RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First?

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naughtynick81 -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/17/2010 11:38:44 PM)
It may be in a general point of view that men's sexuality is seen as objectifying, evil, using. While a women's sexuality upon men is seen as nurturing and a win to men. The point is that men's sexuality may be automatically seen as something negative until proven otherwise. But a man would be accused of missing out on a good opportunity if he is negative towards a woman's approach on sex on first hand. Then we can go on to the women labelled as sluts debate. But men are labelled as pigs, desperate wankers, sleaze bags, and so on. So both have a negative effect in that context

Lockit -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/17/2010 11:39:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: YOU are a raven sexist bigot. Dear Lockit, I'm not sure if these allegations are true but if they are I am going to report you for breaking TOS - this site expressly forbids beastiality and I am sure there are much more appropriate sites that will help you spread your wings. Sincerely, A concerned citizen. LOL... as bad as this is, I am sure... that my being told I fucked rabid wolverines was way worse. What a play on words my dear! Good catch... But it wasn't me! I do wonder who actually said that though! But not curious enough to read this thread to find out! lol

Andalusite -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 8:41:23 AM)
Naughtynick, I realise you didn't actually come out and say that. I was trying to make a point that it is absurd to try to connect the two, just as it would be ridiculous to claim that people who are in LDRs with people in other countries are hypocritical if they complain about outsourcing jobs or H1B Visa workers. As I pointed out, there are lots of ways in which dating is unequal for men and women. Some of them are trending in the other direction, especially for FemDoms and male submissives, such as the man being more likely to be rejected, since there is pressure on him to be the one to ask for a date, and that it's up to the man to decide when the relationship will become more committed at each stage. Other aspects such as women being far more likely to be sexually or physically assaulted or raped are still unfortunately just as true. The solution isn't to make it more likely for men to experience those things, but to make it less likely that women will be attacked. If a woman resents spending money on a man, she is also a cheapskate. I like getting little things for him, or treating him to dinner or whatever at times, as I mentioned before. Laurell, I also disagree with you on the who pays for a date connection to women working. AQSM, the point I was trying to make is that if a man accuses a woman of being a whore for daring to ask him to pay for a cup of coffee, it boils down to saying that she's lower and sluttier than the worst crack whore. That's a really nasty thing to say to anyone, and I would never want to date someone who had such an adversarial and commodified view of relationships. If someone did that to me, I'd leave the table, find the waitstaff or a manager, specifically ask that they keep him away from me, and pay my share of the bill. I'd never speak to them again. I don't see how it is sexist to prefer to trade who pays for a date rather than wanting to divvy up the tab down to the penny. [8\|] By saying that I feel that the man paying is one of many gentlemanly things to do, I don't mean that he isn't a gentleman if he doesn't do any given one of them. Rather, they all make me feel a bit warm and fuzzy and extra-feminine, and I recognise that all of them are linked to traditional gender roles. I like them anyway, and I don't really see anything wrong with that, but I don't feel that I'm being gentlemanly if I hold the door for the man, and I figure he'd probably think it a little odd if I got flowers for him.

PeonForHer -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 8:56:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite I figure he'd probably think it a little odd if I got flowers for him. Depends on the culture. A woman visiting a man in France, so I hear, will sometimes bring flowers. She gives his home an instant 'feminine touch' that way. And there's a neat little trick involved: his first sight of her at the door is of her face next to the flowers. He'll associate the attractiveness of the one with the prettiness of the other. Clever. Re the general subject here - everything goes wrong the moment I even start to think about who's paying what on a date, or in relationship, generally. Grotty.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 8:59:46 AM)
It IS grotty... and honestly, the ONLY time I think of it is the first time!! And I've brought flowers to men who like flowers. Choccies or whatever. Me, I don't like flowers as a gift, but hey! I say thank you to all gifts. [:)]

JhonDean -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 10:41:31 AM)
quote: I like them anyway, and I don't really see anything wrong with that, but I don't feel that I'm being gentlemanly if I hold the door for the man, and I figure he'd probably think it a little odd if I got flowers for him. Contrary to the belief of some it is not at all uncommon for a woman to send flowers or a note expressing her thoughts and feelings during our last date. Neither is it uncommon for a woman to cast off the cloaks of bigotry and self-serving self-righteousness and deeply submerge herself in the passions making up the moment or for weeks after hear those muffled cries echoing in the hallways of her mind. Note I said woman, not an elitist with a whip.

LadyPact -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 10:51:51 AM)
What is with the 'elitist with a whip' comments? You would really have good points at times if you weren't so condescending. *** Breaking the mold again! Last bought flowers for MP 3/23/10. [sm=cheerleader.gif]

Jeffff -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 10:53:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact What is with the 'elitist with a whip' comments? You would really have good points at times if you weren't so condescending. *** Breaking the mold again! Last bought flowers for MP 3/23/10. [sm=cheerleader.gif] I LIKE that... I may add it to my sig line!

MissAsylum -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 11:21:12 AM)
Good God man. Stop trying to trolling the threads to bash female dominants. the only one with an arrogant attitude here is you. You, for not suppressing your opportunist urges to spew your obviously damaged ego at others[8\|]

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 12:48:37 PM)
MisterP likes flowers! Yay!

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 1:31:53 PM)
Lots of guys like flowers. Most men will not directly stand up and say so mostly because they have NEVER received them. Getting flowers made me feel special. It also made me realize how giving flowers should not be due to expectation but rather because one is inspired to give them. The statement that flowers help to associate the individual with natural beauty, well I don't know that the association could be made as a psycological statement but I see the point. More over when I see the flowers I do specifically think of the person who brought them to me. I think the biggest impression that was ever left on me and it still to this day is one I hold many others in comparison to is the one where I was specifically thought of and everything this person did was with purpose and intention. I came over to pick her up she handed me a rose and asked if I minded not doing what I had planned and instead if she could treat me. I was Shocked and Impressed. She got all my favorite things, she could not cook so she went and got them and that was what we ate. Then she treated me to her favorite dessert cause I didn't have a favorite. Then she gave me a Old VHS Copy of my favorite movie, which I had told her on our first date that I loved that movie but could never find it to buy and would love to own it. Well she found it and bought it for me. So I am not saying that women do not do the same things guys do, they do and it has happened to me, however the reason this sparked such a reaction in me is because how out of sorts it was. Never since have I been treated this way, oddly enough I have treated MANY women with this same appreciation and attention to detail, but never since have I had it returned. The Double Standard for Gender is a sadly misguided one. To every woman here, if you have a special male in your life and you have the opportunity show them that you pay attention to them, without having to ask find a perfect Flower, Card, and Trinket and give it to them, if you have been together for 9 days or 9 years and see how he reacts. Then Ask yourself how offten in your life things like this have been done for you and how rarely you have returned this action. Sure, there will be people who comment on this and point out how they did this or that, but you know more offten then not women are treated and rarely return that treat in the same way. Truth is women more offten then not do not return the way they are treated back the same way that men do. I'm not complaining about how I have been treated after doing such things, I happen to rather like being seen like prince charming. But the fact remains only once in my life have I had a woman do for me what I have always done for them. QSM

LadyPact -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 1:55:34 PM)
AQSM, unfortunately there are three topics that hit this particular board that tend to get really ugly reactions. (OK, My perception of such.) 1. Money. 2. Pro Domination 3. Female Supremacy All three have caused some ugly, and I mean really ugly forum equivalent of knock down drag out bar brawls. I'm not casting blame here, either. I was right in there, too. I think that one has to look at the money subject from both angles to try to find where they really stand. We have what I'll go ahead and call 'societal expectations' which aligns with what I think your position is on the matter. Then, we also have the 'power authority scenario' which is more related to how dynamics are set up and how people view that according to gender. This can get very complicated (and heated) because the two can seem to be at such serious odds when it comes to females in charge. Often, it seems that folks have just gotten such an idea that the other person is looking to take advantage of them in some way. Unfortunately, that might be legitimate at times.

LadyNTrainer -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 2:08:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan Lots of guys like flowers. Most men will not directly stand up and say so mostly because they have NEVER received them. Getting flowers made me feel special. It also made me realize how giving flowers should not be due to expectation but rather because one is inspired to give them. The statement that flowers help to associate the individual with natural beauty, well I don't know that the association could be made as a psycological statement but I see the point. More over when I see the flowers I do specifically think of the person who brought them to me. I think the biggest impression that was ever left on me and it still to this day is one I hold many others in comparison to is the one where I was specifically thought of and everything this person did was with purpose and intention. I came over to pick her up she handed me a rose and asked if I minded not doing what I had planned and instead if she could treat me. I was Shocked and Impressed. She got all my favorite things, she could not cook so she went and got them and that was what we ate. Then she treated me to her favorite dessert cause I didn't have a favorite. Then she gave me a Old VHS Copy of my favorite movie, which I had told her on our first date that I loved that movie but could never find it to buy and would love to own it. Well she found it and bought it for me. So I am not saying that women do not do the same things guys do, they do and it has happened to me, however the reason this sparked such a reaction in me is because how out of sorts it was. Never since have I been treated this way, oddly enough I have treated MANY women with this same appreciation and attention to detail, but never since have I had it returned. The Double Standard for Gender is a sadly misguided one. To every woman here, if you have a special male in your life and you have the opportunity show them that you pay attention to them, without having to ask find a perfect Flower, Card, and Trinket and give it to them, if you have been together for 9 days or 9 years and see how he reacts. Then Ask yourself how offten in your life things like this have been done for you and how rarely you have returned this action. Sure, there will be people who comment on this and point out how they did this or that, but you know more offten then not women are treated and rarely return that treat in the same way. Truth is women more offten then not do not return the way they are treated back the same way that men do. I'm not complaining about how I have been treated after doing such things, I happen to rather like being seen like prince charming. But the fact remains only once in my life have I had a woman do for me what I have always done for them. QSM The fucked up thing here is this is pretty much exactly how I treat the men in my life, but I would never be attracted to a man who was angry and bitter about how unfair it is that most women don't treat him that way. I spend the majority of my entertainment budget and disposable income on buying pretty clothes and special things for my boys, or good things for them to eat. I spend far more on their clothing and jewelry than on my own, because what I wear doesn't particularly thrill me, but I like them to look good, and I want them to feel cherished and treasured and special. I also like being taken out to dinner and on dates. It feels good to be cared for in this way and treated as special, as someone worth taking out on a date. Because this is a fun dynamic for me, and because I have professional cooking and nutritionist skills, I normally handle most of the shopping and cooking in, and my boys generally pick up the tab on the rarer occasions when we go out. It's hard to say who spends more; it probably goes back and forth from month to month, because some months we might go out several times and other months not at all. The arrangement has also been reversed for me in the past, when I made a lot more money than my submissive partner and had less time to spend on cooking while he had more. It can be a positive relationship dynamic no matter who pays, and it can feel good on both sides when one person does something nice for the other and they take real pleasure in it. Going Dutch is a good thing to do with friends and casual acquaintances, because it's not romantic and it is more of a distancing dynamic than an intimate or loving one. If someone suggests going Dutch, and I'm interested in him personally at all, I'd much rather pay. I'll probably insist on doing so. But the fact that he suggested it will make me assume that he neither wants to take care of me nor be taken care of, and that he wants to keep some distance between us. He'll probably get what he asked for, and I'll put him on the "just friends" list for the forseeable future. This isn't because I'm a gold digger or expect a man to pay for me. I'm perfectly fine with somebody on a budget who says up front that they can't afford to pay for dinner, and if I'm interested in them I'll certainly offer to take them out and make it clear that I will pay their way and take care of them. That still feels good to me because someone is making the romantic gesture and someone else is accepting it. I go Dutch with my friends, but if there's any possibility of romance in the air, somebody is taking somebody out. If that doesn't happen, then the emotional dynamic for me is that we're just friends.

CynthiaWVirginia -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 2:54:47 PM)
~~~~~~fast reply~~~~~~ <figures out how to use the Hide button, and uses it...twice> There, I've found a way not to get upset. I will say something about old fashioned dating rules... Though the guy had to pay, he chose the place and if he could afford it. Mom told me "the rules" when I was a teenager...to either have the man order something for you, or wait and find out how much he's choosing to spend on his own meal and don't choose something more costly. Not to order anything but water unless he did it first or asked if I wanted it. I was told not to order something like pie unless he asked if I wanted some. If he treated me, then next time I was responsible for inviting him to eat with the family, make a picnic, invite him for a BBQ, or if he's a steady boyfriend, to invite him over to my place and cook (since most expect sex on the first date now, this isn't very safe if she's not inviting him for more than just dinner). There is a primitive part of my soul that tells me...if a man treats me with respect, like I am valuable to him, and that his instincts are to provide...then there's something special about him. He seems more manly, trustworthy, and more in control of his baser instincts. I wonder at a man who would ask a woman out...knowing that the cultural norm for his area is that he's the one to pay for the date...and: 1) He doesn't inform her before the date that they will be going dutch so that she is prepared or if not, has a chance to turn down the date or make drastic changes to it. 2) He knows she doesn't know...and yet he sits back and watches her follow the old rules her mom and grandma gave her, keeping up with him (orders lobster if he does, thinking it's safe, orders drinks when he does) inconsiderately and sadistically waiting for that moment when the check arrives and he tells the waiter or waitress to make that separate checks. He had plenty of time to warn her throughout the meal...yet chose not to. I would seriously worry about his moral character.

LadyCimarron -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 3:05:49 PM)
When you say that men paying is the expectation of women, you fail to take into account cultural and socieoeconomic differences. I live in a culture and community where the women far outnumber the men. Where the women tend to be better off and more financially stable than the men. I know women who actively date and marry men who have no jobs and no means to support them or even contribute to a household. I know more women who are supporting men than I know men supporting women. And sadly I know way too many who have met, "dated" and married men who were in prison the whole time. In my vanilla life when a man asks me out; I know in most instances he can't really afford to take me anywhere. The vast majority of my vanilla dates have taken place at my home watching dvds eating a meal I cooked. I own my own home. I have only dated one man in my own city who owns his own. So your experience is completely different than mine and its foreign to me. And where I live I am not the exception I am the rule.

PeonForHer -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 3:31:19 PM)
FR, I do think we all need to recognise just how complex all this is. We live in an age in which feminism has achieved many, but by no means all, of its aims. The gender roles are changing, but they haven't yet finished changing. It can be a tightrope. It just isn't straightforward, anymore. My policy is to take the path of least resistance: I'll try to pay when she's looking the other way or when she's in the toilet. If she fixes me with a steely glare and says 'we're going dutch' then, OK, we're going dutch. If she brings me any present at all, I am of course utterly bowled over with delight. But in my past few relationships there has, each time, been some sign or another that the woman concerned has definitely not wanted to be 'traditional' in some way. My last could handle my paying for the odd small thing (a coffee, for instance) but she absolutely would not, ever, let me walk her home. Even when she once left my home at 3.00 am. I really would have followed her, had I not known for certain she'd be watching out for me. The old courtesies, what was once considered good manners, is now in a state of flux. Developing a policy on how to deal with it all is quite an art in this day and time. That absolutely applies to the matter of money, too. I do think the essential thing is not to take any matter for granted. All we who fought for liberation (in however small a way) about social attitudes, especially regarding the respective roles of the genders - this is one of the prices we have to pay. We don't get to complain about what 'just is normal and right', anymore.

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 3:56:00 PM)
Okay I want to address each of these because it seems that it is being assumed that I am feeling in a way that I am not feeling. LadyNTrainer = You are assuming I believe that I am Bitter or Angry about this, when in reality I accept it as it is, the societal NORM for America and Europe. I am not Angry or Bitter, I am just willing to discuss the elephant in the living room that most people are uncomfortable discussing. It should also be known that I agree that you personally do behave this way and think it is the way it should be. What I ask you is do you think you are practicing a Typical or an A-Typical behavior for women in general? When you go to a romantic restraunt how many of the males are simply being resiprocative of some other received actions. I.E. How many there are wearing clothes and jewerly that their female counterpart purchased them and therefore picking up the tab because it is fair. In reality I find little as being "Fair" in dating, but I don't find it something to be angry or bitter over just the way it is, What I do get bitter and angry over are people trying to convince me that it isn't true, when to deny what I have said is to be oblivious to the reality of what is arond us every day. But then again it is a Society Based Accepted Normality. I do not want to change the world to do things in a different way I just want people to admit the reality of the practice. CynthisWVirgina = I may be one of the ones you Hid so you may not be able to read this but I do want to point out how much I agree with what you have said here, your first paragraph is something that I believe is the way it was and should continue to be done. It is just responsible and respectful, but we also know that homes aren't run that way. Inviting a man to have dinner at your place is equally as dangerous today as going home with the man, and where as I don't expect to have sex on a first date I am not against the idea either but I usually let the girl make that call. I usually don't start suggesting sex until we have known one another for a month or so. I will talk about it from day 1 but I don't suggest it until after about a month. That being said, number 2 of your situation is part of what some men do get Bitter and Angry about. For me personally I don't play the game you describe I make it clear my intentions on being responsibe for payment clear before we even have a date set. However what bothers some men is that they would go on a date and not know what the deal was. That they would go out and eat a meal and not take responsibility for themselves and find out what the person wants. See this is how the girls in my family were raised. Don't assume, before you order you shoud know if you are expected to pay for a meal or not, but even then I agree with your Grandmothers rules, many women do not do this. I have never complained about this and will not start now I want someone to get what they WANT not what's on the $13.00 or less menu. I order what I want but I find it strange how many times I have had girls order Lobster on me on a date and admit they rarely have lobster. I find it hillarious how many women order more food than they can possibly eat and after taking like 6 bites get the rest to go. I'm not bitching but I find it funny that these activities get ignored on threads like this. Now maybe I have had an abnormal life but I have been with enough women to have spotted a trend and seen the pattern. These things happen and they happen more offten then the stories that I have heard of respectful women doing it differently. LadyCimarron = I'm sorry this is going to come across rude or mean and I really don't want it to I just want to point out that according to your profile you live in Mississippi, I find it VERY difficult to believe that the Heart of the South, home of the Southern Bell and where the idea of Courting was made a historical idea..... When I think Mississippi I think Scarlett O'Hara... Now maybe in your professional Circle the majority of women are the financial backers to their Male partners but I find it hard to see Mississippi and think you are the Rule and not the exception, as I said for your professional circle I can understand and believe that.... for Mississippi, I'm sorry I just can't swallow that. QSM

LadyCimarron -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 4:27:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan LadyCimarron = I'm sorry this is going to come across rude or mean and I really don't want it to I just want to point out that according to your profile you live in Mississippi, I find it VERY difficult to believe that the Heart of the South, home of the Southern Bell and where the idea of Courting was made a historical idea..... When I think Mississippi I think Scarlett O'Hara... Now maybe in your professional Circle the majority of women are the financial backers to their Male partners but I find it hard to see Mississippi and think you are the Rule and not the exception, as I said for your professional circle I can understand and believe that.... for Mississippi, I'm sorry I just can't swallow that. QSM No not harsh. Just mis-informed. Scarlet Ohara??? A fictional pre civil war character??? She was actually in Georgia not Mississippi and was flat broke before the end of the movie and Rhett Butler was pretty much abusive to her. Furthermore I take offense to being compared to a white slave owner for reasons that should be obvious. In fact ALL women should be offended to being compared to a fictional character that bore no resemblance to real women either then or now. But let me explain something to you that you may not know Mississippi has the highest percentage of blacks than any other state in the union. (according the US Census bureau) http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmcensus1.html Mississippi also has the lowest per capita income and the highest rate of poverty of ALL states. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html I thought everyone in the country knew that Mississippi ranks dead last in all socioeconomic areas. Look it up, the crime rate, the prison rate, the low education rate and the rate of African american men who are either inprisoned (more than a third) or unemployed (more than half, if I am not mistaken). Put it together and do the math. And there are just not many women in my professional circle. I am speaking of women who live around me and who I know personally and have known most of my life; and none of them are professional women. I happen to be a bit more fortunate than most around me. But I have no reason to come here and pretend that my reality is anything except what it is. Just remember everyone doesn't live in Mayberry. Some of us live in a harsh and very real world that bears no resemblance to yours. And its an offensive and elitist attitude to assume that everyone's life and environment mirrors yours.

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 4:42:45 PM)
First, having never been to Mississippi, I have no idea what it's like there I only know what comes to mind. Second, I never mentioned race you did, and I wouldn't because I don't know what race has to do with dating. Third, I never compared you to a Fictional character, I compared my view of Mississippi to a concept in a movie that is my impression of a culture. Finally, I am beginning to wonder if you and I are having two different arguments and I'm just unaware of who you are talking to. I am talking about a concept of dating that for you to deny exists is rediculous. I am talking about Male/Female dating structures on a whole level not just BDSM and not just FemDom level I am talking about the majority of what is seen in the dating world. You have got to understand that you are an exception in the dating world and not the rule. To deny this is to deny the basic for what so many of those fictional romance movies are based on. If it wasn't based even ever so slightly in reality I doubt they would be as popular as they are. Because in my experience women want those fictional romance movies to be how it really is. Believe what you like, all I have been doing and will continue to do is discuss the elephant in the living room, and when everyone is discussing it only then can we figure out how to eat it. QSM

LadyCimarron -> RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? (6/18/2010 5:00:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan First, having never been to Mississippi, I have no idea what it's like there I only know what comes to mind. Second, I never mentioned race you did, and I wouldn't because I don't know what race has to do with dating. Third, I never compared you to a Fictional character, I compared my view of Mississippi to a concept in a movie that is my impression of a culture. Finally, I am beginning to wonder if you and I are having two different arguments and I'm just unaware of who you are talking to. I am talking about a concept of dating that for you to deny exists is rediculous. I am talking about Male/Female dating structures on a whole level not just BDSM and not just FemDom level I am talking about the majority of what is seen in the dating world. You have got to understand that you are an exception in the dating world and not the rule. To deny this is to deny the basic for what so many of those fictional romance movies are based on. If it wasn't based even ever so slightly in reality I doubt they would be as popular as they are. Because in my experience women want those fictional romance movies to be how it really is. Believe what you like, all I have been doing and will continue to do is discuss the elephant in the living room, and when everyone is discussing it only then can we figure out how to eat it. QSM First of all, if you don't know what's going on in Mississippi then don't imply that I am not telling the truth when I DO know what is going on. Second of all I mentioned race and where I live to point out that everyone's view of the dating world is not like yours. In my world men do not pay for the majority of dates. In your world it may be true, just not in mine. And coincidentally most of the people in my world happen to be black. I said nothing about femdom or the lifestyle. I mentioned WHERE I LIVE. You basically said what I was saying about dating and men and women in my community was not true and used scarlett ohara to base your beliefs upon. I quoted statistics to show you what I was saying WAS true. The fact is, my reality of dating in my world is vastly different than your reality of dating in your world. You pointed out the men in your mens group to make a point, I pointed out the women in my personal life to make mine and they just happen to be black and they happen to not "expect" men to pay for everything. Yes, I will believe what I like and you are likewise free to believe what you like. I too will continue to discuss the elephant in the room, but I will continue to point out that everyone's culture and communities are different. Where you live men may pay for everything, but the majority of the women whom you have been debating with right here have told you that THEY are not living in that reality either. And there is no elephant in the room. The solution is simple, keep your money in your pocket. No one is forcing anyone to spend money on another person. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. If you do decide to do it, don't bitch about it. See? Problem solved.

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