RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks

RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (Full Version)

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RCdc -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 2:45:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross But you either own your body or you don't. I agree with this bit - however... quote: I really don't see a difference between this and allowing someone to smoke cigarettes. Now see, I do. Someone who is allowed to smoke, may not be doing so to be more attractive. If a person smokes because of addiction, then they do not own their body technically. the.dark.

porcelaine -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 2:47:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Well, the interesting thing that I found in speaking with her is that this is not something that is being fueled by something within her, the weight loss that is. Her only motivator here seems to be her desire to please him. In fact, she said that she thinks her weight now makes her look very sick. She said that they have been together for just over a year and prior to that she had no history of any eating disorder and weighed 145 when she met him. So it would seem to me that a lot of the common mindset found in anorexia is not there. I honestly don't know how you could convince yourself to override the body and mind's natural sense of self preservation, which I figure has to be screaming pretty loudy at this point in her...although I don't know that for sure. Although an eating disorder wasn't present, it is probable she has the behaviors that would allow it to manifest and take hold. Pro-ana and mia followers are extremely disciplined and completely committed to their goal. You'd have to be in possession of a severe degree of self denial to pull this off. The dominant is merely the conduit in her case. But it really comes back to her. She could get food if she wanted to, but she chooses not to do so. The desire to please coupled with her own ability to deny herself in exchange for him allows it to continue. And you must take into account her previous views on the body. Perhaps the attributes were dormant and she lacked the ability to put them into play. Which is the self-preservation you spoke of. We've been conditioned to view the behavior as unhealthy and wrong, but that idea would have to be offset with a new mindset for implementation. If we're going with the idea of manipulation (on some level) he'd imprint his ideal in her head with imagery. Most people would find the emaciated form very disturbing, but they celebrate it. It's lauded. She didn't need a support network at home. She can find an army of them on the Internet. Much like traditional sufferers she's got King Kong on her back. Getting him off is going to be far harder than pulling him on ever was. ~porcelaine

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 3:04:01 PM)
~FR~ Personally, I think this is batshit. The woman is going to die, and not even at her own hand. Not the sign of good mental health for anyone involved. At the same time, we own our bodies, and IMO should be able to use them as we see fit. I am sorry that she's chosen destruction.

BlackTigerDragon -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 3:29:25 PM)
I'm going to be completely honest. There are relationshits (an calling them 'relationships' is like calling a dog as forklift) that are abusive. We all know what to do when we know someone suffering in one of those: We give them the opportunity to get out. This one is different as for some retarded reason she wants to STAY in this relationship because 'it's BDSM! lol'. So then you can't get her out like you would in other abusive relatioshits. You have to TAKE her out whether she likes it or not! Her 'Master' is literally KILLING her! And once she is out, put her in a home for the mentally challenged or something. It's a very simple concept: What happens when you don't eat? I don't know...maybe something like...DIE? If this 'slave' and this 'Master' have not figured that out by now (she's 20!) then that is a classic symptom of an appallingly low IQ and they should not have the mental capacity to hold a basic conversation let alone have whatever the fuck that is they call a 'relationship'. One of them needs help from people who can speak very slowly and loudly to them. Possibly both of them. 'Kink' or not. This cannot continue. The 'Master' is a threat to society.

LadyCimarron -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 3:33:26 PM)
I don't think that the Master should go to jail. I can order my slave to go on a killing spree, its still his choice as to whether or not he does it. I for one am kind of getting tired of this mentality that if someone is choosing to be a slave it absolves them of reason and personal responsibility. A Dom can be an asshole but to be effective, the slave has got to be willing to be led by that asshole. One thing I think we can all agree on is that in this lifestyle we seek out people who feed our need. Sadists seek out masochists- the yin for our yang. So if one chooses to serve a Master who orders you to steal and you do it, I HAVE to believe that there was already a thief in you and that's why you chose a Master thief. Likewise if this woman's Master tells her to starve herself to death and she does it, she does not have a problem with her Master, she has a problem with herself. No he should not be encouraging it, but it was already somewhere in her and SHE is the only one to blame and she is the only one who can save her own life.

xXsoumisXx -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 3:37:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron I don't think that the Master should go to jail. I can order my slave to go on a killing spree, its still his choice as to whether or not he does it. I for one am kind of getting tired of this mentality that if someone is choosing to be a slave it absolves them of reason and personal responsibility. A Dom can be an asshole but to be effective, the slave has got to be willing to be led by that asshole. One thing I think we can all agree on is that in this lifestyle we seek out people who feed our need. Sadists seek out masochists- the yin for our yang. So if one chooses to serve a Master who orders you to steal and you do it, I HAVE to believe that there was already a thief in you and that's why you chose a Master thief. Likewise if this woman's Master tells her to starve herself to death and she does it, she does not have a problem with her Master, she has a problem with herself. No he should not be encouraging it, but it was already somewhere in her and SHE is the only one to blame and she is the only one who can save her own life. I agree with this for the most part. However, there a certain headspace, a certain very strong desire to please that, in some situations, can lead to a sub/slave to do things they would not otherwise do, in order to please Him/Her. The deisre to please is very strong sometimes, and can override common sense.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 3:40:29 PM)
For those of you following The Shadow---I mean PLASTICINE's thread on motives in the Master zone---THIS behavior on the part of a dom is manipulation. In spades.

marie2 -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 3:42:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin but do you view pro-ana and/or pro-mia as what you would consider to be kinks? Do those things have a place (in your mind) under the umbrella of BDSM? Yes. and Yes. Anything off the beat and path that a person chooses to practice because it fulfills them on some level can be considered a kink. From a non-emotional, objective standpoint, no matter how crazy, how unsafe or purely insane this would seem, if this is how the girl wants to live, if pleasing this man THIS way is what fulfills her, even if it's causing her to be in poor health, then I can't see it being any different than people who risk their lives via breath play or other risky practices that come under the bdsm umbrella. If we say this is wrong, this is sick, this isn't a kink, this is where the line has to be drawn, we'd have to draw that line for people who risk their lives by eating feces, or those who enjoy getting cut, we'd have to draw the line at breathplay because that can cause instant death, we'd have to draw the line at knife play, people can even be killed, hurt, or paralyzed from a faulty suspension, and on and on and on. There's only one way to judge this situation as wrong, and that's to judge the rest of the risky stuff as wrong too. If we start to pick and choose when and where to judge...then we are right back to "my kink is ok but yours isn't", "my risk is sane, but yours isn't" "my reasons are valid but yours aren't" And we can't conveniently pull it out of the "kink" category, just so we can get away with judging it. No. If this is what gets her off, if this is her bent, and this is how she wants to live, and if this is the risk she is comfortable taking, and she is even willing to possibly die in the name of her slavery. Then so be it. Whether or not I think it's crazy is irrelevant. There is absolutely no logical argument that can be made to condemn this while we support other highly risky behaviors that bdmers practice.

SocratesNot -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 3:51:06 PM)
quote: There's only one way to judge this situation as wrong, and that's to judge the rest of the risky stuff as wrong too. I recommend using this approach - everything that is risky is wrong - at least as long as the risks are greater than possible benefits. Maybe not the best approach, but better than your approach of absolute tolerance even to things such as snuff, etc.

angelikaJ -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 3:59:04 PM)
If things don't change soon she is going to die. So, I am not sure if his kink is the way she looks or that her level of devotion is such that she is willing to follow instructions that will ultimately lead to her death. Her body fat is long gone and the daily carbs and little bit of protien she gets weekly is keeping her brain functioning for now but her body is using her muscle tissue for fuel, including that of her heart. She is making the decision to follow his wishes but does she really understand what the outcome is going to be? Does he? The way I have always viewed D/s relationships is that owners shouldn't break their toys...and that is one of the qualities I looked for. I have actually become anorexic in the last several months. In my case it is the result of the side effects of two different medications and it does concern my Owner. He makes sure that my diet is more or less balanced and also that I have access to easy to fix quick meals since I don't really feel much like cooking/eating anything. He has no issues with the 30+ lbs I have dropped, but he is keeping an eye on things to make sure I am staying healthy.

marie2 -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 4:00:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: There's only one way to judge this situation as wrong, and that's to judge the rest of the risky stuff as wrong too. I recommend using this approach - everything that is risky is wrong - at least as long as the risks are greater than possible benefits. Maybe not the best approach, but better than your approach of absolute tolerance even to things such as snuff, etc. I didn't mention tolerance of snuff. I spoke of consentual behaviors that people choose to engage in for whatever their reasons.

porcelaine -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 4:09:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xXsoumisXx However, there a certain headspace, a certain very strong desire to please that, in some situations, can lead to a sub/slave to do things they would not otherwise do, in order to please Him/Her. The deisre to please is very strong sometimes, and can override common sense. I don't think this has anything to do with her slavery in all honesty. And I've never met a lazy anorexic or bulimic in my life. They spend a lot of time keeping the machine running. Energy most wouldn't devote to something they'd view as self-destructive, yet for them the destruction is the goal or at the very least they want to come as close as possible. There's a specific look they're seeking -- a certain visible rib count that's preferred. Don't forget the exercise. They do it excessively. They're better at calorie counting than a dietitian. From what I recall 600-800 per day is ideal. In all truth it isn't that hard if you have the traits. You only need the right push to get going if you're unwilling to do so without it. I think LadyCimarron is correct. This is something she already had within her. The relationship simply gave her an excuse to do something she wouldn't do on her own. I can't lay this on the dominant. She's just as culpable. And no matter what she didn't walk away. Someone vehemently opposed to this would have done so. She stayed instead. ~porcelaine

SocratesNot -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 4:13:20 PM)
quote: I spoke of consentual behaviors that people choose to engage in for whatever their reasons. There is also the thing called consensual homicide. I do not approve of it, and it seems that you do.

marie2 -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 4:27:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: I spoke of consentual behaviors that people choose to engage in for whatever their reasons. There is also the thing called consensual homicide. I do not approve of it, and it seems that you do. I didn't speak to what I approve of. So please do not speak for me. Specific questions were asked in the OP, and those are what I responded to. The op did specifically say that she was not looking for our feelings on this particular case. She asked if we see the instant case as a case of "kink". That is what I addressed, and I explained why I see it the way I do. Had the question been "Do you think this is smart?" "Do you approve of this?", "Do you think this man cares about her", "Do you see this as wise mastery?" , my response would have been completely different. And now I'm done explaining myself with regards to your misinterpretations.

SocratesNot -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 4:32:02 PM)
quote: Had the question been "Do you think this is smart?" "Do you approve of this?", "Do you think this man cares about her", "Do you see this as wise mastery?" , my response would have been completely different. And now I'm done explaining myself with regards to your misinterpretations. If I find the issue emotionally disturbing I will choose to respond with emotions and not in cold objective way. We are talking about real life, not theory. Sometimes even if their questions is theoretical, it's better to answer in practical and humane way.

January -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 4:32:32 PM)
mistoferin, Why do you believe the slave is conversing with you? Is she looking to shock you? Get help from you? What drove her to contact you in the first place? Has she revealed her motivation to reach outside to contact you? Frankly, when you first described the situation, I thought she was a BSer. (Not you, the slave). Partly because she's so eager to send you photos and describe her meals, I'm still not convinced she's real. If she is real, I'm not convinced that her master ordered her to eat so little. I mean, who got her to the hospital? Who is weighing her? Who is taking pictures of her? January

marie2 -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 4:49:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: Had the question been "Do you think this is smart?" "Do you approve of this?", "Do you think this man cares about her", "Do you see this as wise mastery?" , my response would have been completely different. And now I'm done explaining myself with regards to your misinterpretations. If I find the issue emotionally disturbing I will choose to respond with emotions and not in cold objective way. We are talking about real life, not theory. Sometimes even if their questions is theoretical, it's better to answer in practical and humane way. You may answer in whatever way you see fit. You certainly do not owe me an explanation. Thanks. And have a great night.

leadership527 -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 4:57:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron I don't think that the Master should go to jail. I can order my slave to go on a killing spree, its still his choice as to whether or not he does it. My life isn't quite that simple. If I were to (for god only knows hat stupid reasons... demonic posession perhaps) decide to starve Carol, I could easily land her in the hospital at least once and I don't think she would've had much "choice" along the way. This is what happens when an extremely submissive personality gets in intimate contact with an extremely dominant one. quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 There's only one way to judge this situation as wrong, and that's to judge the rest of the risky stuff as wrong too. Not true. As I understand the story, there's been multiple hospitalizations. Who paid for them? What? That faceless "insurance"?? I can judge this as wrong simply because I'd rather not pay for their kink.

porcelaine -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 5:08:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: January Frankly, when you first described the situation, I thought she was a BSer. (Not you, the slave). Partly because she's so eager to send you photos and describe her meals, I'm still not convinced she's real. If she is real, I'm not convinced that her master ordered her to eat so little. I mean, who got her to the hospital? Who is weighing her? Who is taking pictures of her? Good catch. At that weight she'd be a lethargic couch potato. Assuming the images aren't lifted from a pro-ana site and the story is legitimate -- you're probably talking to him. ~porcelaine

Elisabella -> RE: Pro-ana and pro-mia as kinks (6/17/2010 5:09:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus ~FR~ Personally, I think this is batshit. The woman is going to die, and not even at her own hand. Not the sign of good mental health for anyone involved. At the same time, we own our bodies, and IMO should be able to use them as we see fit. I am sorry that she's chosen destruction. This is pretty much how I feel about it. People have the right to destroy themselves if they want to. The cold unfeeling heartless bitch side of me wouldn't even be too fussed if she did manage to starve herself to death. What good would be done by saving her - even if someone managed to prevent her from starving herself to death it wouldn't change the fact that at the moment she is the sort of person who is willing to kill herself because some guy wants her to. I feel bad for those people who care about her and all, but this quote by BlackTigerDragon disgusts me far more than an anorexia kink: "You have to TAKE her out whether she likes it or not! Her 'Master' is literally KILLING her! And once she is out, put her in a home for the mentally challenged or something. " I don't see how it's better to chain someone to a wall that's propping them up when everything in nature dictates that they should fall down. She'll either figure out that she's being an idiot or she won't. And as a side note, if this person was someone I cared about, yeah I'd try to intervene, but only to a point. But I'd intervene as a person, who cares about another person, not out of any sense of moral superiority. And if the person I cared about made it clear they didn't want my help, I'd try really hard to accept that. IMO the question is - do we have a "right" to a long and healthy life, or do we have a responsibility to lead one even if we don't want to?

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