years

Your claim may make sense if everyone who screams racist was from the left. I am not and I am sure others are not. Because we call people on racism when we see it we are suddenly left wingers and commies. Its pathetic.

Wow these lesser trolls are stupid. this is your first comment to me, in red. its fuckign stupid, and full of shit.

I have not accused you of attacking me, anywhere. That is just a whiny way of trolling. Making up false claims of attack. Its how you operate.

and that is pathetic.

Why is my comment in red wrong ?

"Its F...Ing stupid and full of shit" hardly seems a non-trollish response, does it.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 6/3/2010 10:50:33 AM >

(in reply to luckydawg)

Post #: 80

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