RE: Helen Thomas (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/8/2010 1:47:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

trim trim trim
your quotes quotes quotes
or into your box
come gold edged notes

I'm sure something better could have been created, though that works better for me given that an edit rather than a rewrite is our aim.

E

Still falls under scansion. Here--

trim trim trim
your quotes quotes quotes
or box box box
gets gold edged notes.

I'm still not calling the publishers, though....

[:D]




thompsonx -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/8/2010 2:00:13 PM)

If you have the link to the pew paper itself handy I would like to peruse it...if not I can dig it out with a little time.
One of the responses to the article on the site you linked me to pointed out that the increase in the islamic constitutancy in the countries cited has grown at the approximate rate of the increase in anti-israelie/anti-u.s. feelings in those countries.
You are right this pearl of knowledge is burried in the mud slinging of the pig pen of the elections now underway.
I do think it is important to distinguish between anti-semitism and anti-israelie/anti-u.s. but of course there are those who see no difference between one and the other and find it convenient to piggyback the offensive with the rational for the futherence of their own agenda.




thompsonx -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/8/2010 2:08:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I would say that her comment turned hateful when she said they should return to Poland and Germany where millions of Jews and others were murdered in gas chambers...



Is that something that is still going on?


Is slavery still going on? Would "send the blacks back to Africa" be approrpriate for a WH correspondent?


Why would you try to insert this mindless puerile nonsense into this discussion?
Blacks were kidnapped from africa and brought here against their will and forced into slavery.
The jews migrated to israel, a country that was created by Britain to deal with the results of a moroninc genocidal concept.
How are the two related? Or is this an attempt to obscure the question?
Please try to stay on topic.





thompsonx -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/8/2010 2:15:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Are you aware of how the israelie state was created?
What percentage of the israelie state are not jews?



If that was addressed to me, yes, Im quite sure I know a helluva lot more about Israel than you do.


Very astute of you to notice that this was addressed to you.
Your name being at the bottom right cornor of the post is such a tricky thing to decipher.
Your failure to actually answer the questions posed would imply that you are either unwilling or unable to answer.
Which would perhaps indicate that you do not know as much as you would like to think you do.




thompsonx -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/8/2010 2:20:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I did not hear him express any disagreement or disbelief in the holocast.


Selective listening. He's said it very clearly several times.



You may be on to something.
Perhaps you could bring up a transcript from the 60 minutes interview.
I could have heard it wrong or it is even possible that you may have heard it wrong.
In either case it would be interesting to actually read the transcript that you say he says the holocast did not happen.
You see the premis of his wanting the israelies to leave is based on the fact that the holocast happened in europe and not in palestine.]





FatDomDaddy -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/8/2010 7:14:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Are you aware of how the israelie state was created?
What percentage of the israelie state are not jews?



Why am I not surprised?




thompsonx -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/8/2010 7:24:14 PM)

quote:

:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Are you aware of how the israelie state was created?
What percentage of the israelie state are not jews?



quote:

Why am I not surprised?


At what




Silence8 -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/8/2010 8:51:35 PM)

This is all blatant misdirection. You'd be a fool to buy it.




vincentML -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 6:55:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

If you have the link to the pew paper itself handy I would like to peruse it...if not I can dig it out with a little time.
One of the responses to the article on the site you linked me to pointed out that the increase in the islamic constitutancy in the countries cited has grown at the approximate rate of the increase in anti-israelie/anti-u.s. feelings in those countries.
You are right this pearl of knowledge is burried in the mud slinging of the pig pen of the elections now underway.
I do think it is important to distinguish between anti-semitism and anti-israelie/anti-u.s. but of course there are those who see no difference between one and the other and find it convenient to piggyback the offensive with the rational for the futherence of their own agenda.



I think you are quite competent and capable of finding the reference, tx.

I would be interested to have your thoughts on why being anti-israel is different from being anitsemetic given that the establishment of Israel came out of a call to return to Zion from the diaspora. Isn't the attempt to push the Israelites back into the Sea an attempt to keep the Jews scattered throughout the Nations?




DomYngBlk -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 7:04:09 AM)

I guess my question then would be - do American Jews feel more loyalty to the state of Israel than to the USA




rulemylife -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 8:13:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

I guess my question then would be - do American Jews feel more loyalty to the state of Israel than to the USA


And how would this make a difference?




rulemylife -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 8:16:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I would say that her comment turned hateful when she said they should return to Poland and Germany where millions of Jews and others were murdered in gas chambers...


And she also said America.

Did I miss the news about the New Jersey gas chambers?




rulemylife -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 8:19:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I was looking around in Youtube and this one is for Helen Thomas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtKsaB5xgxI&feature=topvideos


Maybe you should spend less time on You Tube and less time time listening to Howie Carr and actually try to learn something from credible sources.




vincentML -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 9:33:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

I guess my question then would be - do American Jews feel more loyalty to the state of Israel than to the USA


There seems to be some mixture of sympathies among those in my small circle of nine or so. Some have relatives there. Some have visited. I have not heard any say that the claim for a homeland is not valid. There is some misgivings and mistrust of Obama. In the larger circle that surrounds us I see from signs posted by various organizations on bulletin boards there is a great deal of support for the safety and survival of Israel. The behavior of Israel politicians is not beyond reproach. The war with Hezbollah was criticized; the recent boarding of the ship defended.

Some are Holocaust survivors or their children, but for the most part these are pretty liberal and secular Jews. They are elderly. Not likely to migrate but are in touch with younger generations who have migrated.

The short answer to your question is No, they are not more loyal to Israel than to the US, but their feelings are emotionally ambiguous. They are much more sensitive to the Shoah than I am.

On the other hand, Israeli-American lobbying seems to be a pretty effective force in this country and US politicians are measured by their attitudes toward Israel. Kinda complicated I think. Hope that helps.




DomYngBlk -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 9:51:34 AM)

I guess it is just an attachment that I don't feel. Not right or wrong but American Jews do leave themselves open to that sort of attack. Is it true to say that the State of Isreal and being Jewish are one in the same?




popeye1250 -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 10:29:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I was looking around in Youtube and this one is for Helen Thomas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtKsaB5xgxI&feature=topvideos


Maybe you should spend less time on You Tube and less time time listening to Howie Carr and actually try to learn something from credible sources.




Like Helen Thomas? OOps! Can't do that anymore, can we?




vincentML -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 11:55:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

I guess it is just an attachment that I don't feel. Not right or wrong but American Jews do leave themselves open to that sort of attack. Is it true to say that the State of Isreal and being Jewish are one in the same?


The Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed cerca 70 ce by the Romans. The Judaic Jews and the Christian Jews went into a diaspora after that. The Judaic Jews have been persecuted wherever they settled. Well, with some exceptions. Notably, among Islamic nations. They were certainly persecuted by the Christian nations of Europe. And the question of their loyalty was often a fabricated excuse.

That's an old game of blaming the victim. Can Jews be loyal to ______ (fill in the blank with the name of your country?)

The same question was asked by the Know Nothings of Catholics (Papists) in America of the 19th Century. And of John F Kennedy in 1960. Could he be a loyal president of the United States and not take orders from the Pope. Fucks sake!

What does it mean to be Catholic Christian? Do you have an allegience to the Vatican above your home nation?

What does it mean to be Judaic? Do you have an allegience to Jerusalem above your home nation?

The question itself is pernicious. It led in the past to the internment of Japanese-Americans. I don't think it is a question that hyphenated Americans can indulge.

The answer to your second question is: No, the State of Israel and being Jewish are not one and the same. No more than being the descendant of African slaves in South Carolina or Brazil the same as being African.





LadyEllen -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 12:18:36 PM)

I perceive something of a problem with that though V - in that it seems to me, and it might be just my impression, that these comments by Helen Thomas were so readily flavoured by many observers and accepted equally by others as being derived from a bias arising from her own ethnic heritage in a country neighbouring Israel that it should be incredible to think that the same bias should not be present in at least some of Jewish religion in the US, and perhaps even to the extent that any criticism of Israel - and here we may discount Ms Thomas' comments as being a particularly vicious example unsuited to the point - is jumped on and used as far as possible to label the commentator as anti-Semitic.

It cannot be that some US citizens are ascribed bias whilst others may escape such a charge, dependent on which notional foreign loyalty may be ascribed to them. This is itself should raise questions as to the interests of Jewish citizens which are far from helpful either in resisting the ridiculous anti-Semitism that is found from time to time, or in any sensible and reasonable discussion of Israeli policy whether one might support or condemn that policy in whole or in part.

I would argue that such bias, and even divided loyalties in some instances, should be acknowledged as a factor but not necessarily proposed to be - except in instances of demonstrable treason - cause for concern in particular when I would hope we all should wish to hold a sensible and reasonable debate towards the resolution of foreign policy issues and most especially that concerning the Palestinians and Israelis. This will prove impossible if, notwithstanding the prejudices that exist, one man contributing may be disregarded on account of his background without consideration of his contribution whilst the other may be acknowledged and his contribution valued for the same reason and that reason not only overlooked but suppressed.

E




rulemylife -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 12:46:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

I guess it is just an attachment that I don't feel. Not right or wrong but American Jews do leave themselves open to that sort of attack. Is it true to say that the State of Isreal and being Jewish are one in the same?


I can't speak for those who are Jewish but I would say no.




rulemylife -> RE: Helen Thomas (6/9/2010 12:53:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


Like Helen Thomas? OOps! Can't do that anymore, can we?


No Popeye we can't, because apparently when someone offers an alternative opinion to the status quo they find their opinions discounted.

But wait...........aren't you the one who keeps telling us how we need to to reject those status quo opinions?




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