RE: Never ever. Ever!!!

RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (Full Version)

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LadyAngelika -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 3:39:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Bend over. I'll bet I've got something that is just like the real thing. Is it live, or is it Memorex? Wrong. Technically better than the real thing as it never goes limp ;-) - LA

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 3:51:07 PM)
Some folks will. Some folks will not. Hickory dickory dock, the cow jumped over the moon. Go ask Alice. Most importantly, Three Blind Mice....

LadyPact -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 4:34:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot A little, but not drastically. I mostly felt relaxed because I finally did it. But this is not the same thing. Everyone is expected to lose virginity, while people usually frown upon homosexual relationships. Even some homosexuals find it hard to accept their orientation and feel guilty and insecure about it and many have issues because of their orientation. Why would I as a heterosexual, want to toy with all these emotional things and why would I need to have such a memory of sleeping with a man? If I didn't like it - it would be a bad memory - which is not good. If I liked it - I would start wondering if I am bisexual or gay and this would be very stressful to me - which is also not good. Anyway, I would somewhat guilty and I would lose some of my self-respect, even if I didn't intend it. Cultural brainwashing is too strong to be ignored, even if we are aware of its presence. At the same time, you are aware of it. That means that it was something that was taught. While it's very difficult to try to remove that from your thinking pattern because it is literally that ingrained, I believe it's worth attempting. Whether you see it or not, your answer about losing your virginity is the very same thing. There really is still a cultural influence, being male, that is a societal expectation. You felt relieved because you had lived up to the supposed standard somehow. If that standard didn't exist or you were never influenced by it in some way, the feelings about it wouldn't have been the same. For someone who often reflects on how worried they are about being brainwashed by a Dominant person, you don't even see that society brainwashed you about the subject, and you bought it. Oh, don't get Me wrong. While I'm probably one of the more vocal people regarding why male bi-sexuality is one of the few areas where people haven't really caught up in thinking, those taboos actually work well to My advantage. In My opinion, one of the hottest things on the planet is to get Myself someone who is an oral virgin when it comes to the same gender and watch him face his own fears and unlearn everything he's learned regarding an act. You can decide if that's power and control or not.

DomImus -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 5:06:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: windchymes Okay, so based on the number of threads you have started, the amount of controvery you have enjoyed stirring up so much, and how dead the horse is that you keep beating, why is THIS stuff so important to you, even though it's been accepted and practiced happily by most of the people who frequent this forum? Let it go already. Read and learn and accept that everyone has their likes and dislikes, and stop yammering. Based on the way so many people so dutifully line up to argue with this guy at every turn I would say he owns this forum. A true dominant.

Andalusite -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 6:25:36 PM)
For a few years, I was very vehement that I was not submissive, and was not interested in submitting to anyone. I don't think I used the word "never," but I felt very strongly about it. The reason was that I was fine with bottoming, but hadn't experienced submission, and it really offended me and made me feel awkward when people claimed that I was submitting when I knew that I wasn't. I got rather defensive, and very annoyed that they felt that they knew what I was experiencing better than I did. It was very similar to if they had claimed that I'd orgasmed when I hadn't - it would feel like a lie to not disagree with them. The first time I did submit rather than just bottoming, it caught my entirely by surprise. So far, I've never felt dominant and submissive toward the same person. I'm not opposed to the idea, and I won't say that it will never happen, but I won't date anyone who would require that of their partner. To me, power exchange is not the same thing as S/M, and I can't just conjure up those emotions and responses toward someone "temporarily" or otherwise. I generally don't have any problem with switching on a top/bottom basis, but usually am not drawn to it with someone who I have a power exchange dynamic with. My femsub playpartner is a fairly new switch, and I let her try fireplay on me during a class. Doing a whole scene with her topping me, or switching back and forth between topping and bottoming, just doesn't really appeal to either of us, though I've done so with other people before. I'm not into casual sex, so I won't get involved with someone who wants that from me. Likewise for lots of other things, on both kink and vanilla levels. Some things are more flexible, and it depends on the mindset, such as humiliation play and feminization.

Jeffff -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 6:42:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Bend over. I'll bet I've got something that is just like the real thing. Is it live, or is it Memorex? Not exactly what I had in mind...

domiguy -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/14/2010 7:23:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact At the same time, you are aware of it. That means that it was something that was taught. While it's very difficult to try to remove that from your thinking pattern because it is literally that ingrained, I believe it's worth attempting. Whether you see it or not, your answer about losing your virginity is the very same thing. There really is still a cultural influence, being male, that is a societal expectation. You felt relieved because you had lived up to the supposed standard somehow. If that standard didn't exist or you were never influenced by it in some way, the feelings about it wouldn't have been the same. For someone who often reflects on how worried they are about being brainwashed by a Dominant person, you don't even see that society brainwashed you about the subject, and you bought it. Oh, don't get Me wrong. While I'm probably one of the more vocal people regarding why male bi-sexuality is one of the few areas where people haven't really caught up in thinking, those taboos actually work well to My advantage. In My opinion, one of the hottest things on the planet is to get Myself someone who is an oral virgin when it comes to the same gender and watch him face his own fears and unlearn everything he's learned regarding an act. You can decide if that's power and control or not. It's nothing. You are overestimating your own power...Typical Domme shit. You are only taking your lil' cute subby boys to that place that they are dying to go. What subby boy doesn't want to spend time slobbering on cock? It's their density.

LadyPact -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 6:13:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy It's nothing. You are overestimating your own power...Typical Domme shit. You are only taking your lil' cute subby boys to that place that they are dying to go. What subby boy doesn't want to spend time slobbering on cock? It's their density. Get real, Dude. Are you going to sit there and say that the only time you enjoy watching one girl go down on another is if she doesn't like the idea? Nah. I didn't think so.

peppermint -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 8:53:15 AM)
quote: Everyone is expected to lose virginity Not everyone is expected to lose virginity. What you said is a totally false just any "all" statements when they apply to people.

PeonForHer -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 9:19:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: peppermint quote: Everyone is expected to lose virginity Not everyone is expected to lose virginity. What you said is a totally false just any "all" statements when they apply to people. Are there people using this site who are virgins and don't expect ever to use their virginity? Wow!

peppermint -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 12:26:07 PM)
quote: Are there people using this site who are virgins and don't expect ever to use their virginity? Wow! Excuse me. I didn't notice that Soc qualified his "everyone" and meant only those people using this site. However, even then I would never assume that EVERYONE on this site expects to lose their virginity. You know what they say about assume. When Soc said everyone I assumed he meant all people. I guess we can argue that everyone and all mean two entirely two different ideas, however, I'll pass on that argument at this time. I do not believe that nuns expect to lose their virginity ever. I do not believe monks expect to lose their virginity ever. Even taking into consideration the child abuse cases in the Catholic church, I do not believe that all clerics, every priest, monk, and nun believe they will lose their virginity. Perhaps I am wrong in my beliefs which is possible. Since I have not interviewed every priest, nun, and monk I may very well be in error. If I am I will apologize to Soc when he can prove to me that EVERYONE expects to lost their virginity. Until then I will keep believing that his statement is not true.

laurell3 -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 12:29:22 PM)
Actually I had a male sub contact me when I was looking that was in his 40's and still a virgin with every intention of staying that way. By virgin I mean he had never had sex with another, he had with himself. Needless to say, while I found it fascinating, I had to decline his offers of service. That was one "never" I just wasn't prepared to take on. I have no idea if he's on this site.

SocratesNot -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 12:32:04 PM)
quote: When Soc said everyone I assumed he meant all people. I guess we can argue that everyone and all mean two entirely two different ideas, however, I'll pass on that argument at this time. I do not believe that nuns expect to lose their virginity ever. I do not believe monks expect to lose their virginity ever. Even taking into consideration the child abuse cases in the Catholic church, I do not believe that all clerics, every priest, monk, and nun believe they will lose their virginity. Perhaps I am wrong in my beliefs which is possible. Since I have not interviewed every priest, nun, and monk I may very well be in error. If I am I will apologize to Soc when he can prove to me that EVERYONE expects to lost their virginity. Until then I will keep believing that his statement is not true. I am really wondering why people insist on literal interpretation of my every word. Yes, almost everyone is expected to lose virginity - even nuns and monks - however they deliberately go against societal expectations and decide to live the life of abstinence for spiritual reasons.

laurell3 -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 12:37:20 PM)
Words are all we have here, chose yours more carefully if you don't mean to sound so extreme and judgmental.

PeonForHer -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 12:42:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: peppermint Excuse me. I didn't notice that Soc qualified his "everyone" and meant only those people using this site. However, even then I would never assume that EVERYONE on this site expects to lose their virginity. You know what they say about assume. OK, fair enough. It's quite possible to imagine that a few people might have the specific kink of not wanting to lose their virginity; moreover, that they might even be using this site. Well, why not?

PeonForHer -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 12:49:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 Words are all we have here, chose yours more carefully if you don't mean to sound so extreme and judgmental. In fairness to SN, and having followed various of his threads, it does seem that many people here seem to see moral judgements in what he writes where I, for one, can't see them at all. I didn't think he meant 'everyone in the world' re that 'perpetual virginity' issue, for example.

peppermint -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 12:50:13 PM)
quote: OK, fair enough. It's quite possible to imagine that a few people might have the specific kink of not wanting to lose their virginity; moreover, that they might even be using this site. Well, why not? As laurell just pointed out, it's not only possible, it has happened on this site.

PeonForHer -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 12:52:59 PM)
Actually, she said she didn't know if the virgin man she'd met was on this site.

laurell3 -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 12:59:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 Words are all we have here, chose yours more carefully if you don't mean to sound so extreme and judgmental. In fairness to SN, and having followed various of his threads, it does seem that many people here seem to see moral judgements in what he writes where I, for one, can't see them at all. I didn't think he meant 'everyone in the world' re that 'perpetual virginity' issue, for example. I agree in this instance, but overall I do think he tends to state things in such a fashion that implies absolutism and judgement. Like it or not, the response is pretty long-standing and well known to those types of statements. Avoiding them isn't that difficult. The simple truth is all and never don't work most of the time. The vast majority of things you can imagine, people do in some form or fashion. At most you may have alls and nevers for yourself, but history has shown me that even that may end up being untrue when you are actually in the situations that you only imagined before. In the context of wiitwd, I do have nevers, they are few, but they are things that I believe keep me safe and emotionally healthy. I also will never do something that I think would put him in a position where it would compromise the relationship for us.

peppermint -> RE: Never ever. Ever!!! (6/15/2010 1:01:10 PM)
quote: I am really wondering why people insist on literal interpretation of my every word. Yes, almost everyone is expected to lose virginity - even nuns and monks - however they deliberately go against societal expectations and decide to live the life of abstinence for spiritual reasons. YOU made the statement. If you did not mean what you said then you should have said what you meant to say. How can I read your mind and realize that when you said everyone you meant almost everyone? You have admitted that you can't read minds or know someone's personal reasons for doing or being what they are. Yet you expect me to read your mind? I was stunned to realize that nuns and monks and priests are expected by society to not abstain. You certainly have brought some very disturbing statements to this board today. I do expect that nuns, monks, and priests do expect to be abstinent even though it may be a difficult thing to achieve. I would NEVER expect a nun to lose her virginity nor do I believe that society expects that.

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