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RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 4:31:26 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

You seem to not understand that as slaves or submissive's we tend to submit to both the good and the bad.

Im a masochist, In fact with out a at least a good amount of pain i feel odd and out of place and well frankly not alive.

I seek out sadistic or at least men who can be in part sadistic, to fulfill the need to wanting pain in my life.

I submit when i find a worthy partner, for the good the bad, and everything else.

My submission is never and never will be subjective to only the good times in life, or otherwise my submission wouldnt really amount to much..

As such i submit to the pain some times heavier then i prefer because it makes my partner happy, It fulfills us both in a way you cant seem to understand. Id go through heaven and hell for the right Dom no matter what its effects or possible damage to myself, because as the "right" dom Ive offered him my life in exchange for the fulfillment he offers.

Im not delusional, Im not insane, and I dont put myself in to abusive situations. I just know how my mind works and nothing makes me happier then a hand over warmed flesh and that purring softness of thats my good girl, youve made me so proud....

I'm not talking about sadomasochism. I'm talking about genuine abusive relationships -

for example relationships in which the Dom continually shows disrespect towards the slave, always inflicts bad type of pain on her, neglects her needs, ignores her, damages her emotionally and mentally etc.

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)

Post #: 41

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 4:33:43 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

Do you honestly believe such people dont exist?

Of course they do exist, there are many attention seekers out there, and there are many who want to gain sympathy by playing victim.
But you simply can't dismiss all the stories about abuse as attention seeking! This would be very inhumane and cruel. Some people have real issues and problems, we can't dismiss them as attention seekers just like that.

12 years in the lifestyle. Not as long as some, but longer than most. An RN who worked in L&D for many, many years hearing all the true stories about abuse. Its become second nature to pick apart a post made by someone only seeking to gain attention.

I used to be like you, willing to believe they would never say such things. However, time has taught me differently. And some people bank upon people like you to swallow everything they say.

Someone who is genuinely looking for help can be quickly spotted.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 42

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 4:35:18 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

for example relationships in which the Dom continually shows disrespect towards the slave, always inflicts bad type of pain on her, neglects her needs, ignores her, damages her emotionally and mentally etc.

But there are slaves who crave just this kind of relationship. Does that change the charge of abuse?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 43

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 4:40:19 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

But there are slaves who crave just this kind of relationship. Does that change the charge of abuse?

No, this is still abuse even if she craves it. People who really crave abusive relationships should be encouraged to seek some therapy,
because even if they crave it, such relationship will not benefit them, and later they will feel even more broken and miserable.
It is very cruel and maybe even evil that some people take advantage of those who crave abuse.
Craving genuine abuse isn't and can't be healthy. Really, such people should be encouraged to seek some therapy.

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 44

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 4:43:18 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Porcelaine, I would like to ask you something. I noticed that of all the posters here you are usually the first who will always INSIST that the best thing for the slave is to stay in a relationship no matter what, and, IMO, the concept of leaving is totally alien to your understanding of slavery.

I didn't suggest she remain in the relationship at all. But I did say she probably came into it with a heap of issues that contributed to her decision in choosing her mate.

quote:

Why do you insist so strongly that she has to stay and can't leave, no matter what?

I don't like repeating myself. So I won't bother and will simply refer you to the previous statement since this one is redundant.

quote:

And why do you think that it is ALWAYS better to stay than to leave?

It is clear that your understanding of human psychology is minimal at best. Instead of asking why she stays, which is reactionary in many regards. Ask yourself how the heck she got there in the first place. Why didn't she see the warning signs? I'm left to wonder if you've ever been involved with victims of domestic abuse. Because these are the things they ask themselves all the time.

quote:

Why you think that the following relationship will most likely be worse than the present one and not better?

The common denominator in the first and second situation is the girl. If she hasn't learned from her mistake and found the root of its cause then she's apt to repeat it. For someone so intellectually driven it would appear you've spent too much time trying to understand complex ideas and very little on common ones you'll probably encounter.

And with all due respect that's common sense 101.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 45

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 4:43:38 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Some crave being spanked, whipped, nipple torture, humiliation, canings, floggings. These, in your opinion, are sick people who need profesional help?

Some crave being used as a piece of furniture, kept as a pet, placed on a pedastal, ect.

What gives you the right to determine if this is abusive and that they need therapy?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 46

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 4:48:06 PM

zephyroftheNorth

Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline

quote:

Why didn't she see the warning signs?

I suspect that often it's not so much a question of not seeing the warning signs as it is ignoring them. I know that I've certainly been one who has done that, either because I'm hot for the guy or didn't want to admit I'd made yet another bad choice.

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 47

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 4:50:41 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

I suspect that often it's not so much a question of not seeing the warning signs as it is ignoring them. I know that I've certainly been one who has done that, either because I'm hot for the guy or didn't want to admit I'd made yet another bad choice.

Of course but the why didn't I see it question usually comes first. As she sifts she finally realizes she did ignore it and can articulate it much like you have.

Good to see you. :)

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)

Post #: 48

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 4:51:27 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

Porcelaine, with due respect, I think you are a bit of a fatalist. You are always looking towards the past and asking "how she got there" instead of loking into the future and saying "OK, she got there, but this is bad, now she could try to get out.

You think that it is impossible to correct mistakes you once made and you think it is impossible to solve some issues.

What do you think why do safe houses exist at all? Why are there psychologists and social workers?
Do you think that no one should ever ask for help?

Once she leaves an abusive relationship she can seek some therapy that will teach her to correct her mistakes from the past and to enter a better, more fulfilling relationship.

Try to focus on the future and not only on the past.
Latins had a saying "Omnia que ventura sunt in incerto iacent." All that is going to happen is undecided. Open to change. Uncertain.
Mistakes can and should be corrected.

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 49

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 4:54:28 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

Some crave being spanked, whipped, nipple torture, humiliation, canings, floggings. These, in your opinion, are sick people who need profesional help?

Some crave being used as a piece of furniture, kept as a pet, placed on a pedastal, ect.

They are not sick.

This is very common in BDSM.

You know who is sick, sick is the one who wants to be ignored, disregarded, punished in the ways she doesn't like to be, neglected, harmed permanently, destroyed, etc...
these people are sick, and not those whom you mentioned.

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 6/6/2010 4:55:46 PM >

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 50

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 4:55:31 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Here is what i dont like about your belief, SN.

These women, in your opinion, are abused. They either stay in their delusions or they leave and seek professional help. Relationships just arent that black and white.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 51

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 5:00:06 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

Some crave being spanked, whipped, nipple torture, humiliation, canings, floggings. These, in your opinion, are sick people who need profesional help?

Some crave being used as a piece of furniture, kept as a pet, placed on a pedastal, ect.

They are not sick.

This is very common in BDSM.

You know who is sick, sick is the one who wants to be ignored, disregarded, punished in the ways she doesn't like to be, neglected, harmed permanently, destroyed, etc...
these people are sick, and not those whom you mentioned.

This is what you posted.

quote:

even if there was no official contract, there is always unwritten rule that says "All the parties in the relationship
will not do anything that can permanently harm or damage the other party or the relationship itself"

Who are you to make this judgement based upon a relationship you are not a party too?

This would not be a relationship i would desire. But i certainly would not judge a woman sick and twisted for wanting such a relationship. I consider scars left froma whip ad permanent damage. Dont know too many people who wouldnt. I have seen women with hooks inbedded into their skin to support a dress... is that abusive? Its certainly permanent damage to the flesh. I have seen women get branded... again.. permanent damage. But is it abusive?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 52

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 5:04:52 PM

zephyroftheNorth

Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

I suspect that often it's not so much a question of not seeing the warning signs as it is ignoring them. I know that I've certainly been one who has done that, either because I'm hot for the guy or didn't want to admit I'd made yet another bad choice.

Of course but the why didn't I see it question usually comes first. As she sifts she finally realizes she did ignore it and can articulate it much like you have.

Good to see you. :)

~porcelaine

True 'nuff porcelaine.

good to see you too, love ya!

zeph

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 53

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 5:09:02 PM

zephyroftheNorth

Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline

quote:

<snip>punished in the ways she doesn't like to be<snip>

SN, she isn't supposed to enjoy punishment, that's why it's punishment. If she's enjoying it, it's hardly going to work as punishment is it?

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 54

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 5:09:55 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

This would not be a relationship i would desire. But i certainly would not judge a woman sick and twisted for wanting such a relationship. I consider scars left froma whip ad permanent damage. Dont know too many people who wouldnt. I have seen women with hooks inbedded into their skin to support a dress... is that abusive? Its certainly permanent damage to the flesh. I have seen women get branded... again.. permanent damage. But is it abusive?

Scars, branding, etc is not abuse. This can even be done for fashion reasons and isn't much different from tattoos.

Real permanent damage is: dysfunction of internal organs because of prolonged starvation, post traumatic stress disorder due to intimidation and continual psychological abuse, addiction and brain damage due to forced taking of drugs, brain damage due to sleep deprivation, damage to psyche due to long lasting sensory deprivation or isolation from the world, breaking of bones, internal bleeding due to beating, infective diseases due to forced sex with infected partners, infections due to unhygienic practices such as eating from the floor or eating shit...

People who seek such things are really sick IMO, and they should seek therapy - because if they are sick today, they can be healthy tomorrow.

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 6/6/2010 5:12:14 PM >

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 55

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 5:15:01 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

<snip>punished in the ways she doesn't like to be<snip>

SN, she isn't supposed to enjoy punishment, that's why it's punishment. If she's enjoying it, it's hardly going to work as punishment is it?

Of course that she isn't supposed to enjoy punishment. But there is acceptable punishment and unacceptable punishment.

Acceptable punishment hurts and is very unpleasant but doesn't cause long term harm.
Unacceptable punishment leaves permanent physical or mental damage.

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 56

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 5:15:04 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Porcelaine, with due respect, I think you are a bit of a fatalist. You are always looking towards the past and asking "how she got there" instead of loking into the future and saying "OK, she got there, but this is bad, now she could try to get out.

I'm curious how you're able to determine what my methodology is when you've never been under my hand. Regardless of what you may or may not think of my methods there's one thing that's true for me. I know myself. Very well in fact. And I take ownership for my junk. I'm not on a pity pot crying about what someone else did. Because win lose or draw I got myself into the fiasco.

I look at the root cause of my failures. Doing so allows me to pinpoint the real problem rather than camouflaging it in a series of self destructive catastrophe's. Or inadvertently taking them out on others or involving them in my self inflicted angst. I consider that part of being a responsible adult. But I digress some feel differently.

quote:

You think that it is impossible to correct mistakes you once made and you think it is impossible to solve some issues.

Quite the contrary. Problem solving is something I enjoy. That's why I seek the root. I'm not into temporary fixes or the band aid approach. I'm thorough and the goal is the eradication of the issue in its entirety.

quote:

What do you think why do safe houses exist at all? Why are there psychologists and social workers? Do you think that no one should ever ask for help?

The agencies and professionals mentioned offer wonderful services for people desiring their assistance. That's the caveat in all of this you're not seeing. She has to want it and be willing to put in the work to get her life in order. From top to bottom. The alternative is pretty grim and unfortunately self-preservation isn't always the driven force for change.

quote:

Once she leaves an abusive relationship she can seek some therapy that will teach her to correct her mistakes from the past and to enter a better, more fulfilling relationship.

Sometimes she doesn't pursue therapy because she knows what's wrong and cannot or will not face it. Again, there's much more involved in this than the things you're putting forth.

quote:

Try to focus on the future and not only on the past. Latins had a saying "Omnia que ventura sunt in incerto iacent." All that is going to happen is undecided. Open to change. Uncertain. Mistakes can and should be corrected.

This is where you and I differ sharply. You posit ideas that you've gleaned from others. Many untested and newly discovered. You speak about things you've never tried. Conflicts you've never wrestled with. A lifestyle that you live within a narrow lens on the Internet. It's a never-ending mathematical equation.

With all the pontifications and judgments made you substantiate them based upon theories and experiences from third parties. Nothing you can claim and call your own. In the strangest of ways you're living your BDSM through all of us instead of discovering it for yourself.

I know, experience, live, and make my own discoveries. Porcelaine solves her own problems. They're not fodder for the forum.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 57

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 5:17:15 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

True 'nuff porcelaine.

good to see you too, love ya!

zeph

Back at you doll. We need to catch up soon! *snugs*

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)

Post #: 58

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 5:19:00 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline

He's not talking a bout things that are fun and enjoyable, and may be slightly hurtful or that might bruise or leave you welted up for a bit. He's talking about people who want someone who'll purposely hurt them, break bones, severely degrade self esteem, treat them in really god awful ways, that's not fun or sexy or healthy or consensual in any other way that she or he is willing to put up with it.

And I agree with him. If you want or crave someone to break your bones, cause internal organ damage, knock your teeth out, damage your ability to see ,or other such stuff he's talking about as abusive, , then perhaps therapy is in order.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Some crave being spanked, whipped, nipple torture, humiliation, canings, floggings. These, in your opinion, are sick people who need profesional help?

Some crave being used as a piece of furniture, kept as a pet, placed on a pedastal, ect.

What gives you the right to determine if this is abusive and that they need therapy?

< Message edited by Toppingfrmbottom -- 6/6/2010 5:25:35 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 59

RE: Slave's delusions - 6/6/2010 5:19:58 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

And it took him 3 pages to finally define what he was talking about with clarity.

~ETA because i miscounted... lol

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/6/2010 5:21:14 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)

Post #: 60

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