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sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 5:30:57 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

every time i come on to CM a random profile of a D type greets me, i sometimes read it and sometimes i dont, but its just something that ive noticed today really, that pretty much all of the pictures and all of the profiles either have the guy standing there with some cane or flogger in his hand and a profile that talks largely about pain delivery.

im not making a comment either way but it seems to me that a high proportion of Dominants identify more with inflicting pain as an expression of their dominance than, well, being dominant and enjoying the BDSM elements as fringe benefits of having a sub around who likes/needs/requires some level of pain/discipline/whatever.

it just seemed to me, after reading the profile that came up today, that dominance equates to pain for quite a few profiles ive seen..

i think part of my confusion is that up until recently i dated guys who were sadists first and foremost, their dominance skills were variable but theyre driver was sadism. im tentatively assuming therefore that sadism is what brought them here and that the dominance of me was a side issue that they picked up as we went along.

so i suppose my question is, what comes first, how important is pain play to a Dominant and why. do you identify as a sadist or as a Dominant. was it youre desire to dominate or youre urge to explore BDSM with a consenting submissive that came first and are those two things so inextricably linked that its impossible to separate them.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

Post #: 1

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 5:59:49 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Most people are tops, dominants are actually pretty uncommon, regardless of what the label on the box says.

I backed into bdsm starting out as a domineering asshole, then working on becoming a decent person, then a decent dominant and have recently been exploring being a top to casual partners and enjoying the hell out of that.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 2

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 6:14:38 AM

sojourner9

Posts: 22
Joined: 7/9/2008
Status: offline

I think pretty much all Dom's have at least some sadistic tendencies. And, probably nearly all sadist have at least some dominance tendencies.

For me - Dominance comes first. I could do D/s with someone that I didn't top. To my mind, topping someone you aren't a Dom to is typically casual play, and that just hold nearly as much interest to me.

I rate it like this:

1st I want a submissive.
2nd I want a bottom.
3rd I want kinky sex.

I can definitely do D/s without s/m or sex since dominance is my primary drive.
I could do topping without D/s, but typically only for specific reasons such as trying out a new experience or training with a specific toy or method.
I have no desire to go looking for kinky sex without D/s. I can get it at home, so I don't need to find someone for that if we're not involved in something else also.

Ideally - I want all 3. But, I certainly have an order to things I must have or can do without.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 3

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 6:32:23 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Ideally I want a domestic service slave. Any other fun and games comes second as light entertainment (light being dependent in which side of the flogger I use). I can enjoy sadism provided I know the girl enjoys pain, if not the sadism subsides and other things take over such as enjoying the girl, her company and just having her sitting/kneeling at or near my feet. Firstly, I am a sensualist and love erotic sensuality, sexually teasing and that style of entertainment is more pleasurable for me that beating the tar out of a well rounded sexy bare bottom. That the knowledge that she will obey me is oft satisfaction enough and knowing she is mine. But too, I also know what I seek is almost impossible to find so I don't raise a sweat about such things any more.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to sojourner9)

Post #: 4

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 6:42:34 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

While it is a wonderful question, lally, I'm not sure that I'm much help. This is one of those areas that is back-asswards for Me.

I wasn't a sadist when I started out. I tend to think that most folks are because it's easier. Controlling a person's body is so much simpler than controlling a person's mind. All you have to do is introduce a physical stimulus to create a reaction. Literally, anybody can do that. It's nothing more than a parlor trick.

I do still separate them. Don't get Me wrong. I love the hell out of topping. I'm not knocking that at all and these days, even if I wasn't a Dominant, I'd probably still be a top. Still, putting the two together is really where it's at for Me.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to sojourner9)

Post #: 5

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 6:56:05 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

thanks guys, i have a bit of learning curve to do here i think

in a funny sort of a way ive been trained to provide what i provide, but by sadists largely - i now have to go about this a different way with a Dominant who doesnt identify as a sadist but enjoys BDSM as a means to bringing me catharsis and him the pleasure of providing that - it turns my training on its head in a way - and im finding this hard to wrap my head around to be honest -

i understand that the pleasure he gets from seeing me squiggle and squirm a bit to get to catharsis gives him pleasure too and that in there is the enjoyment of 'bashing my bum' as he put it

- i suppose its the whole thing of 'giving me' this thing rather than him taking it for himself entirely. this is a symbiosis but not the one im used to.

i want to ask him about this but i need to get it straight in my head a bit first, i just dont know what to ask in order to get the answers im after, if you know what i mean.

none of that probably makes any sense but im doing this in a dash..., anyway thank you guys, again, i appreciate it. xx

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 6

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 7:56:25 AM

LadyCimarron

Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline

I state clearly in my profile that I AM A SADIST. I repeat several times to any potential subs who contact me. And I make it clear that I get off on pain. I can actually orgasm while spanking a sub. I identify as a sadist. I mark Domme in my profile because that's the closest option given. If a sub cannot accept some type of pain from me, I don't even consider him. I originally came into this lifetyle to explore. I knew I had a thing for spanking but until I tried it I wasn't sure if I liked giving or receiving better. Turns out it is much better to give than to receive. It didn't take long for me to figure out that while I enjoy the dominance, I LOVE giving pain. What did take a long time for me was actually accepting that I am sadist. It just seemed so wrong to get off on other people's suffering. But I have accepted it; in fact I relish in it. I love being a sadist and I see a masochist as the "yin to my yang."

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 7

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 8:25:29 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

when I top, I am purely a sadist. I dont care about the d/s aspect .. I do not WANT submission except to the extenet that it allows me to hurt the bottom..,..

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to LadyCimarron)

Post #: 8

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 8:26:38 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

I state clearly in my profile that I AM A SADIST. I repeat several times to any potential subs who contact me. And I make it clear that I get off on pain. I can actually orgasm while spanking a sub. I identify as a sadist. I mark Domme in my profile because that's the closest option given. If a sub cannot accept some type of pain from me, I don't even consider him. I originally came into this lifetyle to explore. I knew I had a thing for spanking but until I tried it I wasn't sure if I liked giving or receiving better. Turns out it is much better to give than to receive. It didn't take long for me to figure out that while I enjoy the dominance, I LOVE giving pain. What did take a long time for me was actually accepting that I am sadist. It just seemed so wrong to get off on other people's suffering. But I have accepted it; in fact I relish in it. I love being a sadist and I see a masochist as the "yin to my yang."

so, really there should be the options when filling in a profile, that of sadist and massochist, the roles are clear and if a person doesnt identify as a dominant or a sub they dont have to put that. it seems therefore, from what everyone has put here that there is a clear defining line between dominance and sadism, the two dont have to be synonymous but may become so eventually.

then the differentiation as im begining to see it, is in whether you are a top/sadist and/or a Dominant - but that sadism is not an expression of Dominance

have to shoot again, excuse the random thinking here -

- thoughts a little incomplete at the moment.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to LadyCimarron)

Post #: 9

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 8:45:03 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Well there really is nothing that binds them. Lots of subs and non- doms are sadists. Most "sadists" are just people who want positive reactions and get it through pain.

But there is a lot of pressure for a public dom to be a play dom, to become some expert in some regard. There isn't as much ooh-ing for a 6 year dynamic that quietly and smoothly has progressed to secure reality, but it's a lot less rare than that expert fireplay dude.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 10

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 9:50:35 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

It's also more fun to talk about. Him saying he wants chocolate ice cream, not peach is a clear example of dominance. But hardly worth watching or talking about.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 11

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 9:55:15 AM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

My owner is more interested in the D/s...M/s dynamic - the overall relationship and being the leader of it, than he is about S&M play. He wanted a good woman who would submit to him in all areas of the relationship. Bedroom fun is icing on the cake.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 12

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 10:45:55 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

it just seemed to me, after reading the profile that came up today, that dominance equates to pain for quite a few profiles ive seen..

That's because in large part, BDSM and kink seem to be synonymous. It's no surprise to me that most "doms" are sadists and most "subs" are masochists -- that's the pool we're swimming in. Nor is it any surprise to me that when swimming in a pool full of kinky people, there's a lot of focus on sexuality. Finally, as I understand the history, the whole BDSM thing used to be simply SM. You were either a sadist or a masochist. In that light, it's not really a surprise to me that the word "dominant" is intimately connected with "sadist" in this community.

Personally, I suspect that there are lots of dominant and submissive personalities out in the non BDSM world and they don't think in terms of sadism and masochism.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 13

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 11:34:42 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It's also more fun to talk about. Him saying he wants chocolate ice cream, not peach is a clear example of dominance. But hardly worth watching or talking about.

!!

... but joking apart youve made a really good point.

the dramatics of BDSM are so much more fascinating than flavours of ice cream (btw is peach ice cream nice, we dont have peach over here!) and as LP says its easier to whip a sub into place than engage the gray cells and achieve compliance intelligently.

but you know theres something else flipping about in my brain and i cant grab it...... im going to the gym, see if that helps.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 14

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 11:54:43 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

A few years ago I was searching for a dominant that enjoyed inflicting pain as I wanted to explore my masochistic side, what I found instead was a Daddy Dom who inflicted pain to pleasure me. Pain was not the cornerstone of the dynamic, even though I wanted it to be when we first hooked up...

A few years ago I came across a lot of sensual doms that were not into anything more painful than an OTK spanking. Now I am in the market again, I haven't paid attention to what is trending now because I look at the entire profile that emails me, not the photos. In fact I put a lot of stock in the screen name... I think the screen name speaks louder than anything about what someone seeks... Someone named "humili8her" or "sterndickhead" is making a big statement with that as a name... more so than a photo of a flogger which says nothing about how hard or how skillfully they use it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 15

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 12:00:06 PM

vield

Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Open minds are wonderful to find!

The categories people classify themselves in on line may or may not reflect their most important needs in real life.

Pain play is often what we have to give to be able to connect with partners who indentify as bottoms, subs or slaves. Pain play is often what we need to accept to connect with partners who identify as tops, or dominants. In any case we often need to have an open mind about discussing these things in order to begin conversations here.

Dominants can be masochists. Submissives can be sadists. There are lots of couples who enjoy kinks associated with a power exchange that will give or take a degree of pain as necessary, but who really focus much more upon sensuality, or service, or role playing, or sexually pleasing their partners. There are others for whom frequent intense pain (whether giving, getting or both) is an important orgasmic part of their lives!

I learned long ago that there are no hard and fast rules everyone accepts, no "graven in stone" definitions that mean the same thing to everyone, and no universal limits which everyone agrees to. I have MY rules, limits, definitions, wants, needs and desires, but others will only understand these if they spend a bit of time communicating with me. Likewise I shall only understand theirs by taking the time to discuss these topics with them.

Posting labels, profiles and so forth can sometimes help us connect with folks with similar interests. Of course lots of folks will claim to share our interests to try to get us to meet their own needs.

I try to recommend an open mind, honest communications and being very careful about personal safety when seeking any personal connection, kinky or otherwise.

_____________________________

As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 16

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 12:28:48 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It's also more fun to talk about. Him saying he wants chocolate ice cream, not peach is a clear example of dominance. But hardly worth watching or talking about.

!!

... but joking apart youve made a really good point.

the dramatics of BDSM are so much more fascinating than flavours of ice cream (btw is peach ice cream nice, we dont have peach over here!) and as LP says its easier to whip a sub into place than engage the gray cells and achieve compliance intelligently.

but you know theres something else flipping about in my brain and i cant grab it...... im going to the gym, see if that helps.

Edy's Summer Peach Pie is superb. Unfortunately I only get to buy fruit ice creams if he isn't around. His rule is that whatever it is, must contain some chocolate. Fudge ripple, chocolate chip, Reese's Peanut Butter Cup, Cookies and Cream. If it doesn't have chocolate, I don't buy it.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 17

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 2:37:07 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

there is a clear defining line between dominance and sadism, the two dont have to be synonymous but may become so eventually.

Or a third option......that being that sadism and dominance are valued components of the relationship from the off...with sadism being an essential expression of dominance.

A D/s relationship based purely on a service dynamic.....not so appealing....

Sadism detached from a D/s dynamic....yeah....may serve a need......but lacking it's context and reason for being.....

And I'd add something else....sadism isn't necesarily all consuming in terms of sexual needs...I say this because the title doesn't seem to leave room for sexual needs outside of sadism for a sadist.....it's not beyond the realms of possibility that a person likes knives and cutting.....but given a certain mood can be quite happy with a more leisurely encounter.

In terms of 'becoming synonymous'.....I think you can learn to be a dominant.....but not convinced you can learn to be a sadist....that sort of thing is either in you or it's not.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 18

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 4:17:17 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

it just seemed to me, after reading the profile that came up today, that dominance equates to pain for quite a few profiles ive seen..

That's because in large part, BDSM and kink seem to be synonymous. It's no surprise to me that most "doms" are sadists and most "subs" are masochists -- that's the pool we're swimming in. Nor is it any surprise to me that when swimming in a pool full of kinky people, there's a lot of focus on sexuality. Finally, as I understand the history, the whole BDSM thing used to be simply SM. You were either a sadist or a masochist. In that light, it's not really a surprise to me that the word "dominant" is intimately connected with "sadist" in this community.

Personally, I suspect that there are lots of dominant and submissive personalities out in the non BDSM world and they don't think in terms of sadism and masochism.

I agree with Jeff's post. I believe it to be rather silly to equate that ever Dominant has Sadistic tendencies or that every Sadist has Dominant tendencies. The two are very different concepts that can co-exist very nicely. Unfortuanately, many are not able to make the distinction very well so they just lump them together.

To me this is very much like those that lump SM into sexuality. I believe that they do and can co-exist rather nicely but the don't equate having having one with the other. The distinction is rather evident for me when I have an SM scene with a Male or a female that I am not sexually attracted to.

I can very much be enjoy my sadistic aspects without being sexually aroused or have Dominance over the person. But... it is great when I am enjoying my Sadistic Pleasures, My Sexual Pleasures and my Dominant Pleasures all at one time!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 19

RE: sadism V dominance - 6/14/2010 4:36:00 PM

StrongSpirit

Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline

I am a dominant, not a top. I don't like pain. I think that part of the main problem is that pain people don't understand the Dominants/Submissives. Many Sadists/Masochists, they like to 'push' their limits. Moreover, beginners often start out in DS because they don't trust themselves enough to try SM.   End result, SM people sometimes think that more is better, so the person that takes/can safely give the 'most' pain is the 'best'. Then they come across someone like me that doesn't like pain, so some of them think I am 'not real', or a beginner.

No. I am experienced and very good at what I do, but it doesn't involve pain (except in rather small quantities). It is about control.

In addition, it is easier to be a Dominant than a Top in a vanilla world.   If I tell people I want an obedient woman, people think I am merely unevolved, but if someone says they like to beat women, they think you are a criminal. Neither is correct, but I still come out looking better, so it is easier for me to date a vanilla woman and convert her.

End result, more SM people are drawn to the Internet then DS people are, because they need it a bit more and at the same time there is an undercurrent of disrespect from the SM people towards the DS people.

But trust me, there are quite a lot of of DS players out here.   We do what we want, enjoy it, and ignore the people that don't want to play with us.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 20

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