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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 5:53:28 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

I think we (the US) might only be runner-up for The Most Racist Country award. Various places in Africa come to mind where they slaughter each other with machetes on a regular basis. South Africa also comes to mind - Aparthied hasn't been gone all that long.

Not excusing our mess, but I don't think we even crack the top 10.

~Dave


Most racist?

I dis-agree.

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 5:54:10 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I have said it before and will say it again...the US is a racist country....this does not surprise me in the least...disapoint me? Yes, but not surprise me.


You're correct, but the US is also a very tolerant country.  Suffice it to say that it has a wide range of diversity, including racists themselves.


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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 5:59:18 PM   
LadyCimarron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I have said it before and will say it again...the US is a racist country....this does not surprise me in the least...disapoint me? Yes, but not surprise me.


You're correct, but the US is also a very tolerant country.  Suffice it to say that it has a wide range of diversity, including racists themselves.



I agree with you Steven. Part of the beauty of living in this country is that we have so many freedoms. One of which is to love whomever or hate whomever we choose. Morally wrong, legally right. As annoying as racists might be, they are evidence that we live in a free society. I personally wouldn't have it any other way.

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 6:00:35 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		Quote about racism: "I know there are some people who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!" - Tom Lehrer

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 6:02:00 PM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

I agree with you Steven. Part of the beauty of living in this country is that we have so many freedoms. One of which is to love whomever or hate whomever we choose. Morally wrong, legally right. As annoying as racists might be, they are evidence that we live in a free society. I personally wouldn't have it any other way.


This, exactly. Started to say something more in response, then realized that I don't think it can *be* said any better.

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 6:05:09 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

I agree with you Steven. Part of the beauty of living in this country is that we have so many freedoms. One of which is to love whomever or hate whomever we choose. Morally wrong, legally right. As annoying as racists might be, they are evidence that we live in a free society. I personally wouldn't have it any other way.


Yes, I agree. And if you get sick of things down south, you can always move up here. I think you would make an awesome addition to our neighborhood and then I could look forward to seeing you jog by my house every morning.

Oh and I love the Q quote.


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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 6:06:54 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


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A Tom Lehrer quote! Rock on!

~Dave

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 7:33:25 PM   
FirmhandKY


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I don't know any more about this incident that what I read in the OP link, and an article from an Arizona paper that was in the OP's link.

However, based on the past history of manufactured "incidents" that fit a political agenda, and what the newspaper article says, I'm not inclined to believe racism is at play, in the way that is being discussed in this thread, or in the OP's article.

Some quotes from the newspaper:

The project's leader says he was ordered to lighten the skin tone after complaints about the children's ethnicity. But the school's principal says the request was only to fix shading and had nothing to do with political pressure.

Lane said that he received only three complaints about the mural and that his request for a touch-up had nothing to do with political pressure. "We asked them to fix the shading on the children's faces," he said. "We were looking at it from an artistic view. Nothing at all to do with race."

Who are these "artists"?  Which kids where present when "racial epithets" were hurled?  Why no comment from the parents of one of these children?

The timing of this incident is pretty convenient for those who wish to paint Arizona as racist, with the immigration debate now going on there.

As for the councilman, and his comments, I don't know anything about him, either.  The article says:
City Councilman Steve Blair spearheaded a public campaign on his talk show at Prescott radio station KYCA-AM (1490) to remove the mural.

In a broadcast last month, according to the Daily Courier in Prescott, Blair mistakenly complained that the most prominent child in the painting is African-American, saying: "To depict the biggest picture on the building as a Black person, I would have to ask the question: Why?"
I think Blair is an idiot, who certainly didn't do himself any good, but I'd like to know the timing of Blair's comments (bringing a lot of attention to the mural), and when the artist decided to "go public" with "all the racial epithets" that they received.

Just seems suspicious to me.

Firm


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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 7:43:14 PM   
Lucienne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

The article made me shake my head in disbelief but what really gave me a wtf moment was the ad just to the right of it inviting people to join the KKK. Seriously what were they thinking accepting that ad unless of course their indignation is false.......


That's not an ad. It's the picture accompanying the post.

this has been my own personal wtf moment that you needed to have this explained.

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 8:11:41 PM   
Arpig


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OK, perhaps I need to try clarify my earlier posts. First off I guess I am misusing the word "racist"...I am using it in the context that in America one's race is far more important than elsewhere. You claim to be a melting pot, but a black is always a black and a hispanic is always a hispanic...they never get to just be Americans...when I do my surveys in the states and get to the race question (which is there in 95% of the US surveys we do) the only people who answer "American" are whites...to them white is American...the others are just that.."others". I do not mean to imply that they feel these "others are inferior (i really have no basis to make such a determination) , but is clear they don't really consider them real Americans.

Every election in the US swirls around the "black vote" or the "arab vote"...your politicians obsess over the racial breakdown of the electorate in a way that seems utterly bizarre to the average Canadian, but even here on these boards the American posters will discuss various issues along racial lines without really realising it. Perhaps I should not use the word racist because it has such unfavourable overtones of bigotry, so rather than Racist, I guess I should say that the US is...Racialist??? I don't think that's a word but I can't think of a non-perjorative word to imply a non-bigoted fixation on the colour of one's skin so it will have to do.

I wish to appologise to any of the Americans on here who read my post as painting them all as bigots, that was not my intent at all.

As to why I am disappointed, well as I have said in other posts, most Americans just have no fucking clue what America represents to the rest of the world, and if you did then you would understand why incidents like this are so disheartening.


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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 8:27:23 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		No need for an apology, Arpig, I didn't think you literally meant everyone, and you try to be fair-minded.

One last thing, though; a lot of the use of racial categories like "hispanic", etc, is by their own groups. Many whites would like that to stop, and for their to be more of an emphasis on just being American. Nothing wrong with caring about one's heritage, but put first things first, in my opinion.

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 8:31:19 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Thanks Level...lord knows we have our own racist bastards up here...Ernst Zundel comes to mind...

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 9:28:14 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		http://www.reappropriate.com/2010/06/05/prescott-mural-controversy-followu/

You can hear a radio interview with Blair at the link above.

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 9:29:07 PM   
ModTwentyOne


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Status: offline 		Let's keep the discussion to the topic of the OP.  Feel free to refresh your memory if you cannot recall the topic.

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 9:32:05 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Could it be they answer "American" because the person asking the questions does not sound "American" to them?

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 9:45:12 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		http://www.kpho.com/video/23801134/index.html

Includes footage of the artist, the mural and Councilman Blair. Principal Lane had no comment.

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it's never enough to keep up.

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 11:01:58 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

You claim to be a melting pot, but a black is always a black and a hispanic is always a hispanic...they never get to just be Americans...when I do my surveys in the states and get to the race question (which is there in 95% of the US surveys we do) the only people who answer "American" are whites...to them white is American...the others are just that.."others". I do not mean to imply that they feel these "others are inferior (i really have no basis to make such a determination) , but is clear they don't really consider them real Americans.


I've never seen a survey that offered the option of "American". It's always a racial breakdown - Caucasian being the "white" option.

This, of course, only serves to further strengthen your point.

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/5/2010 11:27:53 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

http://www.kpho.com/video/23801134/index.html

Includes footage of the artist, the mural and Councilman Blair. Principal Lane had no comment.


Thanks, dc.

Nothing about racial epithets yelled at the artists while kids were present.

Nothing to make me change the conclusions I posted before.

Everyone claims there was no political pressure to change anything, but the artist doesn't believe it: he claims political interference to his artwork.

Must be nice to be the "good guy" in the center of a controversy likes this.  I bet he gets more work out of it. Already on the way to becoming famous as a crusader against racial injustice.  I wonder what his speaking fees will be next year?

Firm


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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/6/2010 4:15:40 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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Status: offline 		I think that is very overt racism, though I think that racism is inherent in most countries but in a way far less easy to cite in an article

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RE: This is what actual racism looks like - 6/6/2010 4:54:55 AM   
Termyn8or


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If this thread proves anything at all, it is Airpig's assertation(s). Just when the Nword debate is finally dying down, now we are going to debate a mural. So some idiots said there weren't enough White kids in that particular piece of art ? Are you kidding me ? In fact are those idiots kidding me ?

I look at a picture and let's say there are all Black people in it. Why in the fucking hell would I take offense at that ? Are people that visually fixated now ? I guess so.

"A few years later I got a job in the payroll office of a company. I found out that I and every other black woman there was paid at a lower salary than the white women there. This was regardless of experience or education. "

LadyC, did you do something about that ? There are laws in place and if it can be proven, if you start now you could get these folks who have been wronged one hell of a Christmas (or Kwanzaa) bonus. Discrimination in pay is by far one of the worst things happening in the world, no matter who is involved. Paying people less because they are seemingly more desparate for a job, paying a guy more because he has more kids, it is all wrong and rotten to the core. You work for someone, therefore you are a ploletarian, at the very least your pay level should be based solely on your performance and qualifications. Anything other than that is well, pretty much what constitutes 80% of the world's problems. This is a very serious issue IMO.

And never forget Emmet Hill. What happened to him used to be considered a joke, but now is a "black" eye for every White person in this country. This shit cost him his life, for no good reason.

Maybe we have come a long way, I mean lynchings aren't all that common anymore, but just like anything else, you'll never know people's true motives without examining their actions in detail. As long as the motivation exists, this will happen one way or another. One poster on this board who decided I was a racist or possibly a bigot claimed that things will not be right until every last Man like me is dead. Maybe that is the only way.

Just like I refuse to choose battles with people who are indoctrinated or brainwashed about certain subjects, perhaps this battle is equally as futile.

But,  if we were to discriminate against racists, just what are WE doing then ?

Food for thought, bon appetite.

T

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
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