Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? Page: <<   < prev  12 13 [14] 15 16   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:23:54 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
~FR

Now for some who do not believe in god. I have been reading for some time an atheist blogger who writes for About.com. An interesting young man to be sure. In a timely fashion, i came across this particular entry by this intelligent man.

Are there Any Atheistic Religions? Can an Atheist Be Part of Any Religion?

The term "pagan" applies to a variety of pre-Christian, nature-oriented religious traditions. Pagan religions are typically polytheistic, but it is possible for a person to treat the pagan gods as metaphors and not really existing. This is no different from treating the pagan stories as metaphors rather than real events, something that is even more common. If a pagan doesn’t believe that the gods in their tradition are real, then they will probably be an atheist. Some may eschew this label, but others are comfortable with it and openly identify as pagan atheists (or atheistic pagans).

Is There a Hindu Atheism? Examples of Atheism in Hinduism:

The Sanskrit word nirisvaravada translates at atheism and means disbelief in a creator god. It does not require disbelief in anything else that might be a "god," but for many anything less than a creator isn't a genuine god in the first place. Both the Samkhya and the Mimamsa schools of Hindu philosophy reject the existence of a creator god, making them explicitly atheistic from a Hindu perspective. This doesn't make them naturalistic, but it does make them as atheistic as any belief system, philosophy, or religion from the perspective of religious theists in the West.

Is There a Buddhist Atheism? Examples of Atheism in Buddhism:

Buddhism is widely regarded as an atheistic religion. Buddhist scriptures either do not promote or actively reject the existence of a creator god, the existence of "lesser" gods who are the source of morality, and that humans owe any duties to any gods. At the same time, though, these scriptures accept the existence of supernatural beings which might be described as gods. Some Buddhists today believe in the existence of such beings and are theists. Others dismiss these beings and are atheists. Since there is nothing about Buddhism which requires belief in gods, atheism in Buddhism is easy to maintain.

Is There a Jain Atheism? Examples of Atheism in Jain Religion:

For Jains, every soul or spiritual being is worthy of the exact same praise. Because of this, Jains do not worship any "higher" spiritual beings like gods nor do they worship or pay homage to any idols. Jains believe that the universe has always existed and will always exist, so there is no need for any sort of creator god. None of this means that no spiritual beings exist which might be called "gods," however, and thus a Jain might believe in beings which might be considered gods and therefore technically be a theist. From a Western religious perspective, though, they'd all be atheists.

Is There a Confucian or Taoist Atheism? Atheism in Confucian & Taoist Religion:

On a functional level, at least, both Confucianism and Taoism can be considered atheistic. Neither is founded on faith in a creator god like Christianity and Islam are. Neither promote the existence of such a god, either. Confucian texts describe a "Heaven" which is a transcendent, personal power of some sort. Whether this qualifies as a personal deity or not is a subject of debate, but it seems at least possible for a person to follow Confucian teachings and be an atheist. Basically the same issue exists for Taoism: belief in some deity may be included, but may not be absolutely required.

Is There a Jewish Atheism? Examples of Atheism among Jews:

Judaism is a religion founded upon belief in a single creator god; it's one of the oldest and earliest forms of monotheism known. Today, however, there are Jews who have rejected belief in this god while retaining attributes of Judaism as possible. In some cases people have retained very little and call themselves Jews for ethnic reasons. Others retain a great deal of Jewish traditions and call themselves Jews not just from a cultural, but also from a religious perspective. They consider themselves every bit as religious as the Jews who continue to believe in God.

Is There a Christian Atheism? Examples of Atheism among Christians:

As a descendent of Judaism, Christianity is also a religion founded upon belief in a single creator god. Atheism is not just rejected, but considered a sin. There are a few people who consider themselves Christians even though they have rejected belief in the existence of any gods, including the Christian creator god. They argue that they are Christian atheists in the same way that some Jews are also atheists: they are Christian for largely cultural reasons, but continue to maintain some religious observances — just without references to any gods.

Modern Paranormal Religions & Atheism:

Scientology has little to say on the subject of gods. It "acknowledges" the existence of a single creator god, but doesn't teach anything specific about it and allows members to worship as they see fit. It may thus be possible for a Scientologist to not worship and not believe. Raelians are explicitly and even "militantly" atheist, in the sense that atheism and freedom for atheists is aggressively pursued. Other modern UFO religions, based around belief in aliens rather than supernatural beings like gods, also at least allow for atheism if not openly endorse atheism as more scientific and rational than theism.

]Humanistic, Naturalistic Religions & Atheism:

There are humanistic religious groups today which endorse belief systems that focus on the needs of human beings here and now while rejecting (or at least minimizing) supernatural beliefs generally. A significant percentage of the members of Unitarian Universalist churches are atheists, though these churches also include Christians, pagans, and others. Members of Ethical Culture groups may or may not believe in any gods; some don't even regard Ethical Culture as being a religious group for themselves though it is considered a religion under the law. Religious humanism creates a religious context without gods.

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismquestions/p/AtheistReligion.htm

I find his reasoning fascinating and i often agree with many of his points. One of the things i like best about the writer is his lack of desire to tear others down while building up his own beliefs.

So, according to this atheist, it is possible to be religious and atheistic at the same time. Does that mean the premise that religious people who have lower IQ's also include atheists?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 261
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:26:44 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

I believe that there is no God - would be athiestic. I believe in God would be religious.
true..and forgive the semantics, but a belief in God is also a faith (speaking as one who has faith but not religion).

I have been following this thread and find it depressing. My comment may seem to come out of left field, but atheism is a belief in the same way faith and religion are beliefs. To each their own and not unto others to criticize.


No it is not.

Show me God. You can't so I don't believe. My foundation for my disbelief is totally opposed to your "need" to believe. I have no preconceived notion that says that I will believe in one thing over the other where in both cases there is no evidence to support their existence.

That is where you and Firm and treasure lose credibility.

I doubt that you, treasure or firm believe that bigfoot exists. But there is in fact much more credible evidence to support the existence of big foot than God. There are actual photos that supposedly show big foot, there are casts of foot prints along with sightings tapes and supposed hair and dung samples.

Yet, you don't believe do you?

Why the need to believe in one thing when you are so quick to discount the other?

So instead of realizing that you apply two sets of standards to your belief system you simply obfuscate the process by claiming that I have a belief system as well.

Fine! I have a belief system if that makes you happy....Now answer the fucking question!!

Why do you have two sets of standards?

Firm answer the question. I typed really slow.

Anyone?




< Message edited by domiguy -- 6/21/2010 9:49:52 AM >


_____________________________



(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 262
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:27:14 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

I missed this one earlier. Vincent, both have faith in their position. I have faith there is a higher power. What that power is, i dont know. An atheist has faith there isnt. I see no difference in the use of the word "faith".


But that is a strawman arguement in a sense tazzy.  Just now in the same post you say -

quote:

I have called many people many names. But i have never labled a whole group of individuals as anything.


And yet you are labelling an entire group based on your perception of what your example of an atheist is.

quote:

Ah, now we go from religion to organized religion. One does not need to be a part of an organized religion to have religion or be a religious person. As a side note, it seems the argument here is against christians, yet there are many religions and organized religions in the world. Again, it seems atheists are trying a "one size fits all" argument... and that wont wash.


Like I said in all three times during this thread - I have seen strawmen practically alight by those who label themselves atheists... but I am seeing the same by those that are 'religious'.  As I said at the start, there are individuals on both sides that are totally capable of doing this.

The fact is, that an atheist has no authority to tell (for the sake of arguement) what a christian believes that makes them a christian or not.  Neither can a christian tell and atheist that they have to be having some sort of faith, or some sort of belief.  Both are informal fallicies that would not hold water to an individuals subjectivity.

the.dark.



_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 263
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:27:57 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

I believe that there is no God - would be athiestic. I believe in God would be religious.
true..and forgive the semantics, but a belief in God is also a faith (speaking as one who has faith but not religion).


I totally dont find that semantic at all holly.  I was trying to be all inclusive when I said 'religious'.  I first put 'christian' but that seemed wrong to just single it out.  Maybe 'spirtual' would fit better, because not all those that believe in a god or gods are going to be christian.  Argh... either way... I'm damned...

the.dark.


There are plenty of people who do not not belong to a religion and are spiritual...

I think it might be helpful to define religious


quote:

relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>
2 : of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances <joined a religious order>
3 a : scrupulously and conscientiously faithful b :


I suppose if one's ultimate reality does not involve a deity, they could still be called "religious" (Taoists for example)

And the scrupulously and conscientiously faithful definition can be applied to the scientific method (He religiously performed his scientific experiments to get an accurate repeatable result)

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 264
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:29:24 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Some things are not an academic stance, I breathe without a belief that I will breathe.

I don't wake up in the morning and reason that I will see because I believe I can see.

Ahh, but this is the "fish in water, don't notice the water" stuff, Ron.

You do "believe" that you will breathe and see.

Some people have become blind, and no longer have the belief.

Some asthmatics go from day to day, unsure if the next day, or the next hour that they will be able to breath.

In both cases, you assume that you will continue to breath and continue to see, and make your plans, and go about your daily life believing that both will continue.  But they are indeed only beliefs, faith and trust based on prior experience, not certainties.  And one day, when you die, you will neither see nor breath.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

There ain't no god, because I see it and feel it, if you want to quibble and say thats a belief, you would do disservice to the meaning of the word.  It requires no ignoring of rigorous proof, it requires no trust or faith.  It just is.

You believe that there is no god.  Disbelief in a specific thing is a willingness to embrace a belief that you are correct in your estimation of that.

It does require trust and faith in your senses, and in your logic and reasoning.

Even a schizophrenic who hears voices is convinced that they are real, based on their senses and experiences.

You are basing your belief on your senses and experiences.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 265
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:31:21 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
You're totally wrong to impute those sorts of things to me.  But, oh well, hey?



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 266
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:35:37 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
There are plenty of people who do not not belong to a religion and are spiritual...


Absoultely - which is why I agreed with holly that I did use the incorrect word.

quote:

Me: 
Maybe 'spirtual' would fit better, because not all those that believe in a god or gods are going to be christian.  Argh... either way... I'm damned...


the.dark.

_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:36:34 AM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes


I am sure there were people that believed such things existed, just as I am sure that people once thought the earth was flat.  You AND I both know there are people that believe in Jesus Christ.

The "superior sounding sigh" is NOT meant to be superior sounding.  If you took it that way, well, I guess that shoe fit.

The :::SIGH:: was my indication that I have used this "little argument" over and over to, exactly as you say, "explain my position."

Why people continue to strawman aetheists is of concern, just as the OP asks.  My :::SIGH::: was meant to indicate my tiredness at doing this again and again.



MUST go to work, sorry that I can't explain any more clearly at this time.




Well thanks Lance for the explanation. I dont know you and have not ever once heard you give this tiring explanation you have given over and over so to me it read superior sounding. The bit about how" that shoe fit" I dont really understand your meaning. No need to explain, I dont care but to let you know I dont get your point.

Thinking the world is flat and the existence of JC, for example are not really comparable. The world is not flat but the living existence of Jesus Christ is not a fallacy is it? That he walked this earth did happen, or do you think he never existed at all?

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to LanceHughes)
Profile   Post #: 268
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:41:13 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

And yet you are labelling an entire group based on your perception of what your example of an atheist is.


You lost me. Mind clarifying?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:46:14 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
You believe that there is no god.  Disbelief in a specific thing is a willingness to embrace a belief that you are correct in your estimation of that.

It does require trust and faith in your senses, and in your logic and reasoning.

Firm



MrFirm - I hope I don't seem pedantic and I totally see where you are coming from (because you have faith).
However (awww... ya just knew there was a but...)
If a person doesn't like eggs, they say, I don't like eggs.  Not - I don't believe I don't like eggs.  No proof or faith required.
Personally, I have never had an atheist say to me, I don't believe there is a god - but they do say - there is no god.  No proof  or faith required.
It's not a belief (in that sense).

Belief and disbelief are not the same - they are antonyms.  But they are both convictions.

the.dark.

_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 270
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:47:19 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

And that is the key point: some atheists' absolute "knowledge" that no possibility exists in any part of nature for things we do not presently understand. The history of science is replete with examples of things that we did not understand, nor believe at the time, yet as our knowledge grew, we came to accept.

As I mentioned in the original thread that this one spun off of, there are indications within science (quantum and string theory) that at least opens up the possibility that everything we think we have known about the universe may be wrong - or at least different - than what science has taught over the last several hundred years. Just one example: the distinction between matter and energy is apparently a false understanding.

This absolutism is particularly bothersome coming from the very folks who claim that they are adherents of science, which, by definition, is required to be open-minded, and able to change their basic paradigms of the world based on new evidence. Lack of openness to possibilities is the anti-thesis of science, and when some atheist claim "science" as the basis of their belief, then it makes me believe that they really have no clue about what they are talking about.


It is true, Firm, scientists are constantly finding new information and constructs about the Universe and so the Model changes. However, you use changes in our understanding of Nature to suggest we should be open-minded to the existence of the Supernatural. That imo is the fallacy in your logic. In order to support your belief in gods you have to rely upon constructs for which there is no evidence so you turn the argument back always to science and our ways of knowing.

The basis of your construct is magical and mysterious, outside of nature. Your belief violates the laws of nature as we know them. Now, you can jump on that and place emphasis on "as we know them" and suggest that someday new laws of Nature will become apparent to us. That may be true but meanwhile you depend upon miracles and happenings that are outside of Nature, calling upon those who study Nature to be open to possibilities beyond experience but based upon received wisdom and revelation through personal experiences. You ask us to accept unverifiable anecdotal reports in place of current science knowledge on the possibility they may be true and then you ask science to cut you some slack. Doesn't seem to be a sustainable position, again imo.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 6/21/2010 9:51:49 AM >


_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 271
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:50:33 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Belief and disbelief are not the same - they are antonyms. But they are both convictions.


Damn, you're good. I just joined the.dark admiration society.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 272
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:50:56 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
I am bumping my post because I would like an answer...You asked for me to spell it out...I have. Now please answer the question.
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy



quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

I believe that there is no God - would be athiestic. I believe in God would be religious.
true..and forgive the semantics, but a belief in God is also a faith (speaking as one who has faith but not religion).

I have been following this thread and find it depressing. My comment may seem to come out of left field, but atheism is a belief in the same way faith and religion are beliefs. To each their own and not unto others to criticize.


No it is not.

Show me God. You can't so I don't believe. My foundation for my disbelief is totally opposed to your "need" to believe. I have no preconceived notion that says that I will believe in one thing over the other where in both cases there is no evidence to support their existence.

That is where you and Firm and treasure lose credibility.

I doubt that you, treasure or firm believe that bigfoot exists. But there is in fact much more credible evidence to support the existence of big foot than God. There are actual photos that supposedly show big foot, there are casts of foot prints along with sightings tapes and supposed hair and dung samples.

Yet, you don't believe do you?

Why the need to believe in one thing when you are so quick to discount the other?

So instead of realizing that you apply two sets of standards to your belief system you simply obfuscate the process by claiming that I have a belief system as well.

Fine! I have a belief system if that makes you happy....Now answer the fucking question!!

Why do you have two sets of standards?

Firm answer the question. I typed really slow.

Anyone?





_____________________________



(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 273
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:56:13 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And you just made my point perfectly. Thank you.

Care to explain that in context?


quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
Nope some do. And some athiests do not accept evolution either.

That's my point, there are some people who just don't seem to understand how ridiculous it is to walk into a discussion and inform atheists what their position is, I'm hoping that turning the exact same statement around will make the issue with what she's doing clear to her.

Has it helped anyone else grasp my point?



And you just made my point perfectly. Thank you.


Im going with the assumption you are talking about the above post. So, i will respond. Sorry i didnt earlier, it got lost in the thread while i was working.

In order to do so, i have to include one other quote from this thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
atheists state there is no god.

theists state there is no evolution.



I posted what i did not because its what i believe, as you assumed, but because i knew it would get this reaction. I almost bet someone that reaction would come from you. I should have.

Anyways, the premise that everyone fits into a neat little box is a fallacy in itself. As proof is your comment that theists do not believe in evolution. Many do. Im not stupid enough to believe earth's history started 6000 years ago. I am smart enough to understand that the bible was written for the masses as a compass for their daily lives, to explain what could not be explained without scientific rationalizing, to answer questions people had in those days, and, in small part, to control the behaviors of said people.

And there are many many people who believe as i do. There are many who believe in the fundemental teachings of a particular religion while discounting the belief in a god or many gods.

We can toss around definitions all day and it wont solve anything. Taking a square peg like me and trying to ram me into a round hole... well.. we all know what happens. You are free to believe as you wish, as am i.

But, again, my favorite atheist responds to what exactly i posted that drew your attention, GS.

quote:

The broader, and more common, understanding of atheism among atheists is quite simply "not believing in any gods." No claims or denials are made — an atheist is just a person who does not happen to be a theist. Sometimes this broader understanding is called "weak" or "implicit" atheism. Most good, complete dictionaries readily support this.

There also exists a narrower sort of atheism, sometimes called "strong" or "explicit" atheism. With this type, the atheist explicitly denies the existence of any gods — making a strong claim which will deserve support at some point. Some atheists do this and others may do this with regards to certain specific gods but not with others. Thus, a person may lack belief in one god, but deny the existence of another god.


http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/definition.htm

Just as there are many forms of religion, not all of them believing in one or any god, there are different forms of atheism.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/21/2010 10:00:16 AM >


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 9:56:51 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Show me God. You can't so I don't believe.

Have you ever seen a coelacanth?  No?  I guess you don't believe it exists, then?

How about an atom?  Ever seen an atom?  No?  Must not exist, then, huh?

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

My foundation for my disbelief is totally opposed to your "need" to believe. I have no preconceived notion that says that I will believe in one thing over the other where in both cases there is no evidence to support their existence.

That is where you and Firm and treasure lose credibility.

I doubt that you, treasure or firm believe that bigfoot exists. But there is in fact much more credible evidence to support the existence of big foot than God. There are actual photos that supposedly show big foot, there are casts of foot prints along with sightings tapes and supposed hair and dung samples.

Yet, you don't believe do you?

I've already addressed this issue several pages ago.


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Why the need to believe in one thing when you are so quick to discount the other?

What am I discounting, exactly?  That Big Foot exists?  But I don't discount that a deity exists?

Read my earlier answer about Big Foot.  I don't really care if you and other atheist don't believe in god.  That's never been my point.  You don't accept even the slightest possibility except that only you are correct in your beliefs.  You wish to claim that you are inherently correct and right in your beliefs to others who do not believe as you do.  You even wish to argue the point of whether you have beliefs at all


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

So instead of realizing that you apply two sets of standards to your belief system you simply obfuscate the process by claiming that I have a belief system as well.

Fine! I have a belief system if that makes you happy....Now answer the fucking question!!

Why do you have two sets of standards?

Firm answer the question. I typed really slow.

I do not have two sets of standards.  It is some of the atheists who are arguing two sets of standards.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 275
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 10:00:09 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

And yet you are labelling an entire group based on your perception of what your example of an atheist is.


You lost me. Mind clarifying?


Sure!
You said.
quote:

 
But i have never labled a whole group of individuals as anything


Vinnie was trying to explain the two different types of faith, which is fairly complicated, but not impossible to understand.  You took his explaination, oversimplyfied it and used it to create this -

quote:

I have faith there is a higher power. What that power is, i dont know. An atheist has faith there isnt.


This leads to the concluesion that atheists have faith because your 'atheist' was a generalistic example (There is no indication that the atheist concerned in your sentance is factual).

This is the strawmanning that OP is talking about.  There have been plenty of atheists on here who have stated that for them, they have no faith.  You aren't an atheist.  You can't label an entire group of people that they would be the same as you, even if you were.

the.dark.



_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 276
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 10:00:19 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
I tire of you. You are not capable of having a debate.

I am done.

_____________________________



(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 277
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 10:01:59 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Perhaps you may want to read what i posted earlier by Austin Cline.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 278
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 10:05:21 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I am bumping my post because I would like an answer...You asked for me to spell it out...I have. Now please answer the question.

Bump all you want.  I'll answer or not answer when and if I see fit.

Just so happens I was already preparing a reply when you so ungraciously posted this.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 10:05:29 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy



quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

I believe that there is no God - would be athiestic. I believe in God would be religious.
true..and forgive the semantics, but a belief in God is also a faith (speaking as one who has faith but not religion).

I have been following this thread and find it depressing. My comment may seem to come out of left field, but atheism is a belief in the same way faith and religion are beliefs. To each their own and not unto others to criticize.


No it is not.

Show me God. You can't so I don't believe.


Annnnnd here we go. You have just proven my point.

My faith is my belief. I do not have to prove or disprove it to you or anyone else.

My personal belief is not yours to criticize.

If your personal belief is to not believe, fine. I cannot nor will not say a word against it. But that lil prayer you have for a sig line informs me you are full of shit and ready to stir.



_____________________________

PICKED UPON
TECHNO-DOLT
MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
VAA/S FAN

GIVES GOOD HEART (Lushy)

CREATOR OF MAYHEM (practice)


(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 280
Page:   <<   < prev  12 13 [14] 15 16   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? Page: <<   < prev  12 13 [14] 15 16   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109