RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist?

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (Full Version)

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GotSteel -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:27:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Sorry you feel offended, Lance. I'm not trolling, and BS's answer is simply nonsensical. Your failure to make sense of BS's answer doesn't mean it's nonsense. Without getting into specifics what I've seen you do the last several pages is to tell atheist that they don't hold the position they think they do and that they hold this other position instead. Would you consider this to be an accurate general outline of what you've done?

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:30:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Those same reactions can be hardnessed by fear, hatred.. any emotion. How can it be proven that its love? How do you prove love exists? And i can give you chilling stories of mothers who have rejected their newborns. So utilizing the argument that love is to promote the species and protect infants is a fallacy. There are many who state they are incapable of love, and just as many who do not hold those feelings in a D/s relationship. Why is it a fallacy because you can bring up a hand full of exceptions to the rule? It's big time news when a mother kills her kids. It definitely is the exception to the rule and does not in the least negate what he wrote. You are really not very good at this. A child does not have to die to be "unloved" nor does it have to be harmed physically. And there are many children throughout the world that are harmed physically, abused by their mothers that never make it to the press.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:32:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Those same reactions can be hardnessed by fear, hatred.. any emotion. How can it be proven that its love? How do you prove love exists? And i can give you chilling stories of mothers who have rejected their newborns. So utilizing the argument that love is to promote the species and protect infants is a fallacy. There are many who state they are incapable of love, and just as many who do not hold those feelings in a D/s relationship. Why is it a fallacy because you can bring up a hand full of exceptions to the rule? It's big time news when a mother kills her kids. It definitely is the exception to the rule and does not in the least negate what he wrote. You are really not very good at this. A child does not have to die to be "unloved" nor does it have to be harmed physically. And there are many children throughout the world that are harmed physically, abused by their mothers that never make it to the press. There are entire cultures of people out there that mothers have no feelings at all for their kids, and they don't raise them... humanity is really variable

brainiacsub -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:43:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff Ok. what do ya say everyone comes to a nice mutual agreement in 5 more pages. Deal? No. We are just about to debate the meaning of the word "conviction." We still have yet to agree on the definitions of "religion" and "dogma" (trust me, that's coming) and we never resolved from the last 30 page thread whether faith and blind faith were in fact the same things. This one is a 50 pager, easy. and now we have people like Julia talking about their belief in taoism. Taoism?...I once had a tshirt that had more religious convictions than a taoist. Yeah, and if I recall correctly from that 30 page thread, it would have ended after 5 or so pages had Tim not tried to connect the dots between critical thought and religion through Taoism and Zen. So I guess the evidence suggests that it is in fact a reasoned position to take that the Taoists are responsible for all these religious threads going to shit. I think we should find them all and kill them.

Elisabella -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:44:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy [image]http://insidescience.org/polopoly_fs/1.918!image/671260397.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/671260397.jpg[/image] Now show me a picture of God. Here you go: [image]http://insidescience.org/polopoly_fs/1.918!image/671260397.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/671260397.jpg[/image] I think this is interesting, because not too long ago in the history of the world, every bit of rational thought would have said the idea of electrons and particles and waves are superstitious sounding magical bullshit. I've heard a lot of explanations for what God is. I'm more inclined to believe most of them than to believe a single one. I think the concepts are evolving toward understanding - I once read an article that paralleled the 10 sephiroth of the Kabbalah to the 10 dimensions in superstring theory. I think it's interesting. I don't think it's possible to convince someone, rationally, to believe in God. I don't think this is a failing of religion. The day that God can be explained rationally by humans is the day humans become gods themselves.

brainiacsub -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:44:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Most atheists will assert that belief systems based on faith are in fact inferior to those based on reason. (I don't believe this is always true, but that is an argument for the theists to make, not the atheists.) Whose yardstick are you using? I'm not sure what you are asking. You'll have to clarify your question.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:45:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl As much as we object to the classification that religious people are inferior. I don't know anyone who has made this claim. Another strawman, tazz. I direct your attention to this post http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3269346 Please, get your facts straight before accusing anyone of strawmanning.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:48:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Most atheists will assert that belief systems based on faith are in fact inferior to those based on reason. (I don't believe this is always true, but that is an argument for the theists to make, not the atheists.) Whose yardstick are you using? I'm not sure what you are asking. You'll have to clarify your question. The inferiority of faith to atheism, under what yardstick are you measuring this?

brainiacsub -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:51:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania The inferiority of faith to atheism, under what yardstick are you measuring this? For starters, how about the fact that we no longer live in the dark ages. The yardstick is called progress.

juliaoceania -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:51:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania The inferiority of faith to atheism, under what yardstick are you measuring this? For starters, how about the fact that we no longer live in the dark ages. The yardstick is called progress. Oh... so you believe we are on some grand march forward through time? edited to add, you should frame your answer carefully, because if you do not I will crush you in the jaws of your own logic

domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:54:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella I don't think it's possible to convince someone, rationally, to believe in God. I don't think this is a failing of religion. The day that God can be explained rationally by humans is the day humans become gods themselves. Then fall to your knees and worship your Lord and Savior Domiguy.

Elisabella -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:55:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Then fall to your knees and worship your Lord and Savior Domiguy. Darling I'll be a goddess then. Find a new race of mortals to do all that.

domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:55:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl As much as we object to the classification that religious people are inferior. I don't know anyone who has made this claim. Another strawman, tazz. I direct your attention to this post http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3269346 Please, get your facts straight before accusing anyone of strawmanning. No one cares about one person's post that was a bit off the mark in regards to the overall direction of this thread which is to........ Infinity and beyond!!!!

brainiacsub -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:56:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I direct your attention to this post http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3269346 Please, get your facts straight before accusing anyone of strawmanning. I have read this entire thread and I do recall this post. I never saw it as a strawman, but instead as an unnecessary insult that did nothing to further this debate. Not every insult is a strawman, tazz. Just like the claim that atheists tend to have higher IQs. This claim was based on an actual study...several of them, in fact. Agree or disagree. Find fault with the methodology of the study. But it is not a strawman.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 4:56:14 PM)
quote: I don't know anyone who has made this claim. Another strawman, tazz. Not my fault she cant read.

heartcream -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 5:00:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Because western civ is the child of Christianity and we are the children of western civilization. Like it or not, Christianity is the mother of us all.... or the grandmother.[:D] Well if you are able to reach back before that time you will see Christianity is a fairly new thing on the planet and there are far, far older grandmothers than Jesus and his story. Although the overlaps, gaps, issues, misunderstandings and even the good powerful essence is mostly essentially the same thing, only more and more fragmented down through time.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 5:02:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I direct your attention to this post http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3269346 Please, get your facts straight before accusing anyone of strawmanning. I have read this entire thread and I do recall this post. I never saw it as a strawman, but instead as an unnecessary insult that did nothing to further this debate. Not every insult is a strawman, tazz. Just like the claim that atheists tend to have higher IQs. This claim was based on an actual study...several of them, in fact. Agree or disagree. Find fault with the methodology of the study. But it is not a strawman. quote: We object to these silly semantic arguments that put faith on parity with reason only for the purpose of creating a false logic that both positions are equally valid (or equally flawed, if you prefer). To which i posted this quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl As much as we object to the classification that religious people are inferior. See how that works? Its called an exchange. You stated your objection, and i stated mine.

Jeffff -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 5:02:40 PM)
Creamy, you know I love you, but that's my point. It has always been necessary to create a god to be responsible for all this shit. Whether it is to explain an eclipse or why cancer kills children.

heartcream -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 5:05:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella ...I don't think it's possible to convince someone, rationally, to believe in God. I don't think this is a failing of religion. The day that God can be explained rationally by humans is the day humans become gods themselves. Hmm I dont agree. We can all gain far more understanding wisdom, knowledge and compassion and perhaps be able to explain God rationally. We can become all that we are and were ever meant to be and be filled with Light and Love but it wont change who we fundamentally essentially are.

Elisabella -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/21/2010 5:05:20 PM)
quote: I have read this entire thread and I do recall this post. I never saw it as a strawman, but instead as an unnecessary insult that did nothing to further this debate. Not every insult is a strawman, tazz. For a "braniac" touting "logic" yours is sorely lacking. She wasn't saying that insult was a strawman. She was saying that there have been atheists who have said religious people were inferior and YOU claimed that was a strawman because you didn't know any atheists who did that.. She pointed you to a post that showed there were, which you claim to have read that disproved your assertation. Whether or not it's true that religious people are inferior to atheists is irrelevant - you said that no atheists claimed that, and now you're more or less claiming it yourself. So like Tazzy said, check your facts before you accuse someone else of strawmanning.

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