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RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 5:23:11 PM

luckydawg

Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
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such a crazy view of history.

Why would the Rwandan slaughter not be counted? Other than the obvious political reason. Far more people were violently killed, than in all the "Proxy Wars" of Africa combined. Far, far more have been killed in the Congo War. The list goes on and on.

Are you pretending the Algerian Liberation War was a Cold War Proxy event? OR just don't count those dead people for some political reason.

I do see why posts like this need to be censored. the trolls would get very upset at having thier view of the world challenged.

_____________________________

I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 101

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 5:57:10 PM

StrangerThan

Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
Which faith do you think is more likely to promote violence?

Historically the hands down winner is Christianity. Far more people have been killed over it than any other faith.

The crappy part of it of it is, having to go back to historical references to have any chance of competing with the violence initiated by islam today.

The truth of the matter is that many religions, and just about every culture has a history of violence, slavery, and abuse. A correlating truth is that islam fuels the majority of it in recent times.

WTF? Define recent times in a way that makes your claim true.
last 100 years? The Holocaust is driven by a christian people following a tradition of their faith.
last 50 years? Most of the violence world wide was driven by the Cold War which is as much driven by the Christian/not christian conflict between the developed and developing world as it is by the clash of economic models. This can be easily seen by the overt attempts to "christianize" the US during this period.
last 20 years? Islamic terrorists have gotten a lot of press but the body count by christian terrorists worldwide is comparable. The body count caused by a POTUS supposedly instructed by god to invade a sovereign nation is far higher than his causus belli.

The perpetrator of the holocaust was also stopped by by christian people following their faith. The remnants of which are still hunted to this day. It's that matter of cleaning up oneself that makes the difference.

Turning the cold war into a Christian/non christian conflict is a stretch, by which I will ask you to name a point in time of American history where there was not an overt attempt to Christianize the US. By the way, the same thing was happening in Russia. Russia may not have claimed Christianity, but the faith was alive and well. If you want to dispute that, I can point you to a community of immigrants who can describe it to you.

As far as Bush and Saddam, the justification for war never rested on Saddam's brutality. Either way, your figures are wrong. Millions of people died from Saddam's actions. The Iraq-Iran war itself accounted for somewhere between 1 and 2 million people. Outside of that his brutality and willingness to slaughter his own people are well documented. I have no love for Bush, but claiming Bush killed more Iraqi's than Saddam isn't just wrong, it is blathering all over the point in an attempt to sideline the violence coming out of islam.

_____________________________

--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 102

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 6:05:55 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
Which faith do you think is more likely to promote violence?

Historically the hands down winner is Christianity. Far more people have been killed over it than any other faith.

That may or may not be true as we stroll backwards thru the millenia. I don't care as much about, say, 1100 A.D. as I do about today.

Which faith do you think is more likely to promote violence today?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 103

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 6:13:01 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

last 100 years? The Holocaust is driven by a christian people following a tradition of their faith.
last 50 years? Most of the violence world wide was driven by the Cold War which is as much driven by the Christian/not christian conflict between the developed and developing world as it is by the clash of economic models. This can be easily seen by the overt attempts to "christianize" the US during this period.
last 20 years? Islamic terrorists have gotten a lot of press but the body count by christian terrorists worldwide is comparable. The body count caused by a POTUS supposedly instructed by god to invade a sovereign nation is far higher than his causus belli.

The holocaust was promoted by a faith? Not unless some Imam was ringing the bell.

Pick the one closest to the truth:

1. Islam was a causative factor in 9-11.
2. Christianity was a causative factoe in the Holocaust.

I can't quit laughing over the Christian/non-Christian Cold war stuff. Maybe later.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 104

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 6:15:35 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, many of the problems in Africa and the middle east.

These were promoted by a faith? I love painting libs into ridiculous little corners.

Matter of fact, this calls for a tagline change.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 105

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 7:08:53 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The holocaust was promoted by a faith? Not unless some Imam was ringing the bell.

Ringing the bell..no, but whispering in Hitlers ear...definitely. The links between the Muslim Brotherhood and Hitler and the timing of the beginning of the Final Solution stink to high heaven.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 106

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 7:27:46 PM

TheMooose

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Joined: 7/20/2010
Status: offline

The Imam was Haj Amin Al Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who also spent most of the war in Berlin and did his best to organize a Moslem Army while there. The largest unit from these efforts was the Handschar formation in the SS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 107

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 7:36:38 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheMooose

The Imam was Haj Amin Al Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who also spent most of the war in Berlin and did his best to organize a Moslem Army while there. The largest unit from these efforts was the Handschar formation in the SS.

I cannot begin to tell you how shocked I am to learn that the religion of peace was aligned with Hitler. Shocked, I tell you. I may have to retire early tonight.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to TheMooose)

Post #: 108

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 7:36:55 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheMooose

The Imam was Haj Amin Al Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who also spent most of the war in Berlin and did his best to organize a Moslem Army while there. The largest unit from these efforts was the Handschar formation in the SS.

Yes, I go into more detail including the timing of his visits vs the change in the treatment of Jews from isolation/deportation to extermination in another thread.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to TheMooose)

Post #: 109

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 7:58:21 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheMooose

The Imam was Haj Amin Al Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who also spent most of the war in Berlin and did his best to organize a Moslem Army while there. The largest unit from these efforts was the Handschar formation in the SS.

Yes, I go into more detail including the timing of his visits vs the change in the treatment of Jews from isolation/deportation to extermination in another thread.

So, in your galaxy, correlation = causation, does it?

Odd, my book on the SHoah doesn't mention the Grand Fuckwad at all. And it is authoritative.

Is this "Fantasy History" thing that seems to be so popular with far-right wingnuts derived from Fantasy Football?

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 110

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 8:15:32 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheMooose

The Imam was Haj Amin Al Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who also spent most of the war in Berlin and did his best to organize a Moslem Army while there. The largest unit from these efforts was the Handschar formation in the SS.

Yes, I go into more detail including the timing of his visits vs the change in the treatment of Jews from isolation/deportation to extermination in another thread.

So, in your galaxy, correlation = causation, does it?

Odd, my book on the SHoah doesn't mention the Grand Fuckwad at all. And it is authoritative.

Odd that you consider a book that omits an important part of history that isnt disputed is "authoritative".

And correlation IMPLIES causation when there is no evidence of third variable that they both are correlated with.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 111

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 8:22:24 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Haj Amin Al Husseini

I had never heard of the Grand Mufti, either, HK, so what I did was, I used something called Google to look him up. Lo and behold!!! All sorts of information. Seems a lot of this was brought out at something called the Nuremberg Trials, which I guess was sorta a big deal back when. Google, it's what's for information.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 112

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 8:46:58 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheMooose

The Imam was Haj Amin Al Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who also spent most of the war in Berlin and did his best to organize a Moslem Army while there. The largest unit from these efforts was the Handschar formation in the SS.

Yes, I go into more detail including the timing of his visits vs the change in the treatment of Jews from isolation/deportation to extermination in another thread.

So, in your galaxy, correlation = causation, does it?

Odd, my book on the SHoah doesn't mention the Grand Fuckwad at all. And it is authoritative.

Odd that you consider a book that omits an important part of history that isnt disputed is "authoritative".

And correlation IMPLIES causation when there is no evidence of third variable that they both are correlated with.

Yeah, absolutely, when the book is The Wannsee Conference and the Genocide of the European Jews; Gedenkstätte Haus der Wannsee-Konferenz, Berlin 2002. Dieses Buch gives the complete chronology of the Holocaust from 1933 onward, with citations for the prelude to the Holocaust from 1853.

I'm all in with a Royal Flush, MF.

And you are as FOS about correlation implying causation as you are about what a Strawman Fallacy is (as well as everything else in your Bizarro universe).

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 113

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 8:49:00 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Haj Amin Al Husseini

I had never heard of the Grand Mufti, either, HK, so what I did was, I used something called Google to look him up. Lo and behold!!! All sorts of information. Seems a lot of this was brought out at something called the Nuremberg Trials, which I guess was sorta a big deal back when. Google, it's what's for information.

See how many hits you get for alien anal probes, Gomer.

Google, it's what's for CITATIONS.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 114

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 8:57:46 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

And you are as FOS about correlation implying causation as you are about what a Strawman Fallacy is (as well as everything else in your Bizarro universe).

Stick to topics you have actual knowledge of. And your post is a TOS violation.

"First, let me give a short answer to the question "When does correlation imply causation?" The short answer is: When the data from which the correlation was computed were obtained by experimental means with appropriate care to avoid confounding and other threats to the internal validity of the experiment."

"To make such causal inferences one must gather the data by experimental means, controlling extraneous variables which might confound the results. Having gathered the data in this fashion, if one can establish that the experimentally manipulated variable is correlated with the dependent variable (and that correlation does not need to be linear), then one should be (somewhat) comfortable in making a causal inference."

"That is, when the data have been gathered by experimental means and confounds have been eliminated, correlation does imply causation."

when does correlation imply causation

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 8/28/2010 9:03:47 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 115

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 9:26:35 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

And you are as FOS about correlation implying causation as you are about what a Strawman Fallacy is (as well as everything else in your Bizarro universe).

Stick to topics you have actual knowledge of. And your post is a TOS violation.

Waaah! Waaaah!

It's the same thing on the other two Kink-site political forums I post on. It's almost always the right-wankers who go whining about AUP/TOS violations to the Mods.

Why are so many right-wankers such draft-avoiding, toe-tapping, wife-with-cancer-divorcing, diaper-shitting, alcoholic pussies?

Fuckin' hilarious to watch the John Wayne idolizing gun-toting he-men go whining to (mommy) the Mods.

Maybe you can borrow a pair, 'cause it's way too late for you to grow any.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 116

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 10:22:19 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

The claims about the Grand Mufti and the Shoah are tenous at best. Much stronger connections can be made to the Catholic Church including the reigning pope. Christianity is absolutely positively no argument possible the root of the anti semitism that allowed Hitler and the Nazis to demonize the Jews in the first place.

As to the cold war being Christian/NonChristian I simply will remind that the US Pledge of Allegiance was "christianized" during the 50's. Many other examples can be found to show that leaders of this nation certainly viewed it as a religious conflict.

As to Bush's Crusade the causus belli was not Hussein's treatment of his people but 9/11 (we all know this so please don't argue otherwise). 3000 US citizens died. At least 2 orders of magnitude more Iraqis died as a result of the invasion and occupation.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 117

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 10:33:41 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Waaah! Waaaah!

It's the same thing on the other two Kink-site political forums I post on. It's almost always the right-wankers who go whining about AUP/TOS violations to the Mods.

Why are so many right-wankers such draft-avoiding, toe-tapping, wife-with-cancer-divorcing, diaper-shitting, alcoholic pussies?

Fuckin' hilarious to watch the John Wayne idolizing gun-toting he-men go whining to (mommy) the Mods.

Maybe you can borrow a pair, 'cause it's way too late for you to grow any.

Jeeez... time for some nice warm milk and a nap.

K.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 118

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 10:35:51 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT

The jews declared war on germany

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 119

RE: His Muslim faith - 8/28/2010 10:52:03 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Waaah! Waaaah!

It's the same thing on the other two Kink-site political forums I post on. It's almost always the right-wankers who go whining about AUP/TOS violations to the Mods.

Why are so many right-wankers such draft-avoiding, toe-tapping, wife-with-cancer-divorcing, diaper-shitting, alcoholic pussies?

Fuckin' hilarious to watch the John Wayne idolizing gun-toting he-men go whining to (mommy) the Mods.

Maybe you can borrow a pair, 'cause it's way too late for you to grow any.

Jeeez... time for some nice warm milk and a nap.

K.

No. Cold beer and "Young Frankenstein".

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 120

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