Imagine there's no stock market...

Imagine there's no stock market... (Full Version)

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subtee -> Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 6:31:38 PM)
I've been ruminating about this quite a bit lately. Many of us are stung by the dismal economy, relentlessly trickling down it's hardships on people who work hard and expect relatively little. The markets, however, have given much to those who produce nothing, give back nothing, and, seemingly, help not at all in dire times. Instead, when they hurt we bail them out because we fear the consequences of their demise, at the expense of our own. It's a shell game, isn't it? With those who best know how to manipulate from greed do the best. Where's the good? How does it seem to you?

pahunkboy -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 7:03:40 PM)
-- in such a scene- are there contracts? corporations?

Brain -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 7:16:52 PM)
It seems to me if you can’t beat them join them. So that means buy stock in J.P. Morgan and Goldman Sachs.

Level -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 7:22:24 PM)
tee, I agree with you. I fucking hate the stock market. It's lunacy.

Musicmystery -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 7:59:47 PM)
quote: How does it seem to you? I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the stock market, tee. It's people investing in businesses and being able to buy and sell their stake. Treating it like a casino, attempts at manipulation, the impact of very large institutional trades, short term thinking by management looking at share value, and mistaking market reactions for the economy's fundamentals are all complications, but can be mitigated with regulation and common sense. Without it, my investment options would be limited to low interest alternatives, and my retirement fund would be a fraction of what it is now.

subtee -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:21:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: How does it seem to you? I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the stock market, tee. It's people investing in businesses and being able to buy and sell their stake. Treating it like a casino, attempts at manipulation, the impact of very large institutional trades, short term thinking by management looking at share value, and mistaking market reactions for the economy's fundamentals are all complications, but can be mitigated with regulation and common sense. quote: mistaking market reactions for the economy's fundamentals are all complications It seems to me this is rampant and will refuse to be regulated. quote: Without it, my investment options would be limited to low interest alternatives, and my retirement fund would be a fraction of what it is now. And by the same stroke, some who worked hard and bought in as they were told have retirement funds that are fractions of what they could have been, no? What about the "American Dream" of hard work and entrepreneurial spirit rewarded? Instead, computers and manipulators are running/ruining any values that may have initially been hoped for...it seems to me.

Musicmystery -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:29:07 PM)
Well then, perhaps you shouldn't invest...

subtee -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:31:37 PM)
Hahaha, no I shouldn't. Not having money to play with. Which is, rather, the point. Is the stock market something other than a way to make money out of nothing? Just ruminating as my son has left tonight and sudoku was too easy today...

Musicmystery -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:33:02 PM)
Only if there's something wrong with owning part of a business.

servantforuse -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:36:17 PM)
You should do some research on the history of the stock market before making a dumb post. Without a market to invest in companies, there would be no companies. Money doesn't grow on trees.

subtee -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:38:29 PM)
But the stock market has gone far beyond just owning a piece of a business, hasn't it? I heartily admit I don't understand much of it. But isn't that what players "bank" on? Short selling and Enron's control of energy, etc., it's beyond believing in a product/service and therefore supporting that product/service with share? Doesn't it only work if some are stepped on?

wittynamehere -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:38:55 PM)
The stock market is no longer about investing in a business. Pretending it still is qualifies as naive at best. I agree with the OP. Shuffling numbers in a rigged system has nothing to do with productivity. For every dollar made, a dollar is lost. Inflating the stock market to a zillion and beyond doesn't mean the economy is healthy, it just means the stock market is inflated to a zillion and beyond.

Musicmystery -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:41:26 PM)
So look at a company's fundamentals and make sound business decisions instead of trading.

subtee -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:42:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse You should do some research on the history of the stock market before making a dumb post. Without a market to invest in companies, there would be no companies. Money doesn't grow on trees. No, it grows on virtual trees, imagined by manipulation and earnings on insider trading and other manipulations that the average wage earner isn't privy to. Sorry for my "dumb post." You are free to go away

realcoolhand -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:42:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee It seems to me this is rampant and will refuse to be regulated. Whoa, whoa; you "regulate" things enough to CREATE A MARKET, not so much that it impedes rational decision making. "The stock market" is one of the few ways that folks with present wealth can put that wealth to work. Why would you want to stop that from happening? As for the present financial crisis, it was NOT the stock market to blame; some of the actors LISTED on the market, sure, but they were operating in out-of-market fora, such as the CDS "market," which really is nothing more than gambling at present (and with no clear statement of the odds). But the stock market itself is really, really wonderful. Please don't hurt it.

subtee -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:45:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: realcoolhand "The stock market" is one of the few ways that folks with present wealth can put that wealth to work. Why would you want to stop that from happening? . Just this. It seems to me the folks with present wealth don't put that wealth to work. They keep it and ask for more.

Marini -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:45:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wittynamehere The stock market is no longer about investing in a business. Pretending it still is qualifies as naive at best. I agree with the OP. Shuffling numbers in a rigged system has nothing to do with productivity. For every dollar made, a dollar is lost. Inflating the stock market to a zillion and beyond doesn't mean the economy is healthy, it just means the stock market is inflated to a zillion and beyond. [sm=goodpost.gif] Sad thing is, I am starting to look at the stock market as being in the same league as going to Vegas. Feeling lucky? Well let it ride then! Vegas===stock market=== is there a big difference? Anyone wanna guess what the markets would LOOK like without all the money thrown into it to prop it up? I am far from an "expert" but hell, anyone can see the markets of today, are not the markets of 10, 20 years ago. Hang on to your hats, and lay your money down!

Musicmystery -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:47:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery So look at a company's fundamentals and make sound business decisions instead of trading.

subtee -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:49:18 PM)
Sorry. Like the employees of Enron did? When they were repeatedly lied to and the execs were selling? [Edit to add, it was an edict from above; not really an option]

Musicmystery -> RE: Imagine there's no stock market... (6/3/2010 8:53:17 PM)
You consider that a sound business decision based on the company's fundamentals? For starters, a little diversification would have been wise.

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