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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 7:16:28 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Christians do not worship Abraham. Abraham disobeyed his pagan god when he circumcised not only Isaac as commanded, but also himself and other males in his tribe as not commanded. Abraham was the initiator of the shame and blasphemy of the Jews and responsible for the genocide on them during WWII.

WTF is this

I see you've met Rule, so you understand where he's coming from:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Unicorns are real.


(in reply to Plasticine)
Profile   Post #: 741
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 7:59:39 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
I am honestly really surprised that GS has managed to stay so calm.  His entire thread has been completely taken over by discussions of how to define faith and how to define christianity and how to pin down what 'insert relevant word here' means.

I just don't see internet forums as something to get upset over. If it's not enjoyable or at least interesting, well it's not like I have to be here. I know some people think I get angry on a semi-regular basis around here but I'm often laughing when I write posts that get interpreted that way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
(apology to GS for getting caught up in the hijack)

No apology necessary I've done it as well, hell I think we've threadjacked together before, so I can't exactly complain too much. However, when I came back and found that I was about 10 pages behind in the thread and another 7 pages formed while I was trying to sort through (all of it completely off topic) I felt like I had to put my foot down or I wouldn't get to post in my thread again.

P.S. Guys, everyone doesn't need to use small talk to get the thread to 40 pages, there is a rather neglected topic that could finally get discussed.......guys?

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 742
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:02:28 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

Shit...

ETA, I win!


This means the thread must go 10 more pages....

The only question left is, do you have faith in hot dog meat?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 743
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:12:22 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania



It is reductionist way of approaching the debate, especially when there are Christians on this thread telling you that you are reducing their faith.....


No. They are reducing their faith by not being able to defend it.


This is so simple. You cannot explain why your father's hand felt real to you. It was not the same as picking up a jar of Mayonnaise.

It might be real to you. It obviously made such an impact that it left an impression upon you.

But you don't equate the rationalization for that experienced the same way that you do the reality of the jar of mayonnaise.

Where you can take a picture and throw around a delicious jar of mayo you are unable to do that with the experience you had with your father.

If I doubt you have a delicious jar of mayo you can show it to me. If I doubt your story about the visit from your father I am left with only your words and your experience.

Science has explained how many who believe that they have been whisked away into alien aircrafts have experienced nothing more than false memories.

I'm not saying that is the case here at all.

But it is different. I believe you use a different set of rules and justifications to explain the existence of your fathers visit than you do for the existence of the jar of delicious mayonnaise.

In other words....You are now part of my poly family. You ask me if we need some mayo. I say, "No. There is a jar in the fridge."

You open the fridge door and there is no mayonnaise. You are a little disappointed because you really have a hankerin' for a B.L.T.

So you reply, "Oh, Domidearest, there is no mayo in the fridge. I am going to the store to pick some up."

I respond, "pookums, don't bother. It is there it's just that you are unable to see it."


Now here is the question....You really want a B.L.T and quite frankly, a B.L. fuckin' T ain't a B.L. fuckin' T without some delicious mayo on board. Otherwise it's just a bacon lettuce and tomato sammich.


Do you buy the mayonnaise or do you believe me that it is there and you just can't see it?
That is empiricism, and it's reductionist by nature.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 744
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:13:33 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
A Christian (pronounced /ˈkrɪstʃən/ ( listen)) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion

Christians do not worship Abraham. Abraham disobeyed his pagan god when he circumcised not only Isaac as commanded, but also himself and other males in his tribe as not commanded. Abraham was the initiator of the shame and blasphemy of the Jews and responsible for the genocide on them during WWII.
Allrighty then.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 745
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:26:57 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
And OP, No its not OK to strawman an atheist, but this is why it happens.  People have a need to reframe things to their own worldview in order to discuss them; If one has a worldview in which faith is a necessity they will not reframe the faithless accurately.

I found this idea intriguing, maybe we as a group could spend a little time talking about it. I guess it makes sense to me that if someone didn't have a good understanding of formal logic and deductive reasoning that a position that was heavily reliant on those would get misinterpreted.

(in reply to Plasticine)
Profile   Post #: 746
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:27:48 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		If I were Jesus I would have really liked Mayo. The only problem is you would have to make it and eat it on the spot. You wait a few hours to eat your gefilte fish sandwich and you are visiting your pa in nothing flat.

I would have also banged a lot of chicks.

_____________________________



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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:29:55 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
I am honestly really surprised that GS has managed to stay so calm.  His entire thread has been completely taken over by discussions of how to define faith and how to define christianity and how to pin down what 'insert relevant word here' means.

I just don't see internet forums as something to get upset over. If it's not enjoyable or at least interesting, well it's not like I have to be here. I know some people think I get angry on a semi-regular basis around here but I'm often laughing when I write posts that get interpreted that way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
(apology to GS for getting caught up in the hijack)

No apology necessary I've done it as well, hell I think we've threadjacked together before, so I can't exactly complain too much. However, when I came back and found that I was about 10 pages behind in the thread and another 7 pages formed while I was trying to sort through (all of it completely off topic) I felt like I had to put my foot down or I wouldn't get to post in my thread again.

P.S. Guys, everyone doesn't need to use small talk to get the thread to 40 pages, there is a rather neglected topic that could finally get discussed.......guys?


You're a rather good-natured guy, I gotta say.

The topic, even though it's been side tracked, did get addressed by quite a few posters, Steel.

My analysis here, is that people have ideas in their heads of what A or B is. And so assumptions get made about where someone is coming from..sometimes those assumptions are correct, other times they are not.

It was done to me too on Julia's original thread, though I can't say it was a strawman situation. But once I said something to the effect that I believe our energy has to get processed into something and we don't just "stop" when we die, it was assumed by one of the posters that I must believe in the afterlife, so to speak, therefore I must be a theist.

Not only was a mistaken assumption made, but I was then mocked for what this poster believed I was.

Others here, on both sides, if you've read it all, have been pretty much called names, called stupid for believing in God, and told their beliefs were "utter nonsense" and "trash".

I'm just trying to point out that a bunch of other people here, including myself have also been on the recieving end of not only being misunderstood, but being out and out insulted....And I too told one poster that his argument was horse shit. Look we all do it, or recieve it at one time or another. It's not just you, don't take it personally. This is what happens when people who feel strongly about their beliefs get together and argue.

So...ya want a roller dog?

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 748
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:30:25 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Sorry, it appears you are trying to be serious.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 749
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:34:17 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
And OP, No its not OK to strawman an atheist, but this is why it happens.  People have a need to reframe things to their own worldview in order to discuss them; If one has a worldview in which faith is a necessity they will not reframe the faithless accurately.

I found this idea intriguing, maybe we as a group could spend a little time talking about it. I guess it makes sense to me that if someone didn't have a good understanding of formal logic and deductive reasoning that a position that was heavily reliant on those would get misinterpreted.


GS, are you kidding me? Did you just realize this? In the years that I have been reading and posting here, this has always been the case. The divide between the faithful and the faithless can often be drawn with the pen of understanding of science and/or philosophy.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 750
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:36:00 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

So...ya want a roller dog?


That was several minutes of my life I will never get back....Perhaps when you die your energy goes into power the roller dog thingamajig.

I believe my energy will be utilized to propel one of those silly fans people wear on the bill of their ballcaps.


I also think for some reason that there will be a smell that will accompany your energy force. Not a pleasant smell either. Socks perhaps, wet dirty socks. Though I have no proof, I believe this to be the case.

_____________________________



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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:38:32 PM   
Plasticine


Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
And OP, No its not OK to strawman an atheist, but this is why it happens.  People have a need to reframe things to their own worldview in order to discuss them; If one has a worldview in which faith is a necessity they will not reframe the faithless accurately.

I found this idea intriguing, maybe we as a group could spend a little time talking about it. I guess it makes sense to me that if someone didn't have a good understanding of formal logic and deductive reasoning that a position that was heavily reliant on those would get misinterpreted.



Thank You GS. I thought I might be the only one. :)

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 752
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:41:25 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
And OP, No its not OK to strawman an atheist, but this is why it happens.  People have a need to reframe things to their own worldview in order to discuss them; If one has a worldview in which faith is a necessity they will not reframe the faithless accurately.

I found this idea intriguing, maybe we as a group could spend a little time talking about it. I guess it makes sense to me that if someone didn't have a good understanding of formal logic and deductive reasoning that a position that was heavily reliant on those would get misinterpreted.



Thank You GS. I thought I might be the only one. :)




Careful GS. This guy is hitting on you.

(in reply to Plasticine)
Profile   Post #: 753
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:42:56 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
And OP, No its not OK to strawman an atheist, but this is why it happens.  People have a need to reframe things to their own worldview in order to discuss them; If one has a worldview in which faith is a necessity they will not reframe the faithless accurately.

I found this idea intriguing, maybe we as a group could spend a little time talking about it. I guess it makes sense to me that if someone didn't have a good understanding of formal logic and deductive reasoning that a position that was heavily reliant on those would get misinterpreted.

See anosognosia.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 754
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:47:36 PM   
Plasticine


Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2
Careful GS. This guy is hitting on you.


You're just jealous.

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 755
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 8:50:13 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2
Careful GS. This guy is hitting on you.


You're just jealous.




Nah. Dummyguy has my heart.

(in reply to Plasticine)
Profile   Post #: 756
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 9:02:37 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I loves my Marie...We sit under the stars and dine on Cheetos and roller dogs while I use her left tit as a blanket.

_____________________________



(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 757
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 9:13:22 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I loves my Marie...We sit under the stars and dine on Cheetos and roller dogs while I use her left tit as a blanket.



This is what I love so much about our relationship. Our mutual needs are being met. You use my left tit as a blanket, and I get to use your dick as a tooth pick.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 758
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 9:19:21 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
That was several minutes of my life I will never get back....Perhaps when you die your energy goes into power the roller dog thingamajig.

Domi, maybe you can tell me. When I turn my computer off where will the energy go?

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 759
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 9:21:10 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
That was several minutes of my life I will never get back....Perhaps when you die your energy goes into power the roller dog thingamajig.

Domi, maybe you can tell me. When I turn my computer off where will the energy go?



I hate to get all serious on your ass at this point, but everything is energy, everything.....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 760
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