RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist?

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:27:04 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Sorry you feel offended, Lance. I'm not trolling, and BS's answer is simply nonsensical.

Your failure to make sense of BS's answer doesn't mean it's nonsense.

Without getting into specifics what I've seen you do the last several pages is to tell atheist that they don't hold the position they think they do and that they hold this other position instead. Would you consider this to be an accurate general outline of what you've done?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 441

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:30:24 PM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Those same reactions can be hardnessed by fear, hatred.. any emotion. How can it be proven that its love? How do you prove love exists?

And i can give you chilling stories of mothers who have rejected their newborns. So utilizing the argument that love is to promote the species and protect infants is a fallacy. There are many who state they are incapable of love, and just as many who do not hold those feelings in a D/s relationship.

Why is it a fallacy because you can bring up a hand full of exceptions to the rule?

It's big time news when a mother kills her kids. It definitely is the exception to the rule and does not in the least negate what he wrote.

You are really not very good at this.

A child does not have to die to be "unloved" nor does it have to be harmed physically. And there are many children throughout the world that are harmed physically, abused by their mothers that never make it to the press.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 442

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:32:08 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Those same reactions can be hardnessed by fear, hatred.. any emotion. How can it be proven that its love? How do you prove love exists?

And i can give you chilling stories of mothers who have rejected their newborns. So utilizing the argument that love is to promote the species and protect infants is a fallacy. There are many who state they are incapable of love, and just as many who do not hold those feelings in a D/s relationship.

Why is it a fallacy because you can bring up a hand full of exceptions to the rule?

It's big time news when a mother kills her kids. It definitely is the exception to the rule and does not in the least negate what he wrote.

You are really not very good at this.

A child does not have to die to be "unloved" nor does it have to be harmed physically. And there are many children throughout the world that are harmed physically, abused by their mothers that never make it to the press.

There are entire cultures of people out there that mothers have no feelings at all for their kids, and they don't raise them... humanity is really variable

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 443

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:43:15 PM

brainiacsub

Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Ok. what do ya say everyone comes to a nice mutual agreement in 5 more pages.

Deal?

No. We are just about to debate the meaning of the word "conviction." We still have yet to agree on the definitions of "religion" and "dogma" (trust me, that's coming) and we never resolved from the last 30 page thread whether faith and blind faith were in fact the same things. This one is a 50 pager, easy.

and now we have people like Julia talking about their belief in taoism.

Taoism?...I once had a tshirt that had more religious convictions than a taoist.

Yeah, and if I recall correctly from that 30 page thread, it would have ended after 5 or so pages had Tim not tried to connect the dots between critical thought and religion through Taoism and Zen.

So I guess the evidence suggests that it is in fact a reasoned position to take that the Taoists are responsible for all these religious threads going to shit. I think we should find them all and kill them.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 444

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:44:33 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Now show me a picture of God.

Here you go:

I think this is interesting, because not too long ago in the history of the world, every bit of rational thought would have said the idea of electrons and particles and waves are superstitious sounding magical bullshit.

I've heard a lot of explanations for what God is. I'm more inclined to believe most of them than to believe a single one. I think the concepts are evolving toward understanding - I once read an article that paralleled the 10 sephiroth of the Kabbalah to the 10 dimensions in superstring theory. I think it's interesting.

I don't think it's possible to convince someone, rationally, to believe in God. I don't think this is a failing of religion. The day that God can be explained rationally by humans is the day humans become gods themselves.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 445

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:44:41 PM

brainiacsub

Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Most atheists will assert that belief systems based on faith are in fact inferior to those based on reason. (I don't believe this is always true, but that is an argument for the theists to make, not the atheists.)

Whose yardstick are you using?

I'm not sure what you are asking. You'll have to clarify your question.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 446

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:45:26 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

As much as we object to the classification that religious people are inferior.

I don't know anyone who has made this claim. Another strawman, tazz.

I direct your attention to this post

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3269346

Please, get your facts straight before accusing anyone of strawmanning.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to brainiacsub)

Post #: 447

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:48:07 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Most atheists will assert that belief systems based on faith are in fact inferior to those based on reason. (I don't believe this is always true, but that is an argument for the theists to make, not the atheists.)

Whose yardstick are you using?

I'm not sure what you are asking. You'll have to clarify your question.

The inferiority of faith to atheism, under what yardstick are you measuring this?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to brainiacsub)

Post #: 448

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:51:08 PM

brainiacsub

Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

The inferiority of faith to atheism, under what yardstick are you measuring this?

For starters, how about the fact that we no longer live in the dark ages. The yardstick is called progress.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 449

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:51:55 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

The inferiority of faith to atheism, under what yardstick are you measuring this?

For starters, how about the fact that we no longer live in the dark ages. The yardstick is called progress.

Oh... so you believe we are on some grand march forward through time?

edited to add, you should frame your answer carefully, because if you do not I will crush you in the jaws of your own logic

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/21/2010 4:55:27 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to brainiacsub)

Post #: 450

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:54:03 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

I don't think it's possible to convince someone, rationally, to believe in God. I don't think this is a failing of religion. The day that God can be explained rationally by humans is the day humans become gods themselves.

Then fall to your knees and worship your Lord and Savior Domiguy.

_____________________________

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 451

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:55:02 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Then fall to your knees and worship your Lord and Savior Domiguy.

Darling I'll be a goddess then.

Find a new race of mortals to do all that.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 452

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:55:05 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

As much as we object to the classification that religious people are inferior.

I don't know anyone who has made this claim. Another strawman, tazz.

I direct your attention to this post

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3269346

Please, get your facts straight before accusing anyone of strawmanning.

No one cares about one person's post that was a bit off the mark in regards to the overall direction of this thread which is to........

Infinity and beyond!!!!

< Message edited by domiguy -- 6/21/2010 4:58:12 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 453

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:56:14 PM

brainiacsub

Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I direct your attention to this post

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3269346

Please, get your facts straight before accusing anyone of strawmanning.

I have read this entire thread and I do recall this post. I never saw it as a strawman, but instead as an unnecessary insult that did nothing to further this debate. Not every insult is a strawman, tazz.

Just like the claim that atheists tend to have higher IQs. This claim was based on an actual study...several of them, in fact. Agree or disagree. Find fault with the methodology of the study. But it is not a strawman.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 454

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 4:56:14 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

I don't know anyone who has made this claim. Another strawman, tazz.

Not my fault she cant read.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 455

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 5:00:27 PM

heartcream

Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Because western civ is the child of Christianity and we are the children of western civilization. Like it or not, Christianity is the mother of us all.... or the grandmother.

Well if you are able to reach back before that time you will see Christianity is a fairly new thing on the planet and there are far, far older grandmothers than Jesus and his story. Although the overlaps, gaps, issues, misunderstandings and even the good powerful essence is mostly essentially the same thing, only more and more fragmented down through time.

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 456

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 5:02:34 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I direct your attention to this post

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3269346

Please, get your facts straight before accusing anyone of strawmanning.

I have read this entire thread and I do recall this post. I never saw it as a strawman, but instead as an unnecessary insult that did nothing to further this debate. Not every insult is a strawman, tazz.

Just like the claim that atheists tend to have higher IQs. This claim was based on an actual study...several of them, in fact. Agree or disagree. Find fault with the methodology of the study. But it is not a strawman.

quote:

We object to these silly semantic arguments that put faith on parity with reason only for the purpose of creating a false logic that both positions are equally valid (or equally flawed, if you prefer).

To which i posted this

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

As much as we object to the classification that religious people are inferior.

See how that works? Its called an exchange. You stated your objection, and i stated mine.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to brainiacsub)

Post #: 457

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 5:02:40 PM

Jeffff

Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline

Creamy, you know I love you, but that's my point.

It has always been necessary to create a god to be responsible for all this shit.

Whether it is to explain an eclipse or why cancer kills children.

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to heartcream)

Post #: 458

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 5:05:15 PM

heartcream

Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

...I don't think it's possible to convince someone, rationally, to believe in God. I don't think this is a failing of religion. The day that God can be explained rationally by humans is the day humans become gods themselves.

Hmm I dont agree. We can all gain far more understanding wisdom, knowledge and compassion and perhaps be able to explain God rationally. We can become all that we are and were ever meant to be and be filled with Light and Love but it wont change who we fundamentally essentially are.

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 459

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 5:05:20 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

I have read this entire thread and I do recall this post. I never saw it as a strawman, but instead as an unnecessary insult that did nothing to further this debate. Not every insult is a strawman, tazz.

For a "braniac" touting "logic" yours is sorely lacking.

She wasn't saying that insult was a strawman. She was saying that there have been atheists who have said religious people were inferior and YOU claimed that was a strawman because you didn't know any atheists who did that..

She pointed you to a post that showed there were, which you claim to have read that disproved your assertation.

Whether or not it's true that religious people are inferior to atheists is irrelevant - you said that no atheists claimed that, and now you're more or less claiming it yourself. So like Tazzy said, check your facts before you accuse someone else of strawmanning.

(in reply to brainiacsub)

Post #: 460

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