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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:35:17 PM   
marie2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2



And the trust that they believe their "rational thought" is correct. Rational thought is subjective, and certainly isn't scientific proof.


No, but rational thought leads to scientific proof, something that faith can never do.



But you need to have faith (trust, conviction type faith) in your "rational thought" to begin with. If you don't have faith in it, then what convinces you that it's "rational"?


Damn, I fucked up the quote boxes. Think I got it right now.



< Message edited by marie2 -- 6/21/2010 3:37:33 PM >

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:37:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Why does it demand your attention? Or any atheists attention? I dont meet people and immediately ask their religion. I could care less. Nor do i discuss my personal beliefs with strangers. Do other people? Im sure some do. There are zealots in all walks of life.. including atheism.

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:38:47 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		So - let's get this clear.  devils advocate, strawmen, authors aside.

A)You do label whole groups of individuals as something.
or
B)You don't label whole groups of individuals as anything.
A or B.

the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:41:45 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

quote:

religion is primarily a result of stupidity, not a cause.
I assume that came from DCWoody since Tgirl lumped it in with a bunch of other quotes. Belief in god is genetic and located in a very specific region of the brain. Religion is the result of desire for power over others that capitalizes on the illusion the brain creates.


The God gene hypothesis proposes that human beings inherit a set of genes that predisposes them to believe in a higher power. The idea has been postulated by geneticist Dean Hamer, the director of the Gene Structure and Regulation Unit at the U.S. National Cancer Institute, who has written a book on the subject titled, The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes.

The God gene hypothesis is based on a combination of behavioral genetic, neurobiological and psychological studies. The major arguments of the theory are: (1) spirituality can be quantified by psychometric measurements; (2) the underlying tendency to spirituality is partially heritable; (3) part of this heritability can be attributed to the gene VMAT2[1]; (4) this gene acts by altering monoamine levels; and (5) spirituality arises in a population because spiritual individuals are favored by natural selection. However, a number of scientists and researchers are highly critical of this theory; Carl Zimmer, writing in Scientific American, questions why "Hamer rushed into print with this book before publishing his results in a credible scientific journal."[2] In his book, Hamer backs away from the title and main hypotheses by saying "Just because spirituality is partly genetic doesn't mean it is hardwired."[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene

Even Hamer backed off the hardwire theory. May want to rethink this particular belief.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:42:39 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		Because western civ is the child of Christianity and we are the children of western civilization. Like it or not, Christianity is the mother of us all.... or the grandmother.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:43:22 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2



And the trust that they believe their "rational thought" is correct. Rational thought is subjective, and certainly isn't scientific proof.


No, but rational thought leads to scientific proof, something that faith can never do.



But you need to have faith (trust, conviction type faith) in your "rational thought" to begin with. If you don't have faith in it, then what convinces you that it's "rational"?


Damn, I fucked up the quote boxes. Think I got it right now.




I have faith that you and divi will have future problems with the "quoty thing"....I am not a very religious person.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:43:30 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

So - let's get this clear.  devils advocate, strawmen, authors aside.

A)You do label whole groups of individuals as something.
or
B)You don't label whole groups of individuals as anything.
A or B.

the.dark.


This is RC

Extra points awarded to people who think that my.girl. will not get a straight answer,but gives her kudos for being paitent.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:45:15 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its sorta like proving love exists, ya know?


Of course love exists. Its a chemical process that evolved to protect infants and ensure survival of the species. Nothing more, nothing less.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:45:25 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
I have faith that you and divi will have future problems with the "quoty thing"....I am not a very religious person.


Is that faith..... or prophecy?

the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:45:37 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

So - let's get this clear.  devils advocate, strawmen, authors aside.

A)You do label whole groups of individuals as something.
or
B)You don't label whole groups of individuals as anything.
A or B.

the.dark.


I am very careful not to lable a whole group of people as anything. Your assertion that i was straw manning anyone, when in all actuality i have shown what form of argument i used, was wrong.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 410
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:46:59 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Even with people acknowledging and clarifying the difference between religious faith and trust-type faith, some of the non-god believers were still very uncomfortable with the use of the word "faith" in the same sentence as the word "atheist".


The reason being, marie, that I see it as a disingenuous attempt to develop an equivalency and so turn atheism into a quasi religion.



Ok then you see it as disingenous attempt. Therefore, when you see the word faith, the content of the post in which it's contained is obliterated by your automatic belief that it's a disingenous attempt to manipulate.

Nothing I've typed in this thread has been a disingenous attempt. But thanks for that response.

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:47:30 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

So - let's get this clear.  devils advocate, strawmen, authors aside.

A)You do label whole groups of individuals as something.
or
B)You don't label whole groups of individuals as anything.
A or B.

the.dark.


This is RC

Extra points awarded to people who think that my.girl. will not get a straight answer,but gives her kudos for being paitent.


Just because your girl doesnt understand any form of debate other than strawmanning isnt my problem, RC. I have answered every question she placed before me.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 412
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:49:18 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Of course love exists. Its a chemical process that evolved to protect infants and ensure survival of the species. Nothing more, nothing less.


You know, you are just no fun at all.


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In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:49:33 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

So - let's get this clear.  devils advocate, strawmen, authors aside.

A)You do label whole groups of individuals as something.
or
B)You don't label whole groups of individuals as anything.
A or B.

the.dark.


Further thought. Because i was able to prove my point that i used a devils advocate form of argument, instead of the strawmanning you determined i was utilizing, we now have to push that aside? It no longer fits... so, according to you, its no longer important. Nice form of debate here, dc.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 414
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:50:55 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Of course love exists. Its a chemical process that evolved to protect infants and ensure survival of the species. Nothing more, nothing less.


You know, you are just no fun at all.



He is slightly off base. He speaks of nothing about the love of family, the love of friends, the love for pets, ect ect ect.

Love isnt that easily boxed.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 415
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:51:21 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

So - let's get this clear.  devils advocate, strawmen, authors aside.

A)You do label whole groups of individuals as something.
or
B)You don't label whole groups of individuals as anything.
A or B.

the.dark.


I am very careful not to lable a whole group of people as anything.


Ok then, same clarity. strawmen/devils advocate/authors aside.

A) you say that atheists have faith.(regardless of the meaning of faith)
B) you say that atheists do not have faith.(regardless the meaning of faith).
A or B

the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:51:54 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Can you honestly say that atheists have no faith? In anything? Anything at all? Or are you doing as they have done and utilizing, out of the many definitions there are for that word, the one related to religion?

No Tazzy, that is not correct. Atheists have no Faith, as in we don't believe in deities or religious dogma that invents them. You should go back and re-read mine and Vincent's posts in these two threads. We covered that over and over.


Out of interest brainiac, how does the word 'disbelief' work for you?  Good/bad/indifferent?  Is it a better word than non belief?  Or am I completely missing the point?

the.dark.

For me personally, I find the distinction to be pedantic. I am only concerned with choosing one over the other if the choice brings clarity to the argument. I'm not sure it does....unless I'm debating Firm.

(in reply to RCdc)
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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:53:28 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

They simply don't. they give a great deal of the benefit of the doubt towards their approach to religion that they are not willing or seemingly unable to give to other ideas where they have equally as strong of feelings.

But they contend they have no differences in their processes, that they harbor no hypocrisy.

Of course, as usual they are mistaken.

Make sense?


I haven't seen that from them... seriously. I have never had them put me down or insult my nonbelief. If I had, I would see it differently...

They are convicted in their hearts and minds, I get that, I respect it...Perhaps that is why I have never butted heads with them? I am not trying to change their mind, and sincerely, they haven't tried to change mine...


I learned something several years ago, I had to slay my sacred cows. I still have a few, but I try to challenge them. I cannot expect that other people will be willing to do that. If they have sacred cows that they feel they have to protect, who am I to take out my knife and kill them? They will kill them if they are ever ready....

They are looking for external proof, which they may or may not find... I do not see that as being worthy of insulting them over...

And I have argued extensively with those posters you mention,... to the point of the mods scrubbing threads, etc... but that was over politics, not religion.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to domiguy)
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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:53:30 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Further thought. Because i was able to prove my point that i used a devils advocate form of argument, instead of the strawmanning you determined i was utilizing, we now have to push that aside? It no longer fits... so, according to you, its no longer important. Nice form of debate here, dc.


No pushing anything aside because the question was not complete.(See above).

the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/21/2010 3:55:20 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Of course love exists. Its a chemical process that evolved to protect infants and ensure survival of the species. Nothing more, nothing less.


You know, you are just no fun at all.



Lacking imagination and being unfun isn't a crime

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 420
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