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RE: Doms/Masters who were actually abusers - 6/6/2010 12:48:01 PM

lally2

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.the thing is i might have experienced physical and emotional abuse in some or all of my Ds or Ms relationships. a punishment that went too far (but was his right to do so and he was very attentive to how i was coping throughout), emotional detachment and lack of consideration toward my emotional well being (because the guy really hadnt got a clue what he was doing) - verbally abused (because i aggravated him and he reacted by kicking me and calling me a stupid cunt) - three instances that stick out in my mind as moments that could have constituted cruelty - those guys could have been hiding behind their title to behave in any way they liked with the codicil that as their sub/slave i was expected to submit to everything - even the shitty times.

the first, the punishment i never ever considered abusive - i earned it fair and square. the emotional cruelty is something i dont and will never accept and being kicked and called a cunt was the begining of that particular liason ending.

abuse can be hidden here, very easily, as others have said, more so than in a flagrantly abusive vanilla relationship where absolutely no consent (other than the silent consent of sticking around) is given.

the waters get muddied by dint of the power exchange and can leave the sub confused as to whether she is being abused or simply capitulating to the dynamic she agreed to.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 6/6/2010 12:49:26 PM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

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RE: Doms/Masters who were actually abusers - 6/7/2010 6:41:04 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

To note, I liked Marc's description of "Destructive Negligence" as this is something I am quite familiar with. I recall a huge internal struggle with staying true to my commitment, along with believing "I'm a slave; I have to take this from him as his property" versus an inner pull for self preservation. It was a difficult place to be, so thank you, Marc, for spelling that out so well.

I believe there is a fine line there at times. Obviously, serving as a consensual slave has its challenges—that is, if you really wish to embody the essence of the idea. There is a lot a slave should accept with grace that most of society would deem abusive and exploitative. There is no question about that in my mind—but when your roots wither from lack of sustenance or firm soil, when you have realized that you are submitting to a mirage turned moron who subverts your mental stability at every turn either through irresponsibility, pathological mind games or astronomical stupidity, it's time to redirect your energies into a more worthy pursuit.

A good distinction. This was precisely the struggle I was referring to - that fine line you speak of. It is not always so clearly defined, or as obvious from the inside.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
Lastly, if I may add, it is one thing to be lied to. It is another to choose to believe those lies because of ones desire for them to be true.

quote:

Well said. There does come a time, I believe, when naivety or ignorance ends and enabling our own reluctant self-torture begins. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result isn't the definition of insanity; it's more akin to repetition compulsion, as it's called in the world of psychology.

I know I have been guilty of this, and people I know have been guilty of this. People can be really good at "filling in the blanks" with the picture we want to see, rather than reality or, dare I say, simply a blank. Some of the most sound advice given to me was by my mother, who said "He didn't lie to you; you lied to yourself, by choosing to believe the lie." Amen, Mama. It is a good position to be in, to rely on the truth over a mirage. Even when the truth is not what we would prefer.

(Don't ask me what happened to the quotes here. Four attempts and I'll just have to assume you know who said what.)

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RE: Doms/Masters who were actually abusers - 6/7/2010 8:15:15 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobanna

I was wondering how many subs/slaves have found themselves in a relationship where the person they thought was their Master/Dom/Domme (or hiding under the title of Master/Dom/Domme) actually turned out to be an abuser. (Out of control, violent, emotionally abusive, sexually abusive) If so, how did you handle it? What was the changing behavior of the Top that made you think they were one way, but they actually turned out to be abusive? (btw, I myself am NOT in this type of relationship -------> but was curious to find out how often this mistake is made.)

Such was par for the course. I grew up in an abusive environment. It's how I related to the world around me and it colored all of my expectations and interactions. I had a lot of gaps in my formative years having an absentee father and a mother who was also absent a lot then when she was around kicked the crap out of us as did several of her boyfriends and husbands (due in large part to drug/alcohol abuse). That was *normal* so to seek out a normal relationships automatically included abuse. Sometimes that's all you know. It took a lot of years to change a mindset that had been instilled in me almost since birth and where I got to a point that I was *not* okay with being lied to, belittled and treated like a nothing but then I stopped doing all that to myself and once I started treating myself as worthy and deserving I noticed that there a few other people who thought I was actually okay as well. As my self-esteem grew my tolerance for abuse diminshed but I don't forget it mostly because I don't ever want to repeat it and I know how easy it could be to go back into that place. I still flinch and I think I probably always will. Sudden movement just does that to me and I haven't been able to break that tendril from my childhood and early adult years and I know that Himself gets a little hurt and I think he thinks it's because I don't trust him completely, but I do and the flinch is instinctive reaction and has nothing to do with him at all.

I don't consider I made mistakes in my choices as I choose the *known* and automatically dismissed people who weren't my idea of *normal*. It's a shame we didn't have a television when I was a kid.. I probably could have used some Leave it to Beaver or Father Knows Best to at least get some diversity in there somewhere so it didn't take me so blasted long to figure things out on my own. Thankfully, I did figure it out and I have a pretty cool relationship with a pretty cool guy and what really rocks is that I know I deserve it.

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Doms/Masters who were actually abusers - 6/7/2010 10:32:43 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I know I have been guilty of this, and people I know have been guilty of this. People can be really good at "filling in the blanks" with the picture we want to see, rather than reality or, dare I say, simply a blank. Some of the most sound advice given to me was by my mother, who said "He didn't lie to you; you lied to yourself, by choosing to believe the lie."

I like the terminology. It fits quite well. I suppose all things must come to an end at some point. Even the castles we build in our mind.

~porcelaine

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RE: Doms/Masters who were actually abusers - 6/8/2010 11:05:42 AM

cassandria

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I've found it to be rare that a slave hasn't met with abuse in her lifetime. I'm no different.

I can only speak from my own viewpoint here, as a slave, but obviously abuse occurs in lots of different types of relationships - both in society, and within the bdsm community. I don't personally feel that there's more in either realm; I think it's a societal thing.

As a young girl, I was drawn to men who were a lot stronger than me (nothing's changed lol) And I didn't have the relationship experience to understand what made a man a 'good Master' or what qualities he could posess that would harm me. I learned. Or, am learning. I don't pretend to have it all figured out. That power you dominant men have is intoxicating, to me. Sometimes so powerful that I can inadvertently overlook serious flaws. Sometimes my need to serve is so strong that it can have me want to block out, or ignore, signs that I don't think I would miss at other times. Our circumstances can also depict what we accept in our lives.

As a slave, I have this incredibly...nay, impossibly...deep, deep desire to seek approval. To be found pleasing. It does things for me that no orgasm ever could. Actually, I often have to be told to quiet my mind, and allow the orgasms to come...forced, you could say. Because that's not my nature to stop focussing on whom I'm with, and I have to halt that focus to find my own pleasure, so to speak. I would, any day of the week and many times more on Sunday, rather be someone who gives of herself. In giving of myself, in accepting - welcoming - direction, I feel good. I feel whole, I guess you could say.

And the reality is, that there are some more predatorial individuals who prey on that nature, wanting to utilize it for their own means...which while objectifying a woman and just carnally using her, abusing her, coldly owning her.....it might be a hot idea....but when it comes to a 24/7 healthy Master/slave relationship, it just will create a very sad little girl, who struggles in her slavery rather than rejoices in it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was sitting here thinking of some of the things that I guess I've learned over the years..and it goes hand in hand with the idea that another poster mentioned, the personal responsiblities that submissives/slaves have, to care for themselves...here's a few that came to my mind...

I do not believe that slavery means constant happiness.
I do not believe that slavery means zero self-esteem.
I do not believe that slavery means I may not speak, at all.
I do not believe that slavery means I may not reach out for help, if I need it.
I do not believe that slavery means that my opinions are nullified.
I do not believe that slavery demotes me, as being worth less than another woman (for example)

I believe that slavery is my choice, at least here in North America it is.
I believe that I can delight a Master, when I am cared for.
I believe that the right Master can lend me His strength, allowing me to do more than I can alone.
I believe that sometimes, I feel good when treated badly. Which is eff'd up. But it is what it is, and I put that in the hands of an owner.
I believe that a good Master needs to check himself occasionally, watching that he doesn't abuse his power - at least not consistently.
I believe that in any Master/slave relationship, that the potential for that exists. The abuse of power. And that is a risk I'm willing to take, to gain what I need in order to be happy.

One thing I was told the other day, in a very different context but it applies I think....is that "people are where they're at". I had to learn, *am* learning, on my own path. My experiences are my own, and some, looking back, I feel I could have avoided had I been a bit smarter, gone slower, used my head more. And if I had, I would have been happier overall I think...and I would have taken care of myself. I didn't clue in that that was going to need to be my own responsibility...to care for myself. And it's not, not when in a relationship...it's mine AND his at that point...but initially, I need to take the upper hand in that regard. Which was foreign to me, and I think I fought doing that until being in a situation that was terrifying, and well, we grow through pain don't we? I watch more closely now, give more time to guage reactions, things like that.

I will say this though...once you're deeply into an abusive relationship? It takes a lot of courage to leave. I think that was more frightening for me almost than what I was living, in it. And I'll never judge someone who can't seem to find that courage. I'll probably try to reach out though, as kindness is sometimes the precursor for wanting more.

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RE: Doms/Masters who were actually abusers - 6/8/2010 3:02:12 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cassandria

I've found it to be rare that a slave hasn't met with abuse in her lifetime. I'm no different.

Statistically speaking, if you're correct that's pretty darned sad. I'm happy to say there are notable exceptions to that assessment.

quote:

I feel I could have avoided had I been a bit smarter, gone slower, used my head more. And if I had, I would have been happier overall I think...and I would have taken care of myself.

You'll save yourself a lot of heartache and grief by taking that approach. Well stated. :)

~porcelaine

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RE: Doms/Masters who were actually abusers - 6/11/2010 9:57:15 AM

Schatzlein

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How do you know if a Dom/me is abusive?

They ignore your limits (always lay those out! Limitless BDSM is only for very experienced folks who really know themselves and their partners inside and out!)
They ignore your safeword (always have one even if you never use it)
They play unsafely (i.e. they give you a blistering hot enema, they leave you tied up in one position too long, they don't tend to any of your injuries promptly after a scene or they totally skip physical and emotional aftercare altogether. . .)
They have a bad reputation in the local group. .

Those are just some beginning ideas.

Bottom line: submission is a CHOICE! When you reach your limits and communicate that, a good Dom will immediately stop the scene and tend to you. After all, He or She is responsible for your health and safety while you are in their care and control. But always lay your limits out before starting anything, if you aren't willing to go very far a Dom/me has a right to know it up front and pass on you.

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RE: Doms/Masters who were actually abusers - 6/11/2010 10:06:48 AM

sexyred1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

I know I have been guilty of this, and people I know have been guilty of this. People can be really good at "filling in the blanks" with the picture we want to see, rather than reality or, dare I say, simply a blank. Some of the most sound advice given to me was by my mother, who said "He didn't lie to you; you lied to yourself, by choosing to believe the lie." Amen, Mama. It is a good position to be in, to rely on the truth over a mirage. Even when the truth is not what we would prefer.

Yes, and this is particularly true of a very long term relationship where the person was one way when you met them and then changed. You still wish for the old person, but it just a phantom.

It is very hard to break that when you were crazy about someone.

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RE: Doms/Masters who were actually abusers - 6/11/2010 10:06:56 AM

manicimp

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I found this a long time ago, this thread reminded me i'd still got iy so thought I would share with others........

Master Or Abuser

I suppose to some there is no difference between the two. After all, doesn't a Master use and effectively abuse their slave in much the same way an abusive partner does?????

Yes they do in some ways, yet not in others, however the difference lies in one single word.....

Consensual.

Having been subjected to forced slavery to the extent that it nearly took my life I know the difference. However to some the line may not be that clearly defined and that can cause problems with often devastating consequences.

I have always been submissive by nature, always wanting to please others, always making sure everyone else was contented before, if at all, ensuring I was. I was always drawn to Dominant personalities. I always respected authority even viewed it a little different to others. It is that nature that led me and many others to find them selves in abusive relationships and often not realizing it until it's too late to get out.

It isn't always easy to spot the difference between a Master and an abuser and often by the time you do you have been sucked into a relationship and brain washed enough to find yourself seemingly unable to get out.

The following pointers I have written to hopefully try and help new and often, though not always, naive submissive. They are not a statements of fact merely my views from experience.

Being apprehensive of your Master is normal and in fact healthy in an M/s relationship however being afraid of him fear ISN'T. Being afraid of the Man you are entrusting your well being to is not a good sign. Living in fear is unhealthy for you and for the relationship. As I said being wary or, cautious, or a little nervous is acceptable but fear will ultimately destroy you.

Can you approach your Master with worries possibly even complaints?? i mean could you go to your Master and, obviously with respect and if deemed at the appropriate time, say "Master i am not happy with this and this and that worries me...."? If you can and He will listen and consider your points then you have a healthy relationship, if however you can't or he won't allow it then something is wrong. Although a slave/sub doesn't dictate the relationship, but they do have and should use their voice and that voice should be heard, always.

You have failed a task for your Master; how do you feel? If the answer is ashamed, disappointed in yourself, hurt maybe, you feel bad because you have let him down, worried about telling Him because you know he will be disappointed in you and that in its self will hurt more than any crop or cane he may impose, yes? Good! That is how I'd feel and from others i have spoken to that seems to be the general overall viewpoint. Are You scared of telling him, really scared? Do you fear not him but the punishment he will impose?, Will the punishment hurt more than the emotions within? Bad! Punishment shouldn't predominantly be physical pain; it is the mindset with it that makes it punishment. If your punishment is a physical beating then something very definitely isn't right.

I am aware that not all couples have safe words. i for one don't have one but i have implicit trust in Master. However if you do have one, is it honored immediately? Does your stop word mean the scene or the activity will STOP dead there and then? If so then you have no worries, if not, if he carries on just that little bit further, time to ask how much further will he carry on next time. Will he stop the time after that? What's the point of a safe/stop word if it isn't honored? For those that don't have a safe word, does your Master notice you in distress, if so then what does he do? He should by rights either stop or alter what he is doing until the moment of distress has passed and before resuming ensure that you are safe mentally and physically. If he does not notice you in distress then you should consider choosing a safe word for the future and obviously then following the guidelines above.

Degradation is enjoyed by many M/s couples and i am not about to say it is wrong, however, if it is constant then it is damaging. As enjoyable as it may be at times, constant put downs and/or, insults will eventually make the one on the receiving end really start to believe it and that again is mentally damaging. Reassurance, affection and comforting words need to be a part of the relationship also.

Hurt not Harm, a self-explanatory statement i think but one that is often over looked. Yes it is ok for your Master to hurt you (obviously within reason/limits) but it isn't acceptable for Him to harm you. Accidents do happen and should your Master harm you he should show remorse not just brush it off. If you find yourself regularly harmed, then it's time to review the relationship because something isn't right. Harm can be long-term damage, broken bones, wounds (unless knife play is agreed) and not forgetting mental harm, that's just as, if not more, important than physical harm.

After Care, do you get it? Do you get a reassuring hug and comforting words after a scene? Assurance that you have pleased your Master when you have? After care isn't, as far as i am concerned, very much to do with the physical side, yes you may need some soothing cream rubbed on your butt after say a session with the cane, but it is more again to do with the mental side. In scene you may well have been degraded, humiliated, treated as a 'nothing', but afterwards you need and should receive appropriate care. First off you should be gently lifted back out of sub space if your mind has slipped into it and secondly you need to be put back together mentally. You need to be returned from the object, slut or whatever you have just been, back to being either a person or a treasured possession, depending up on the relationship. You need to feel safe and cared for. It is not just the Dom/me that should be left happy and contented after a scene. If you are left feeling empty after a scene then something is wrong. Lack of correct after care is damaging and will eventually start to cause you problems.

The above are just a few idea's for you to consider, however if something doesn't feel right then chances are it isn't and should be at least considered and discussed with someone other than your Master.

Just because your nature is submissive that by no means gives anyone the right to abuse you. Don't ever be fooled into thinking that you shouldn't complain about anything, nor that you have no rights. Admittedly within a safe, sane and consensual M/s relationship you may not have any rights, but the moment the relationship ceases to be safe, sane or consensual you have just as many rights as anyone else does and you should use them. Saying "No" to your Master may not seem possible and i know that saying "No" to my Master would cost me, however that doesn't mean though that i wouldn't say no or possibly worse if he instructed me to do something that would endanger me mentally or physically (which for the record i know for certain he wouldn't).

Becoming aware that you are in an abusive relationship isn't easy. By the time i realized it, i had no strength left mentally or physically to get out and i had no choice, so i thought, but to endure it for longer. In all that relationship destroyed me and only now, several years later, am i starting to be rebuilt.

Listen to friends, if they have reasons for concern then pay attention, especially to those friends that are within the M/s lifestyle.

Once (if) you do realize that you are being abused just how do you get out?

Hopefully you will not have been drawn in too far or damaged enough to believe you have no choice and. You must ask for and hopefully be honored your release. But i know it isn't always that simple....

Should you ask for release and it is refused pending time to think followed by discussion. Make it clear that you have indeed thought long and hard about it and have nothing you wish to discuss. The refusal can often mean "Give me time to think of a way to talk you round to staying". If your release is still refused release yourself! Get out and stay out. Cease all contact and seek further help if you are pestered by him. Sounds easy, but it isn't especially if you have been sucked in or have had your self-esteem destroyed.

I cannot offer a quick fix it plan, all i can do is say that there is no shame in asking for help and that no matter what, it isn't your fault! Never be made to believe that.

Getting out alone is not advisable, especially if you don't feel you have the strength. It is important that you seek help from friends, family, and professionals, anyone that will listen and help.

If i can help just one person, save them going through what i did or worse then i will be happy. If you wish to talk more to me personally regarding this subject feel free to contact me.

(in reply to Schatzlein)

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RE: Doms/Masters who were actually abusers - 6/15/2010 6:01:15 PM

Ravenhall

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IMO, anyone who cannot control themselves is not truly dominant. I believe that mastering yourself is the first step towards dominance, and all authority ultimately derives from conquering your lower self.
A lack of self-control should be your first warning sign that someone could be an abuser in dominant clothing, or at least a rank amateur.

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