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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 11:58:21 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Christianity (from the Greek word Xριστός, Khristos, "Christ", literally "anointed one") is a monotheistic religion[1] based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as presented in the New Testament.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

Christianity definition Chris·ti·an·ity (kris′c̸hē an′ə tē, -tē an′-)

noun

1.Christians collectively
2.the Christian religion, based upon belief in Jesus as the Christ and upon his teachings
3.a particular Christian religious system
4.the state of being a Christian

http://www.yourdictionary.com/Christianity?print

Chris·ti·an·i·ty (krsch-n-t, krst-)
n.
1. The Christian religion, founded on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. Christians as a group; Christendom.
3. The state or fact of being a Christian.
4. pl. Chris·ti·an·i·ties A particular form or sect of the Christian religion: the Christianities of antiquity.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Christianity

How many more definitions do you need?



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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 11:59:29 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

No one cares if you are impressed. You do realize its not all about you, dont you? I mean, honestly, you do realize that.


You should. It would improve your skills if you would actually stop typing and read what people are suggesting you do.


But no, it is just one more nonsensical post after another.

Here it is @ 1:57 pm on a tuesday afternoon. I should be at work but my schedule got screwed around. I have no idea who is on the other side of the keyboard....

Maybe they are sane, maybe they are completely dipped in bat shit? Who knows?

I try to give them the benefit of the doubt. Me thinks you have spent way too much time spelunking.

Just an overall feeling I get from your posts.

_____________________________



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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:00:12 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The sadists around here are slipping lately.

~shrugs

I am convinced now that I am indeed a masochist, because I have been enjoying this no matter how much it hurts.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:01:03 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl



And the definition of Christianity is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus.

No. Look it up.


I hate defending tazzy... but I have to because she is right about this

A Christian (pronounced /ˈkrɪstʃən/ ( listen)) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, who Christians believe is the Messiah (the Christ in Greek-derived terminology) prophesied in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible, and the son of God.[1][2] Most Christians believe in the doctrine of the Trinity ("tri-unity"), a description of God as Father, as Son, and as Holy Spirit.
The term "Christian" is also used adjectivally to describe anything associated with Christianity, or in a proverbial sense "all that is noble, and good, and Christ-like."[3]


A wide range of beliefs and practices is found across the world among those who call themselves Christian. Philosopher Michael Martin, in his book The Case Against Christianity, evaluated three historical Christian creeds to establish a set of basic assumptions which include belief in theism, the historicity of Jesus, the Incarnation, salvation through faith in Jesus, and Jesus as an ethical role model.[11] Included in his analysis were the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/22/2010 12:02:05 PM >

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:10:54 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I personally have no dog in this hunt. I could care less if Christianity becomes diluted by all the competing definitions and doctrines and scattered to the four corners of the earth. But for the purpose of these kinds of discussions, it helps to have a common understanding of the faith, one that 90% of the people reading this can agree on. People arguing fringe definitions aren't seeking clarity - the argument itself becomes the payoff. I have no interest in going there.


I am one of the people reading this.. and I have a big issue with you reducing other people's belief systems so that you can make your arguments easier...

That is the entire point of this entire thread, it is a strawman to paint those with theism in boxes... and here you are doing it for convenience sake, as if people aren't smart enough to know that there are different ways of being Christian

julia, I am a pragmatist. I also have formal education in Comparative Theology (it was my minor). For the purpose of these discussions, the pragmatic thing to do is go with the 90 - 10 rule. 90% of the Christians on the planet fit the definition of Christian as determined by the Nicene Creed. If you want to debate what the other 10% believe, feel free but I am not joining you. That is not a strawman.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:12:22 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I personally have no dog in this hunt. I could care less if Christianity becomes diluted by all the competing definitions and doctrines and scattered to the four corners of the earth. But for the purpose of these kinds of discussions, it helps to have a common understanding of the faith, one that 90% of the people reading this can agree on. People arguing fringe definitions aren't seeking clarity - the argument itself becomes the payoff. I have no interest in going there.


I am one of the people reading this.. and I have a big issue with you reducing other people's belief systems so that you can make your arguments easier...

That is the entire point of this entire thread, it is a strawman to paint those with theism in boxes... and here you are doing it for convenience sake, as if people aren't smart enough to know that there are different ways of being Christian

julia, I am a pragmatist. I also have formal education in Comparative Theology (it was my minor). For the purpose of these discussions, the pragmatic thing to do is go with the 90 - 10 rule. 90% of the Christians on the planet fit the definition of Christian as determined by the Nicene Creed. If you want to debate what the other 10% believe, feel free but I am not joining you. That is not a strawman.


It is reductionist way of approaching the debate, especially when there are Christians on this thread telling you that you are reducing their faith.....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:13:36 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thats not what i asked you. I asked you pure and simple... do you not have faith?

I don't expect that this is pure and simple.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, concept or thing.[1][2] The English word is thought to date from 1200–50, from the Latin fidem or fidēs, meaning "trust", derived from the verb fīdere, "to trust".[1]

Cite your source? Is this your source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith  If so your source disagrees with you that this is pure and simple: "It has been suggested that this article be split into articles entitled Faith (religion) and Trust (social sciences), accessible from a disambiguation page."



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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:19:40 PM   
Plasticine


Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
It is reductionist way of approaching the debate, especially when there are Christians on this thread telling you that you are reducing their faith.....


I'm sorry but you are just nitpicking.  I'm quite sensitive about marginalized religions, what being an atheist and all.  In what way does this further a discussion about anything other than the reductionism of Christianity?

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:22:46 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		As far as defining words, and going on for pages and pages and pages with this trying to get someone to admit to "faith"


There is a difference between having faith in things that you cannot logically prove or disprove, and having faith in something that you have proven to yourself with deductive or inductive reasoning that you should have faith in it...

Example: Most of the time when I get in car, it works and I do not have an accident....


Example: The sun rose today and it should rise tomorrow

Now this sort of reasoning can be extremely flawed, but it is the common kind of reasoning that helps us traverse our life on a day to day basis because we do not have time to go through and test all of our assumptions with the scientific method



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:24:00 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Here's a definition for you: don't nobody know a gotdamn thing - those who think they do, call it faith.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:24:20 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
theists state there is no evolution.

This isn't true in general. I know plenty of theists who believe in evolution, they just think that the wheel of evolution was started rolling by god.

I agree, after several attempts to explain a straw man I posted an example to help people understand and explained that I'd done so.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:25:18 PM   
Plasticine


Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline 		No if you have "proven" it with reasoning then you don't need faith because it is a true statement.  There is no trust required to rely on facts.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:29:44 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
It is reductionist way of approaching the debate, especially when there are Christians on this thread telling you that you are reducing their faith.....


I'm sorry but you are just nitpicking.  I'm quite sensitive about marginalized religions, what being an atheist and all.  In what way does this further a discussion about anything other than the reductionism of Christianity?



By assuming that all Christians believe that Jesus is divine, for example, those that may not believe that way are painted as having a religious view that they do not hold...

For several years I explored different forms of Christianity in an attempt to reconcile my rearing with what I know about the world.... a belief in Jesus fell along the wayside... along the way I met many Christians that do not go to church, question orthodoxy, and consider themselves believers.... I think there might be many people on this site like that, and we don't know how many they are so we shouldn't negate them

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:34:57 PM   
Plasticine


Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline 		I'm sorry if I find it hard to muster sympathy for fringe christianity while the mainstream is so up in my face everyday.   Some of the fringes are more abominable than most cults in my opinion.  Lets just stop the quiverfulls right now shall we?

You are steering this off somewhere that is of no importance to me at all.  Good Luck.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:37:11 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania



It is reductionist way of approaching the debate, especially when there are Christians on this thread telling you that you are reducing their faith.....


No. They are reducing their faith by not being able to defend it.


This is so simple. You cannot explain why your father's hand felt real to you. It was not the same as picking up a jar of Mayonnaise.

It might be real to you. It obviously made such an impact that it left an impression upon you.

But you don't equate the rationalization for that experienced the same way that you do the reality of the jar of mayonnaise.

Where you can take a picture and throw around a delicious jar of mayo you are unable to do that with the experience you had with your father.

If I doubt you have a delicious jar of mayo you can show it to me. If I doubt your story about the visit from your father I am left with only your words and your experience.

Science has explained how many who believe that they have been whisked away into alien aircrafts have experienced nothing more than false memories.

I'm not saying that is the case here at all.

But it is different. I believe you use a different set of rules and justifications to explain the existence of your fathers visit than you do for the existence of the jar of delicious mayonnaise.

In other words....You are now part of my poly family. You ask me if we need some mayo. I say, "No. There is a jar in the fridge."

You open the fridge door and there is no mayonnaise. You are a little disappointed because you really have a hankerin' for a B.L.T.

So you reply, "Oh, Domidearest, there is no mayo in the fridge. I am going to the store to pick some up."

I respond, "pookums, don't bother. It is there it's just that you are unable to see it."


Now here is the question....You really want a B.L.T and quite frankly, a B.L. fuckin' T ain't a B.L. fuckin' T without some delicious mayo on board. Otherwise it's just a bacon lettuce and tomato sammich.


Do you buy the mayonnaise or do you believe me that it is there and you just can't see it?

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:39:19 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

I'm sorry if I find it hard to muster sympathy for fringe christianity while the mainstream is so up in my face everyday.   Some of the fringes are more abominable than most cults in my opinion.  Lets just stop the quiverfulls right now shall we?

You are steering this off somewhere that is of no importance to me at all.  Good Luck.



Then why are you asking me questions?


I never posted to you...shrugs

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:40:18 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		FR...............


Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine
meltin' in a pot of thieves
wild card up my sleeve
thick heart of stone
my sins my own
they belong to me, me

people say "beware!"
but I don't care
the words are just
rules and regulations to me, me


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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:40:57 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
A Christian (pronounced /ˈkrɪstʃən/ ( listen)) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion

Christians do not worship Abraham. Abraham disobeyed his pagan god when he circumcised not only Isaac as commanded, but also himself and other males in his tribe as not commanded. Abraham was the initiator of the shame and blasphemy of the Jews and responsible for the genocide on them during WWII.

< Message edited by Rule -- 6/22/2010 12:41:51 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 718
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:41:40 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Do you buy the mayonnaise or do you believe me that it is there and you just can't see it?


It depends, how many margaritas have we drank?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 719
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 12:45:08 PM   
Plasticine


Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
A Christian (pronounced /ˈkrɪstʃən/ ( listen)) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion

Christians do not worship Abraham. Abraham disobeyed his pagan god when he circumcised not only Isaac as commanded, but also himself and other males in his tribe as not commanded. Abraham was the initiator of the shame and blasphemy of the Jews and responsible for the genocide on them during WWII.


WTF is this

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Profile   Post #: 720
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