RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (Full Version)

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GotSteel -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 7:16:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Christians do not worship Abraham. Abraham disobeyed his pagan god when he circumcised not only Isaac as commanded, but also himself and other males in his tribe as not commanded. Abraham was the initiator of the shame and blasphemy of the Jews and responsible for the genocide on them during WWII.

WTF is this

I see you've met Rule, so you understand where he's coming from:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Unicorns are real.





GotSteel -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 7:59:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
I am honestly really surprised that GS has managed to stay so calm.  His entire thread has been completely taken over by discussions of how to define faith and how to define christianity and how to pin down what 'insert relevant word here' means.

I just don't see internet forums as something to get upset over. If it's not enjoyable or at least interesting, well it's not like I have to be here. I know some people think I get angry on a semi-regular basis around here but I'm often laughing when I write posts that get interpreted that way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
(apology to GS for getting caught up in the hijack)

No apology necessary I've done it as well, hell I think we've threadjacked together before, so I can't exactly complain too much. However, when I came back and found that I was about 10 pages behind in the thread and another 7 pages formed while I was trying to sort through (all of it completely off topic) I felt like I had to put my foot down or I wouldn't get to post in my thread again.

P.S. Guys, everyone doesn't need to use small talk to get the thread to 40 pages, there is a rather neglected topic that could finally get discussed.......guys?




juliaoceania -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:02:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

Shit...

ETA, I win!


This means the thread must go 10 more pages....

The only question left is, do you have faith in hot dog meat?




xssve -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:12:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania



It is reductionist way of approaching the debate, especially when there are Christians on this thread telling you that you are reducing their faith.....


No. They are reducing their faith by not being able to defend it.


This is so simple. You cannot explain why your father's hand felt real to you. It was not the same as picking up a jar of Mayonnaise.

It might be real to you. It obviously made such an impact that it left an impression upon you.

But you don't equate the rationalization for that experienced the same way that you do the reality of the jar of mayonnaise.

Where you can take a picture and throw around a delicious jar of mayo you are unable to do that with the experience you had with your father.

If I doubt you have a delicious jar of mayo you can show it to me. If I doubt your story about the visit from your father I am left with only your words and your experience.

Science has explained how many who believe that they have been whisked away into alien aircrafts have experienced nothing more than false memories.

I'm not saying that is the case here at all.

But it is different. I believe you use a different set of rules and justifications to explain the existence of your fathers visit than you do for the existence of the jar of delicious mayonnaise.

In other words....You are now part of my poly family. You ask me if we need some mayo. I say, "No. There is a jar in the fridge."

You open the fridge door and there is no mayonnaise. You are a little disappointed because you really have a hankerin' for a B.L.T.

So you reply, "Oh, Domidearest, there is no mayo in the fridge. I am going to the store to pick some up."

I respond, "pookums, don't bother. It is there it's just that you are unable to see it."


Now here is the question....You really want a B.L.T and quite frankly, a B.L. fuckin' T ain't a B.L. fuckin' T without some delicious mayo on board. Otherwise it's just a bacon lettuce and tomato sammich.


Do you buy the mayonnaise or do you believe me that it is there and you just can't see it?
That is empiricism, and it's reductionist by nature.




xssve -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:13:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
A Christian (pronounced /ˈkrɪstʃən/ ( listen)) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion

Christians do not worship Abraham. Abraham disobeyed his pagan god when he circumcised not only Isaac as commanded, but also himself and other males in his tribe as not commanded. Abraham was the initiator of the shame and blasphemy of the Jews and responsible for the genocide on them during WWII.
Allrighty then.




GotSteel -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:26:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
And OP, No its not OK to strawman an atheist, but this is why it happens.  People have a need to reframe things to their own worldview in order to discuss them; If one has a worldview in which faith is a necessity they will not reframe the faithless accurately.

I found this idea intriguing, maybe we as a group could spend a little time talking about it. I guess it makes sense to me that if someone didn't have a good understanding of formal logic and deductive reasoning that a position that was heavily reliant on those would get misinterpreted.




domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:27:48 PM)

If I were Jesus I would have really liked Mayo. The only problem is you would have to make it and eat it on the spot. You wait a few hours to eat your gefilte fish sandwich and you are visiting your pa in nothing flat.

I would have also banged a lot of chicks.




marie2 -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:29:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
I am honestly really surprised that GS has managed to stay so calm.  His entire thread has been completely taken over by discussions of how to define faith and how to define christianity and how to pin down what 'insert relevant word here' means.

I just don't see internet forums as something to get upset over. If it's not enjoyable or at least interesting, well it's not like I have to be here. I know some people think I get angry on a semi-regular basis around here but I'm often laughing when I write posts that get interpreted that way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
(apology to GS for getting caught up in the hijack)

No apology necessary I've done it as well, hell I think we've threadjacked together before, so I can't exactly complain too much. However, when I came back and found that I was about 10 pages behind in the thread and another 7 pages formed while I was trying to sort through (all of it completely off topic) I felt like I had to put my foot down or I wouldn't get to post in my thread again.

P.S. Guys, everyone doesn't need to use small talk to get the thread to 40 pages, there is a rather neglected topic that could finally get discussed.......guys?


You're a rather good-natured guy, I gotta say.

The topic, even though it's been side tracked, did get addressed by quite a few posters, Steel.

My analysis here, is that people have ideas in their heads of what A or B is. And so assumptions get made about where someone is coming from..sometimes those assumptions are correct, other times they are not.

It was done to me too on Julia's original thread, though I can't say it was a strawman situation. But once I said something to the effect that I believe our energy has to get processed into something and we don't just "stop" when we die, it was assumed by one of the posters that I must believe in the afterlife, so to speak, therefore I must be a theist.

Not only was a mistaken assumption made, but I was then mocked for what this poster believed I was.

Others here, on both sides, if you've read it all, have been pretty much called names, called stupid for believing in God, and told their beliefs were "utter nonsense" and "trash".

I'm just trying to point out that a bunch of other people here, including myself have also been on the recieving end of not only being misunderstood, but being out and out insulted....And I too told one poster that his argument was horse shit. Look we all do it, or recieve it at one time or another. It's not just you, don't take it personally. This is what happens when people who feel strongly about their beliefs get together and argue.

So...ya want a roller dog?




domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:30:25 PM)

Sorry, it appears you are trying to be serious.




brainiacsub -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:34:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
And OP, No its not OK to strawman an atheist, but this is why it happens.  People have a need to reframe things to their own worldview in order to discuss them; If one has a worldview in which faith is a necessity they will not reframe the faithless accurately.

I found this idea intriguing, maybe we as a group could spend a little time talking about it. I guess it makes sense to me that if someone didn't have a good understanding of formal logic and deductive reasoning that a position that was heavily reliant on those would get misinterpreted.


GS, are you kidding me? Did you just realize this? In the years that I have been reading and posting here, this has always been the case. The divide between the faithful and the faithless can often be drawn with the pen of understanding of science and/or philosophy.




domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:36:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

So...ya want a roller dog?


That was several minutes of my life I will never get back....Perhaps when you die your energy goes into power the roller dog thingamajig.

I believe my energy will be utilized to propel one of those silly fans people wear on the bill of their ballcaps.


I also think for some reason that there will be a smell that will accompany your energy force. Not a pleasant smell either. Socks perhaps, wet dirty socks. Though I have no proof, I believe this to be the case.




Plasticine -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:38:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
And OP, No its not OK to strawman an atheist, but this is why it happens.  People have a need to reframe things to their own worldview in order to discuss them; If one has a worldview in which faith is a necessity they will not reframe the faithless accurately.

I found this idea intriguing, maybe we as a group could spend a little time talking about it. I guess it makes sense to me that if someone didn't have a good understanding of formal logic and deductive reasoning that a position that was heavily reliant on those would get misinterpreted.



Thank You GS. I thought I might be the only one. :)




marie2 -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:41:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
And OP, No its not OK to strawman an atheist, but this is why it happens.  People have a need to reframe things to their own worldview in order to discuss them; If one has a worldview in which faith is a necessity they will not reframe the faithless accurately.

I found this idea intriguing, maybe we as a group could spend a little time talking about it. I guess it makes sense to me that if someone didn't have a good understanding of formal logic and deductive reasoning that a position that was heavily reliant on those would get misinterpreted.



Thank You GS. I thought I might be the only one. :)




Careful GS. This guy is hitting on you.




xssve -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:42:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
And OP, No its not OK to strawman an atheist, but this is why it happens.  People have a need to reframe things to their own worldview in order to discuss them; If one has a worldview in which faith is a necessity they will not reframe the faithless accurately.

I found this idea intriguing, maybe we as a group could spend a little time talking about it. I guess it makes sense to me that if someone didn't have a good understanding of formal logic and deductive reasoning that a position that was heavily reliant on those would get misinterpreted.

See anosognosia.




Plasticine -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:47:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2
Careful GS. This guy is hitting on you.


You're just jealous.




marie2 -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 8:50:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2
Careful GS. This guy is hitting on you.


You're just jealous.




Nah. Dummyguy has my heart.




domiguy -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:02:37 PM)

I loves my Marie...We sit under the stars and dine on Cheetos and roller dogs while I use her left tit as a blanket.




marie2 -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:13:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I loves my Marie...We sit under the stars and dine on Cheetos and roller dogs while I use her left tit as a blanket.



This is what I love so much about our relationship. Our mutual needs are being met. You use my left tit as a blanket, and I get to use your dick as a tooth pick.




GotSteel -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:19:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
That was several minutes of my life I will never get back....Perhaps when you die your energy goes into power the roller dog thingamajig.

Domi, maybe you can tell me. When I turn my computer off where will the energy go?




juliaoceania -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/22/2010 9:21:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
That was several minutes of my life I will never get back....Perhaps when you die your energy goes into power the roller dog thingamajig.

Domi, maybe you can tell me. When I turn my computer off where will the energy go?



I hate to get all serious on your ass at this point, but everything is energy, everything.....




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