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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 2:05:44 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

OK; more or less I got the point. The most important thing is to choose the partner wisely.



Awww... SNot... I'm trying to work with you here.

I still feel as if you're not getting the point at all - It doesn't require a single ounce of wisdom to mandate that any partner must allow you to pursue your aspirations. That's not "wisdom" that's a simple requirement.

Indeed - in your case, perhaps you should mandate that any partner will kick your but every time you open the CM forums on your browser when you should be doing college work...

If it turns out that your D partner wont actually allow you to do this, and you're unwilling to compromise (which you're totally entitled to do) then the relationship ends.

Can it be simpler? Seriously - What's not to understand about this?

quote:




BTW, when I asked in the beginning "Can a slave have plans and aspirations" by the word "can" I didn't mean "be able to" but "be permitted (allowed) to".
Of course they can have aspirations. But I actually meant "Are they allowed to have their own plans and aspirations once they become slaves?"



Ok... fair enough. But again... you must know that the answer to that is going to be "it depends on the person" - Seriously... can you just confirm you get that point?

quote:


And I'm still asking it. I know that many Masters and Mistresses allow their slaves to pursue their dreams, ambitions and aspirations. But again is this common situation?  Or the more common situation is to have all the plans and aspiration of slave under control of the Master?


Sigh sigh sigh. And it's still an utterly utterly pointless question.

Some do, some don't. We can worry, meaninglessly, about the relative proportions that do or don't but - c'mon..

quote:


I'm not asking this without reason. I have read threads about entitlement. Some people say slaves aren't entitled to anything, not even to know what the Master intends for them. If they are not entitled to know Master's plans, how can they be entitled to their own plans?


Argh!!! Don't fucking entertain a conversation with a Dom who says slaves' aren't to anything. It's as simple as that. I'm not saying these Doms are wrong just that they're obviously wrong for you.

quote:


In general, I am asking because of possibility that I enter a relationship one day.
And sometimes it's much easier to say "choose wisely" than to actually do it.



Honestly, and I'm really trying to reach out to you SNot, you'll be lucky to find a D that is patient enough.

And yes, it's much easier to say "choose wisely" than to actually do it - that's why relationships fail. Sheesh.

A couple of questions...

1) Do you understand that you can mandate requirements of your D before entering a relationship with them?
2) Do you understand that there are a wide range of tastes/requirements and the key lies in finding someone with tastes/requirements that are compatible with your own?
3) Can you understand why I'm frustrated with you right now?


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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 2:05:48 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
In general, I am asking because of possibility that I enter a relationship one day.
And sometimes it's much easier to say "choose wisely" than to actually do it.


But that would be your problem and your issue  if you don't choose wisely.  People make mistakes every day, regardless of their orientation.  Your questions and posts come across as being determined to make Ms or Ds relationships seem unhealthy or the sum parts of the issue.

If you have a crap relationship, the ownership is up to you and the partner involved, not the 'dynamic' involved.

quote:

BTW, when I asked in the beginning "Can a slave have plans and aspirations" by the word "can" I didn't mean "be able to" but "be permitted (allowed) to".


Do you really see peoples responses as not understanding that?  Some people will permit it with no stipulations, some permit it under their guideness or lead, some don't even see permitment being an issue, but part of being a normal and healthy human being to have plans, aspirations and goals in life and then you get those that do not allow them REGARDLESS of gender or orientation.

You have to decide what you would be best suited to.
You have the choice.
You have the decision to make what kind of relationship you end up in.

(best rolf harris impression).... can you see what it is yet?

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 6/9/2010 2:06:33 AM >


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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 2:08:54 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
3) Can you understand why I'm frustrated with you right now?


I can.
Actually, it's quite sexy how it's being handled.

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 6/9/2010 2:11:41 AM >


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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 2:19:58 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

I can.
Actually, it's quite sexy how it's being handled.

*coughsuckupcough*
SMOOCH!


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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 2:25:17 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

I can.
Actually, it's quite sexy how it's being handled.

*coughsuckupcough*
SMOOCH!



Bah... my plan and aspirations identified by a wyldone! xxxx
*smoochies xxxxxx

the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 2:26:06 AM   
SocratesNot


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quote:

1) Do you understand that you can mandate requirements of your D before entering a relationship with them?


Yes, but some dominants want to dominate from the very beginning, and if you don't comply, you'll not be able to start relationship with them. They don't want any negotiation. And then many subs end up with such dominants because they prefer to be in any kind of relationship rather than in no relationship at all. Sometimes it is hard to find a dominant who is willing to negotiate. Actually it's hard to find adequate dominant at all, even more so if you are selective and have specific requirements.

quote:

2) Do you understand that there are a wide range of tastes/requirements and the key lies in finding someone with tastes/requirements that are compatible with your own?


Yes, of course, but again, it's quite hard thing to do.

quote:

3) Can you understand why I'm frustrated with you right now?


Not actually. I am quite aware of how is it possible in theory to be selective and to negotiate and to find a perfect partner for yourself.
In reality it is very hard to find a dominant partner if you are submissive and then it is very easy to end up with compromises that you'll regret later.


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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 2:29:31 AM   
tazzygirl


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Thats because you have the belief that slaves are the "roll over and play dead from day one" kind of submissives.

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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 2:29:34 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
3) Can you understand why I'm frustrated with you right now?


I can.
Actually, it's quite sexy how it's being handled.

the.dark.


There goes another coffee covered keyboard. Bastard!

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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 2:31:19 AM   
crazyml


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Ah well. Alas SNot, I don't think I can help you. Good luck and all...

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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 2:36:23 AM   
romanticukmaster


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of course a sub/ slave is still a person
sub/slave is just a way of life, he or she still has rights , feelings,

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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 3:33:48 AM   
Aileen1968


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Can a slave have plans and aspirations such as:

- to learn another language
- to learn to play violin, or guitar, or piano or any other instrument
- to finish certain schools, colleges, universities
- to pursue his / her religion or spiritual path
- to visit certain countries, to travel the world
- to advance in his / her career
- to have children and to raise them in a certian way

Or (s)he must surrender all of these plans, dreams and aspirations to the Master / Mistress, and pursue only the plans / aspirations  that Master / Mistress wants her / him to pursue.

What happens if the slave already has all of these plans and aspirations in the beginning of the relationship and have had them even before the relationship started.
Does he / she have to give up all of his / her plans, ambitions and aspirations if he / she wants to be a slave?


Every now and then I read a post by you and think...Aha. He's finally getting it. And then you go back to this inane stuff.
Seriously.

The only people that want someone in their lives that are uneducated, uncultured, anti-social, etc. are those who are themselves uneducated, uncultured, anti-social.

The first rule I have to follow is to be the best I can be. He views me as an extension of him and he ain't no dummy.

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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 3:37:33 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

He views me as an extension of him


Does that mean that in effect his shoe choices are an extension of yourself?




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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 3:38:48 AM   
caelestis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot


quote:

3) Can you understand why I'm frustrated with you right now?


Not actually. I am quite aware of how is it possible in theory to be selective and to negotiate and to find a perfect partner for yourself.
In reality it is very hard to find a dominant partner if you are submissive and then it is very easy to end up with compromises that you'll regret later.



As a submissive I find that statement ridiculous. It seems to me like you underestimate submissives entirely too much and forget the fact that a lot of us do in fact have backbones. Look at it this way, in order to best serve someone, you find the person who's ideals, wants, and needs best match up with your own. You find that person who brings that desire in you and does so not through "on your knees, bitch!" messages, but by taking the time to get to know you.

After all, these are relationships. They start out the same as any other. With work and getting to know the other person.

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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 3:58:19 AM   
Aileen1968


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

He views me as an extension of him


Does that mean that in effect his shoe choices are an extension of yourself?




He has great taste in shoes...except for the MANDALS.

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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 4:03:47 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

He has great taste in shoes...except for the MANDALS.
You might as well say 'he's great at obeying the law, except for that MASSIVE KILLING SPREE  IN WHICH  HE MURDERED HUNDREDS'.

(Teasing...)

ETA a smiley


< Message edited by VaguelyCurious -- 6/9/2010 4:05:06 AM >


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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 4:19:26 AM   
DarkSteven


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I believe that you have confused a slave with a pet rock.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

1) Do you understand that you can mandate requirements of your D before entering a relationship with them?


Yes, but some dominants want to dominate from the very beginning, and if you don't comply, you'll not be able to start relationship with them. They don't want any negotiation.



They call themselves "Dominants" because they would be unable to get any kind of partner without that moniker. They're not Dominant in the least, just Domineering idiots.


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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 4:53:54 AM   
Focus50


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Can a slave have plans and aspirations such as:

- to learn another language
- to learn to play violin, or guitar, or piano or any other instrument
- to finish certain schools, colleges, universities
- to pursue his / her religion or spiritual path
- to visit certain countries, to travel the world
- to advance in his / her career
- to have children and to raise them in a certian way

Or (s)he must surrender all of these plans, dreams and aspirations to the Master / Mistress, and pursue only the plans / aspirations  that Master / Mistress wants her / him to pursue.

What happens if the slave already has all of these plans and aspirations in the beginning of the relationship and have had them even before the relationship started.
Does he / she have to give up all of his / her plans, ambitions and aspirations if he / she wants to be a slave?

One can only hope that the day will come when you finally venture out of your cubby-hole and experience this lifestyle (you know, with a real, living, breathing human) which so fascinates you rather than just reading about it and theorising the logic of "roles" before plastering your musings across this Board like graffiti.

Seriously, you need to get a life you can *live*...!

Focus.


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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 4:59:01 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

One can only hope that the day will come when you finally venture out of your cubby-hole and experience this lifestyle (you know, with a real, living, breathing human) which so fascinates you rather than just reading about it and theorising the logic of "roles" before plastering your musings across this Board like graffiti.

Seriously, you need to get a life you can *live*...!

Focus.



Spot on. Classic Focus50 quality.

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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 5:08:04 AM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Or (s)he must surrender all of these plans, dreams and aspirations to the Master / Mistress, and pursue only the plans / aspirations  that Master / Mistress wants her / him to pursue.

What happens if the slave already has all of these plans and aspirations in the beginning of the relationship and have had them even before the relationship started.
Does he / she have to give up all of his / her plans, ambitions and aspirations if he / she wants to be a slave?


I'm going to answer you honestly because I think I get where you're coming from. Yes, we all enter relationships with areas of interests and things we'd like to do and explore in our lifetime. That's normal and I don't know many that can't say the same. But in terms of the exchange, the exploration of such is dependent on the initial agreement and the finality that the dominant possesses. Because as we've already covered, he can and does change his mind.

It is true that for some slavery is a vocation. It is the essence of their being and they exist to serve and please the owner. Persons with that aspiration may or may not work outside of the home. And that is typically based on financial necessity in all truth. In terms of the other things she finds enjoyable, the majority relate back to the owner, dynamic, or service in some manner. She improves herself in areas she knows he finds interesting and beneficial. Her personal desires are well aligned with his. Setting aside is a pretty strong word because it's really not an issue. She's moving to his cadence.

Other slaves have a more well rounded approach that may include the above and other activities that benefit their personal growth and development. Whether the dominant will permit them to engage in that manner while in the relationship depends on the dynamic. It behooves the girl to ask; especially where career, education, and important hobbies are involved. Getting everything upfront alleviates frustration and sour grapes later on. So, are there dominants that will ask you to give it up to be with them? You betcha. Have I encountered them in relationships and in conversations with potentials? Most definitely.

In terms of my experiences the big ones were career, education, and relocation. They desired someone that would remain at home, school was iffy to say the least, and relocation was a necessity. The latter has never been an issue in terms of travel or moving. But the first two were very bothersome for me. In fact, I wondered why they ever looked at me because I have never promoted the idea that I wanted to remain at home, but I digress it happens. I don't need to revisit the potential problems a situation like that might cause. The financial issues were addressed upfront and the solution was fair but something gnawed at me nonetheless.

I'd be sacrificing a great deal. Everything I enjoyed that made me uniquely porcelaine would come to a halt. My whole world would revolve around a dynamic and I'd have a laundry list of things I'd never done. I couldn't accept that. Not only because I had reservations and believed myself much too young to live that way, but I'd be compromising my happiness in the long run. I would have been miserable. As much as I would have enjoyed the relationship, I needed much more at the time. So I politely declined.

If you asked me today would I do the same I would admit it depends on the person and the dynamic we have. I don't know if I'm happy with that answer right now. I waver between healthy compromise and unreasonable contortion. But that's usually when I'm moving away from my mindset and not towards it. I believe we should strike a balance. Determining what that balance implies is up to the parties involved.

~porcelaine


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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 5:25:52 AM   
reynardfox


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Don't you ever go out?
Are you in prison or something?

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