quote:

The person making the claim should be the one to provide the supporting evidence. To tell others that it is up to them to research supporting evidence for your claim is illogical.

If I were to post that there is an uncontrolled oil spill in the gulf of mexico would you demand I document it or would you be capable of doing that on your own?

But I had a litle bit of time on my hands so I googled and googled and could find not one article that supported your claim that doctors and nurses are the #1 abusers of opiates.

Less than fifty minutes seperate the two posts. Perhaps your concept of a little research is different than mine.

There was a Harvard psychiatry study that suggested that physicians are far less likely to abuse illicit drugs.


Why would a doctor or other health care professional use illicit drugs when they have access to pharmaceutical?
This is what I mean when I suggest that you are not entering into this discussion as an adult but rather as a snarky way to find something ....anything you can claim I was wrong about.



But that they are 5 times as likely to abuse prescription drugs. Since the study did not elaborate on what drugs these were, it would be irresponsible to assume they were in fact opiates.

So you would not want to be irresponsible and assume that they would steal drugs that could be obtained legally....more of your puerile nonsense.

Therefore it would be also irrisponsible to claim that doctors and nurses comprise the largest group of opiate abusers.

You want to win this then you can go do the happy dance and tell eveyone how slick you are. I can tell you an easy way. Just point out that there are more than three hundred million people in the u.s. and that about one and a half percent of them have admitted to having used opiats. Since there are less than about a million doctors and nurses in the u.s. it would be reasonable to assume that more than half of the doctors and nurses are not abusing opiats.
Now do you want to hang your hat on that or would you consider your own research which indicates that percentage wise doctors not including nurses and other health care professionals abuse perscription drugs at a rate five times higher than the general population?
Your answer here will tell you whether you are interested in snark or discussion.

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ORIGINAL: Louve00

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: Louve00

You or anyone else may chide me for what I say but I have no need to defend myself against something I did not say.

I am not chiding you.  I am simply not going to play a word game with you.  I stated my opinions on giving a drug addict drugs to soothe his habit and you wondered why I said that.  I said that because I don't believe making 2 wrongs is a right.  You said that was a moral judgement on my part.  Maybeso.  I am morally against giving it for the reasons I said.  Two wrongs do not make a right and it is wrong to contribute to the habit of a drug user. 

Nobody is asking you (at least I am not asking you to defend yourself against something you did not say).  In fact, I have very little of a clue what you are really trying to say.  Are you for giving heroin to a heroin addict, or arent you?  You seem to want to criticize people who are against feeding into their habit.  Without solidly giving your stance, your want to criticize that does lead me to believe you may be for it.  But unless you say more than "What we're doing now isn't working", than I have no idea what you mean.  I can only guess going by your reactions to what people say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gman992

That's because it kills all those people who overdoes on it...fine by me...less losers in the world to take care...and crack/cocaine not addictive? 


Your ignorance is underwhelming. Go look in the pdr and it will tell you that there is no ld 50 for heroin or cocaine.
It will tell you that heroin is physically addictive.
It will tell you that cocaine is not physically addictive.


Tell that to all of those people who lost their fortunes, homes, wives, husbands, etc...that it isn't addictive...no doubt the person who wrote that article was high....

High or not they obviously know more about drugs and drug addiction than you.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx


My position is quite clear and is posted in unambiguous language.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Even with pure Heroin administered regularly the conditions below can and do develop.

Chronic users may develop collapsed veins, infection of the heart lining and valves, abscesses, cellulites, and liver disease. Pulmonary complications, including various types of pneumonia, may result from the poor health condition of the abuser, as well as from heroin's depressing effects on respiration .With regular heroin use, tolerance develops. This means the abuser must use more heroin to achieve the same intensity or effect.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: Louve00

 

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx


My position is quite clear and is posted in unambiguous language.

Since the only position (not criticism or argument that was on a side tangent) I have heard you say was "What we're doing now isn't working"...in fact, when I paste what you actually it said was..."I am in favor of pragmatic sanctions that work. What we are doing now clearly is not working." That gives me NO position.  Only an opinion without a solution.  Its not even a remark about the OP.

As I said, I'm not into playing word games with you.  I haven't a clue where you stand.  All I know is who you're choosing to criticize.

I am sorry for any confusion...I have posted this rant several dozen times and I had thought it was pretty well known by now.
I believe that all drugs should be made legal and who ever wants to stuff peanut butter or anything else into a number two syringe and slam chunky into their carotid artery should be allowed to do so.
I believe that those who do drugs will not stop because it is illegal and I believe that those who do not do drugs will not start because they are legal.
I believe that parents should raise their own children. Responsible parents do not let their children get drunk or engage in life threatning activity. That there are irresponsible parents is obvious and cps usually but not always have ways to deal with those fools. Making drugs illegal does only one thing...it employs the marginally employable... cops,prosecutors,defense attourneys, judges,bailiffs and correctional personal as well as the contractors and builders of prisons.
Something like 70% of the people in custody in this country are in custody on drug related charges. Just imagine if that load was reduced by 70% then we would have more cops to protect us from real criminals, and more prison space to lock the real criminals up. Do you believe that the civil calender would not be shortened if the criminal docket was not swamped with drug offenders?
end of rant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

1. Crack is NOT the "purest form of cocaine" - crack cocaine is made by combining cocaine with baking soda. Which means no matter how pure the cocaine was to start off with, it's going to by default be LESS pure when base is added. Fucking duh l2chemistry.

Had you ever taken "fucking duh chemistry" you would not say such ignorant things. Do a little research.
Crack cocaine and free base are the same product arrived at by different processes and that process extracts all of the cut from the powder cocaine and changes it to a smokable form. Powder cocaine is not smokable...well you can but it is a waste of coke. Google is your friend here do a little research.



2. Saying doctors and nurses are the most addicted to opiates, even if that's true, doesn't contradict the fact that for heroin users, they usually spend more on heroin than anything else.


I did not say they didnt...my point was that health care professionals use opiats at a much higher rate than the general population, and they do not resort to sticking up the corner gas station to make a fix.

The category "opiates" includes things like vicodin, codeine (legal to buy OTC in many countries), oxy, morphine, methadone, suboxone, etc. Heroin is a specific opiate. It's like if I said "chihuahuas are small" and you replied "no, most dogs are big." Even if it's true it's utterly irrelevant.



??????????????

3. I think all drugs should be legal,

Me too


I don't think they should be free.

Legal opiats are a fraction of a single digit percentage of the cost of illicit opiats


If people want to do dumbass things to their body let them - there are enough userpics here of people strung up, bruised, and wearing 100 needles in a decorative pattern in their skin to make me wonder why anyone on this site would want to restrict someone from doing dumbass shit to their body because they enjoy it.

I do not find it difficult at all to agree with you on this point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Had you ever taken "fucking duh chemistry" you would not say such ignorant things. Do a little research.
Crack cocaine and free base are the same product arrived at by different processes and that process extracts all of the cut from the powder cocaine and changes it to a smokable form. Powder cocaine is not smokable...well you can but it is a waste of coke. Google is your friend here do a little research.

quote:

I did not say they didnt...my point was that health care professionals use opiats at a much higher rate than the general population, and they do not resort to sticking up the corner gas station to make a fix.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Good idea. A generation lost, with the drugs supplied by the government. What do you do with all of the addicts once they are hooked on heroine ?

Perhaps if you were to educate yourself about the subject before you ran off at the mouth, about that of which you have no clue, you might make some meaningful contribution to this discussion.

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ORIGINAL: Aynne88

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Good idea. A generation lost, with the drugs supplied by the government. What do you do with all of the addicts once they are hooked on heroine ?

Perhaps if you were to educate yourself about the subject before you ran off at the mouth, about that of which you have no clue, you might make some meaningful contribution to this discussion.

Cocaine is *not* physically addictive.

http://www.erowid.org/