RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (Full Version)

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WyldHrt -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 11:05:54 AM)

quote:

Actually, as I read the sentence, it was a general declarative saying "NOBODY gets to set someone else's limits". I counted myself as a part of anyone and I'm not agreeing to give Des that authority.
I read it as specifically to SN too, Jeff. *shrug*




Mercnbeth -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 11:11:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

Actually, as I read the sentence, it was a general declarative saying "NOBODY gets to set someone else's limits". I counted myself as a part of anyone and I'm not agreeing to give Des that authority.
I read it as specifically to SN too, Jeff. *shrug*



so what if it was just directed at SocNot...why can't SocNot set somebody else's limits if that's the sort of relationship he and his partner(s) craft together? Does DesFIP have some sort of authority over him that she can tell him what he can and can't do?
[:)]




WyldHrt -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 11:17:06 AM)

 I don't think she meant in his own relationships, beth, only that he doesn't get to set or approve the limits in other people's relationships.
Geeze, tough room! [:D] 




Mercnbeth -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 11:32:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

 I don't think she meant in his own relationships, beth, only that he doesn't get to set or approve the limits in other people's relationships.
Geeze, tough room! [:D] 


sorry, WyldHrt it must be because as long as this slave has been here she (DesFIP) has been posting sweeping generalizations that are just as narrow-minded/OTW as the ones SocNot proposes...ironic, n'est-ce pas?[;)]




caelestis -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 11:43:22 AM)

Why do some people only drive manual cars? Why do some people only use Mac computers over Dell? Why do some people hate dogs but not cats?

A lot of your questions are just like those above. It all depends on the person answering, and for every person you find that does those things, there are the exact opposite, as well as every single alternative answer you could imagine.

Its all subjective. What exactly are you trying to figure out?




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 12:07:28 PM)

quote:

I want to ask, why are these things such a tremendously big deal?


I think they're a big deal for two reasons. One is strictly pragmatic, and the other tends to be more... ethereal.

On a strictly practical level, it is often because of the sheer volume of emails from people who want you to "switch for them" or participate in X activity that you clearly state you won't "just for them". Unfortunately, this becomes a lesson in frustration since the people who don't pay enough attention to your profile to know that you align as dominant or don't do needle play or don't cuckold -still- aren't going to pay any attention -- they're going to continue to spam every account in a given category or two or three, just to see if they can get a rise out of someone.

On the more ethereal/philosophical level, it may be because, on some level, these areas are things that the person uses to define hirself. Having to yield on them would profoundly affect that person's vision of hirself, and in truth, xhe feels that xhe is being honest in that xhe can't see hirself doing those things.

For myself, I know that there are some things that I just don't do. I don't do scat or adult baby play. One I find unpleasant, even when the discharges are my own to deal with, and the other comes from having actually -raised- offspring and, frankly, not really being interested, now that mine are grown, in establishing that kind of relationship as part of an ongoing dynamic. However, I won't use the term "never", because things can happen.

In the same way, I am a dominant personality... however, circumstances required that I spend some time in a very yielding role on two occasions. While I was not facile at it, and it was frustrating for everyone involved, I actually managed to comport myself rather well most of the time and found that I didn't need to -define- myself by my tendency to dominate a situation... rather, I could just -be-, and choose to embrace the directions in which I was best fulfilled, while remaining flexible enough to be able to further my own progress via those other directions, should the need arise.

While I don't do "scat", I would have no problem cleaning up after a family member or friend who was incontinent due to medical reasons. While I don't do "adult baby" play, I am perfectly fine with the idea that sometimes I have to shelter and nurture the friends and family who need a mother-counselor more than the need a peer.

Absolutes are external expressions of our own internal priorities, discomforts, fears, and canalization to society's mores. They are what they are, and, like everything else, they help to define us to others (and sometimes to ourselves). Developing a flexible definition of oneself is challenging and takes a lifetime of learning flexibility, and I think it is valuable to know whether the person one is dealing with is flexible in certain areas, or leans towards being more rigid, as it helps one to know how to approach the person and how interaction might progress.

Calla




PeonForHer -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 12:13:11 PM)

SN,

I identify as a submale because that relates to my key interest - the bullseye of my desires.  I have topped before (though I hadn't even heard of the term before) and I got some fun from a sort of dominant place in my head.  However, I got the most fun by vicarious means:  I knew what the women wanted and knew what would turn them on - because I could empathise.  I, too, find it strange that some people don't get more fun than they do from that 'vicarious place' inside themselves. 

On the other hand, others don't do things simply because they just have no interest in doing them.  They don't enjoy them.  I can't stand football, for instance, and (especially right now) this seems to leave me a national minority of one.  ([:(])  I do think it's as simple as that:  why bother with something that you don't like doing?  Who's life is long enough to do that?

On a side note:  I love the threads you start.  Most of the time, you don't stir anything up - the other contributors to your threads do.  They will see judgements and prejudices in any words that you use and pounce on you for them.   Anything, rather than answer what seem to me to be quite legitimate, and often very thought-provoking, questions.  (As such questions would be, eventually, from someone who was inspired so much by the Socratic method of questioning.  Yup, I remember that post well.)

But you - and this is the thing I like most of all - seem utterly impervious to every snide comment aimed your way.  It cracks me up laughing - because the usual CM method of getting rid of people who rock the boat is plainly futile in your case. 

Bollocks to people's delicate egos and senses of identity.  Good luck - and more power to your elbow! [;)]




DesFIP -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 12:17:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
You don't get to set someone else's limits. You do get to ask why but you don't get to rule if it's acceptable.

Who You? Me? I'm afraid that it's Carol who gets to decide this, not you Des.


Sorry Jeff, it was a fast reply.
But yeah, I decide my hard limits and he decided if they were compatible with his and vice versa.




Ishtarr -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 1:09:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

1. I am just a Dom(me) I will NEVER switch.
2. I'm a switch but I will NEVER switch with same person. If I am submissive to him/her, I will always be submissive to him/her. If I am dominating him/her, I will always dominate him/her. But I will NEVER change my role with a single person.
3. I will NEVER top men.
4. My subs will NEVER have sex with me / My subs will NEVER penetrate me. (Yes some lifestyle dommes say this in their profiles, too, not just pro's)

I want to ask, why are these things such a tremendously big deal?



~Didn't read the other replies before posting~

If you're straight, why is it such a big deal to engage in intercourse with people of the same sex?
If you're gay, why is it such a big deal to engage in intercourse with people of the opposite sex?
If you're a vegetarian, why is it such a big deal to eat meat?
If you don't like bestiality, why is it such a big deal to engage in intercourse with animals?
If you don't like scat, why is it such a big deal to eat a turd?
If you don't like pain, why is it such a big deal to be hurt by somebody?
If you don't like X, then why is it such a big deal to do X?


In fact, Socrates, why is it such a big deal to you that people don't do things that they simple do not want to do, for whatever reason it is that they don't want to do it?






Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 1:21:27 PM)

For me, I don't want someone who's a switch, I want a Dom. If you're wanting to switch and have me dominate you, it's just not going to work for me.

A lot of people, these things are tied to their sexuality and, or they do it for fun, and for some people, switching with their partner, or domming other genders don't turn them on. And if your sole purpose of doing kink is to be turned on and have fun then WHY top others who don't do it for you.




quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot



If you are a switch  in a good D/s  relationship with one person, why you think that the harmony of the relationship will be destroyed forever if you try switching with him/her, even just for a very little time? Yes you switch, but you are always in the same role with the same person. Why is it so unimaginable to try switching with the same man or woman?

You are a switch and a bisexual woman, but you claim you will NEVER top men, no matter what. Why is that so? You can submit to men, submit to women, top women, but you think it's absolutely impossible for you to top men. Why is that so?


I find this topic very interesting and I am looking forward to interesting answers.





SocratesNot -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 1:25:37 PM)

quote:

If you're straight, why is it such a big deal to engage in intercourse with people of the same sex?


Because 1 ) I feel no attraction towards men; 2 ) Because even if I tried it just out of curiosity, I would feel guilty for breaking certain taboos; 3 ) Because once I have done this I am never the same person as before doing it and I don't want such type of change to occur in me.

quote:

If you're gay, why is it such a big deal to engage in intercourse with people of the opposite sex?


I am not a gay, so I don't know the answer. I suspect the only reason in this case is lack of attraction, because there are no taboos about heterosexuality.

quote:

If you're a vegetarian, why is it such a big deal to eat meat?


Because people want to stick to their principles and want to make difference etc. If they ended up in a situation where there is no other food but meat, most of them would eat it to survive.

quote:

If you don't like bestiality, why is it such a big deal to engage in intercourse with animals?


It is not just about "not being into it", it is about ethics. I know this sounds silly, but there is some subconscious attitude that people are superior beings to animals, so it is morally repulsive to engage in sex with inferior beings and also, this is unhealthy, can lead to disease, etc. This is also about cultural conditioning about human dignity, which is deeply imprinted in us and which says it is simply wrong.
quote:


If you don't like scat, why is it such a big deal to eat a turd?


It stinks, it is disgusting, it is extremely humiliating, I would never be the same person once I did it, and I would never forgive myself for doing such utterly foolish thing. And yes, this is also about pride and dignity. And also this is extremely unhealthy - can cause serious infections.

quote:

If you don't like pain, why is it such a big deal to be hurt by somebody?

I don't like the pain, but this wouldn't be such a big deal, I even think it is healthy to exercise some pain endurance if this does not lead to permanent harm.




smilezz -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 2:30:08 PM)

I have learned and am still learning moment by moment that Never say Never is part of my realm......new things pop up around the corner all the time and it's wise to be prepared and informed and to just go with the flow of life.

-smilezz-




SocratesNot -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 2:45:05 PM)

quote:

Never say Never


I actually love this saying. And I dislike the word "never" and all the other words that imply rigidity, absolutes, totals, etc.
Whenever I see something absolute or rigid I instinctively feel the urge to shake its foundations.




RCdc -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 2:49:29 PM)

So through your two threads SocratesNot, which are you finding more attractive or do you relate to?
Never saying never or having limits?

the.dark.




LadyPact -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 2:50:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

If you're straight, why is it such a big deal to engage in intercourse with people of the same sex?


Because 1 ) I feel no attraction towards men; 2 ) Because even if I tried it just out of curiosity, I would feel guilty for breaking certain taboos; 3 ) Because once I have done this I am never the same person as before doing it and I don't want such type of change to occur in me.

quote:

If you're gay, why is it such a big deal to engage in intercourse with people of the opposite sex?


I am not a gay, so I don't know the answer. I suspect the only reason in this case is lack of attraction, because there are no taboos about heterosexuality.

I'm not meaning to hijack your thread here, but I'm kind of surprised at this comment in this day and age.

You're 23.  From other posts that you have written, I'm going to go on the information that you've given that you are not a virgin.  Seriously, the day after you lost your virginity, did you literally wake up as a different person?  Tell Me what it was that changed about you as a human being because you engaged in the act of having sex for the first time.

I'm darn near two decades older than you.  The whole 'I'm a man/woman (depending on gender) now because I got laid' thing was foolishness years ago.  It really surprises Me that someone of your generation might think that way.

One other thing.  If you wouldn't mind terribly, could you change your phrasing a bit in the future?  There's something about your use of "a gay" rather than just "gay" that's a bit off putting.  Thank you.







Jeffff -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 2:54:25 PM)

Come to Chicago, I 'll make a man out of you!




LadyPact -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 2:59:00 PM)

Bend over.  I'll bet I've got something that is just like the real thing.

Is it live, or is it Memorex?




SocratesNot -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 3:14:29 PM)

quote:

Seriously, the day after you lost your virginity, did you literally wake up as a different person?


A little, but not drastically. I mostly felt relaxed because I finally did it. But this is not the same thing. Everyone is expected to lose virginity, while people usually frown upon homosexual relationships.
Even some homosexuals find it hard to accept their orientation and feel guilty and insecure about it and many have issues because of their orientation.
Why would I as a heterosexual, want to toy with all these emotional things and why would I need to have such a memory of sleeping with a man?

If I didn't like it - it would be a bad memory - which is not good.
If I liked it - I would start wondering if I am bisexual or gay and this would be very stressful to me - which is also not good.
Anyway, I would somewhat guilty and I would lose some of my self-respect, even if I didn't intend it. Cultural brainwashing is too strong to be ignored, even if we are aware of its presence.




littlewonder -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 3:37:36 PM)

I'm at an age in my life where I can say there are things I will never ever do or feel.

I will never be bisexual. Why? I'm completely and utterly hetero. Women do zilch for me. I find no attraction to them whatsoever and the times I've been with women due to the nature of being a slave, I found it repulsive.


I will never ever be turned on by topping or domming. Been there done that and I almost had a nervous breakdown. I just couldn't handle it and panicked and I shut down completely.

I will never be attracted to a man who submits or has. I find dominant men to be incredibly hot and that's what turns me on. If Master woke up one day and said he wanted to submit or bottom it would destroy our relationship. I would see him as someone completely different and not the man who took me. It would be like someone switched his personality. I'm not attracted to all types of men, just certain types of men thanks.

I will never ever be into poly or swinging. I've tried it and it left me broken. It's not me. It's not who I am and not something I have any interest in at all. I just can't handle it.

I can name tons of other things as well but those are just the tip of iceberg and I can say these things with complete reassurance because over the many years I've learned who I am and and what I am and what I need and desire in life.





LadyAngelika -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 3:38:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

In My way of thinking, I try not to say never.  All things are possible.  Highly, very highly improbable, but not completely impossible.


This pretty much sums it up for me.

- LA




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