RE: Kneeling before slaves

RE: Kneeling before slaves (Full Version)

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DisenchantedLife -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:29:32 AM)
Not to jump into things with out my shovel and boots on... But First. Wikipedia? ANYONE can write it. I could go change that right this second to say that ALL Societies are matriarchal. There is nothing on Wikipedia that you should take for fact. I always take it as a general idea and if I want to know with out a doubt - I go some where else. As my college professor once said Wikipedia is NOT a source. Onto your source. While it says there are NO KNOWN societies that are completely matriarchal... it also says "although there a number of attested matriliniear, matrilocal societies" and down at the bottom "Strongly matrilocal societies sometimes are referred to as matrifocal, and there is some debate concerning the terminological delineation between matrifocality and matriarchy." Granted there are several LARGE words in there I'd have to look up to be sure of the definition. I'm getting that matrilocal, matrifocal, and matriarchy mean close to the same thing. Sounds like there are to me.... with this source.

BentUnit -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:30:33 AM)
Such a ritual of kneeling before your sub while you DEMAND that she sit and accept it is meaningful to you only. What is meaningful for you is NOT meaningful for her and quite frankly you expecting to dictate the way she views or feels about it is frankly so far outside RL interactions that it just boggles the mind. You do not demand even a sub to feel love from a ceremony that has no meaning or value to her. Honestly you may as well be brushing your teeth rather than kneeling on the floor because they would mean the same thing to the sub. You may force her body to sit calmly enough, and quietly enough while you go through the motions but it's going to mean fuck all to her.

SocratesNot -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:31:49 AM)
quote: Men who are dominant over me have no need to give me orders. I've known several men over the years who could totally relaxed sit kneeling at my feet butt naked with me in full Dominatrix fetish gear and ask me is a calm, soft voice "would you please be so kind to go get me a cup of coffee" or even "I'm going to get a cup of coffee, would you like one too?" and yet AT THE SAME TIME still be totally, absolutely, without a hint of a doubt be unconditionally dominant towards me, and inspire my submission in way you cannot even imagine. I think you romanticize this a bit. To me it seems that you imagine him as having some sort of telepathic energy or ability to dominate you just with his willpower without even saying anything. Maybe some people have that kind of charisma, but you are exaggerating a little.

DisenchantedLife -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:33:55 AM)
quote: {a dag is slang for someone who can be silly or make you roll your eyes at them in an "omg what the hell are they doing now kind of way"} Oh oh oh oh I know!! Like the Australian band............. The Wiggles!! lol

wandersalone -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:34:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: Men who are dominant over me have no need to give me orders. I've known several men over the years who could totally relaxed sit kneeling at my feet butt naked with me in full Dominatrix fetish gear and ask me is a calm, soft voice "would you please be so kind to go get me a cup of coffee" or even "I'm going to get a cup of coffee, would you like one too?" and yet AT THE SAME TIME still be totally, absolutely, without a hint of a doubt be unconditionally dominant towards me, and inspire my submission in way you cannot even imagine. I think you romanticize this a bit. To me it seems that you imagine him as having some sort of telepathic energy or ability to dominate you just with his willpower without even saying anything. Maybe some people have that kind of charisma, but you are exaggerating a little. Do you not see any irony in your words here? You are telling a woman who has served as a real life slave that she is exaggerating. Of the two of you I know which person I would believe

SocratesNot -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:38:57 AM)
quote: Such a ritual of kneeling before your sub while you DEMAND that she sit and accept it is meaningful to you only. What is meaningful for you is NOT meaningful for her and quite frankly you expecting to dictate the way she views or feels about it is frankly so far outside RL interactions that it just boggles the mind. You do not demand even a sub to feel love from a ceremony that has no meaning or value to her. Honestly you may as well be brushing your teeth rather than kneeling on the floor because they would mean the same thing to the sub. You may force her body to sit calmly enough, and quietly enough while you go through the motions but it's going to mean fuck all to her. I'd like to ask why are people so quick to become confrontational to me. I would very clearly describe to her what is the point of this ritual, so she would understand. I have heard about things that are much more big deal which dominants ask their slaves to do, and yet, there is even no need to explanation. So, if this would please me, why would this be so hard for her, and why would this be meaningless to her if this has a meaning for me. Isn't one of the greatest desires of subs to please their dominants? If this would please me, why would this be meaningless to her? I don't understand at all.

BloodLustDaddy -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:40:13 AM)
SocratesNot, this a loosing battle and everyone here is trying to HELP you, not attack your thoughts or ideals. Sometimes the best thing you can do in life is accept the advice of others who have more experience then you do. It is not about control, not about forcing, not about being a dom, sub, slave, babygirl, daddy, master, puppy, kitty, top, bottom, tom, dick or harry.. in the end those are just words used to describe a personality tenancy and preference. Never let a title or label dictate your actions... So what IS it? It is an interaction between two (or more) consenting adults who have a need or desire that they feel the other person can fill. Even if its just a 'one night stand spank me tickle you friend fuck' its an interaction that should feed into the needs and desires of all involved... A command is just a question without the '?' :P In the end she will either do it or not based on her personal desires, needs and respect for you. The more respect you earn by showing with actions and speaking truthfully the more things she will be willing to do at your 'order sounding request'. Force tends to be answered by force (the police force in most cases).

SocratesNot -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:41:24 AM)
quote: Wikipedia? ANYONE can write it. I could go change that right this second to say that ALL Societies are matriarchal. There is nothing on Wikipedia that you should take for fact. I always take it as a general idea and if I want to know with out a doubt - I go some where else. As my college professor once said Wikipedia is NOT a source. Most of the Wikipedia articles mention the sources - if you don't believe Wikipedia, check up the sources.

BentUnit -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:42:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wandersalone quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: Men who are dominant over me have no need to give me orders. I've known several men over the years who could totally relaxed sit kneeling at my feet butt naked with me in full Dominatrix fetish gear and ask me is a calm, soft voice "would you please be so kind to go get me a cup of coffee" or even "I'm going to get a cup of coffee, would you like one too?" and yet AT THE SAME TIME still be totally, absolutely, without a hint of a doubt be unconditionally dominant towards me, and inspire my submission in way you cannot even imagine. I think you romanticize this a bit. To me it seems that you imagine him as having some sort of telepathic energy or ability to dominate you just with his willpower without even saying anything. Maybe some people have that kind of charisma, but you are exaggerating a little. Do you not see any irony in your words here? You are telling a woman who has served as a real life slave that she is exaggerating. Of the two of you I know which person I would believe It's frustrating isn't, Wandersalone. People with real life experience have stepped up to the plate and shown no end of patience in giving him considered answers and yet noting sticks. I vote we re-name him "TEFLON". Explaining real life human interactions to him is as productive as explaining Quantum Physics to a cow. (at least we would get milk out of the cow once we were done explaining).

Ishtarr -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:42:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: Men who are dominant over me have no need to give me orders. I've known several men over the years who could totally relaxed sit kneeling at my feet butt naked with me in full Dominatrix fetish gear and ask me is a calm, soft voice "would you please be so kind to go get me a cup of coffee" or even "I'm going to get a cup of coffee, would you like one too?" and yet AT THE SAME TIME still be totally, absolutely, without a hint of a doubt be unconditionally dominant towards me, and inspire my submission in way you cannot even imagine. I think you romanticize this a bit. To me it seems that you imagine him as having some sort of telepathic energy or ability to dominate you just with his willpower without even saying anything. Maybe some people have that kind of charisma, but you are exaggerating a little. This past weekend my best friend and me went to Chicago to meet a couple of dominant men that we are now currently involved with. These fine gentlemen took us out for a night on the town and of course we dressed to kill for them. My friend, who isn't used to wearing high heels ended up being in considerable pain because of her footwear. This resulted in a "scene" where she, her man and me were outside of the club smoking and him deciding to kneel at her feet on the sidewalk at 3am and massage her feet, with me standing over them both and her sitting down on a flowerbed-thingy. At no point in time was he not in complete control of the situation and at no point in time was there ANY doubt in anybodies mind about this. The fact that he was in a pose of absolute submission, in public, performing what is generally considered to be a submissive act changed NOTHING about the fact the HE was the one in control. She, nor I, nor he doubted that for even a second. The situation I mentioned in my earlier post is unlikely to ever happen, but should it ever happen, I would likewise have NO doubt whatsoever about who is in control and who is not. You are STILL making D/s about actions, instead of about interactions, reactions and control.

DisenchantedLife -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:42:45 AM)
No she's not Snot. I completely understand what she's saying. It really isn't about the actions the words... the whatevers. Its about the chemistry between two people. Its late, I am tired and I do not have the words to express what these ladies are trying to express. Its not not something tangible. It just is. Anyways, I wanted to chime in that what ahe said isnt romanticizing onr bit

laurell3 -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:47:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot I'd like to ask why are people so quick to become confrontational to me. Because you never listen or learn.

SocratesNot -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:48:29 AM)
quote: At no point in time was he not in complete control of the situation and at no point in time was there ANY doubt in anybodies mind about this. The fact that he was in a pose of absolute submission, in public, performing what is generally considered to be a submissive act changed NOTHING about the fact the HE was the one in control. She, nor I, nor he doubted that for even a second. The situation I mentioned in my earlier post is unlikely to ever happen, but should it ever happen, I would likewise have NO doubt whatsoever about who is in control and who is not. You are STILL making D/s about actions, instead of about interactions, reactions and control. No, I don't think it is about acts and actions and poses, and even in the OP, I clearly emphasized that even if I knelt before her, I would be in control. The point of the thread was that I felt that some subs would find it weird, or even distressing to see their Masters on their knees, EVEN IF HE WAS IN FULL CONTROL ALL THE TIME. Maybe I am wrong about that assumption, which is based on this woman that stated this on the forum, and she also claimed to be in long term M/s relationship, so she is not like me inexperienced - if she is lying , I am lying too.

IronBear -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:51:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Actually, such a gesture isn't that weird at all. All the traditional societies were patriarchal. So men were heads of the household and men made decisions. However - there were lots of rules of chivalry and by abiding to those rules men showed their respect and devotion to their ladies. Even today, the man falls to his knees when proposing a woman. In the past it was common for men to kiss hands of women, etc... And all of that was possible in strictly patriarchal society. This is a basic concept which is also the Victorian Lifestyle. So old son, these gestures like kissing a Lady's Hand, holding accharir for her, standing when she enters the room, tipping the hat on frst meeting and so on are all part of what we do and is natural for us (I was brought up in this). It is good manners, it is chivalry, it is what a gentleman does without thinking. Soo old lad I would not hesitate to kneel and pay my respects to a slave who had earned it by going above and beyond her duty. It would be without expectation and if the slave didn't handle it well I would understand that this was so far from what she may expect it may have shaken her. She would survive this shock. LOL

laurell3 -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:53:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: At no point in time was he not in complete control of the situation and at no point in time was there ANY doubt in anybodies mind about this. The fact that he was in a pose of absolute submission, in public, performing what is generally considered to be a submissive act changed NOTHING about the fact the HE was the one in control. She, nor I, nor he doubted that for even a second. The situation I mentioned in my earlier post is unlikely to ever happen, but should it ever happen, I would likewise have NO doubt whatsoever about who is in control and who is not. You are STILL making D/s about actions, instead of about interactions, reactions and control. No, I don't think it is about acts and actions and poses, and even in the OP, I clearly emphasized that even if I knelt before here, I would be in control. The point of the thread was that I felt that some subs would find it weird, or even distressing to see their Masters on their knees, EVEN IF HE WAS IN FULL CONTROL ALL THE TIME. Maybe I am wrong about that assumption, which is based on this woman that stated this on the forum, and she also claimed to be in long term M/s relationship, so she is not like me inexperienced - if she is lying , I am lying too. So one person on the forums told you D/s was about actions..and despite the fact people have told you for a month it isn't, you choose to beleive this one person and make a thread about it....yeah...that's about par for your course. Can you see how ridiculous your absolutism is? Wait, of course you can't.

wandersalone -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:54:37 AM)
The emphasis you are making though is still about the act of kneeling, as if somehow a submissive will view you as less dominant (or rather, would view a dominant as less dominant). The act of kneeling is unrelated to a person's dominance Please in the name of all things unholy and evil find this woman who made that comment that prompted this thread and ask her your question.

SocratesNot -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:54:51 AM)
quote: This is a basic concept which is also the Victorian Lifestyle. So old son, these gestures like kissing a Lady's Hand, holding accharir for her, standing when she enters the room, tipping the hat on frst meeting and so on are all part of what we do and is natural for us (I was brought up in this). It is good manners, it is chivalry, it is what a gentleman does without thinking. Soo old lad I would not hesitate to kneel and pay my respects to a slave who had earned it by going above and beyond her duty. It would be without expectation and if the slave didn't handle it well I would understand that this was so far from what she may expect it may have shaken her. She would survive this shock. LOL Finally someone understands me completely. Great! Other people try to pick up all the slightest imprecise words that I used and to confront with me, and they miss the main point at the same time. You wonderfully described the very same feelings that I have.

DisenchantedLife -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:57:14 AM)
quote: Explaining real life human interactions to him is as productive as explaining Quantum Physics to a cow. (at least we would get milk out of the cow once we were done explaining). I vote for using a brown cow so we can have chocolate milk [:D]

Ishtarr -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:57:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Maybe I am wrong about that assumption, which is based on this woman that stated this on the forum, and she also claimed to be in long term M/s relationship, so she is not like me inexperienced - if she is lying , I am lying too. As an college student, you should really learn to start providing proper references. I can only guess what your papers look like if you use arguments like this to proof a point you're trying to make... If you can't provide a proper reference, you do NOT quote a source as having any meaning whatsoever. In fact, you shouldn't even bring up and unreferenced source in any type of debate.

wandersalone -> RE: Kneeling before slaves (6/18/2010 1:58:17 AM)
oh ffs Mod's I would like you to know that I am counting to ten ...and am very glad that my thoughts can't get me modded [:D]

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