RE: Inaccurate Info (Full Version)

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sirsholly -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:02:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Okay to clarify, Holly, you are a nurse right -- not a mental health professional?
i have a nsg degree and duel masters in psych.
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So what's to say that what others are speaking about isn't common sense?   I mean the medical field and i presume the mental health field is full of all types of contradicting information.
Well damn...perhaps because humans as a whole are walking contradictions?
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And we all know common sense is a very arbitrary word.  Also, not all mental health professionals use common sense just like the people discussing it don't always.  So sorry i don't agree with your general statement that the mental health professionals are all using common sense
When did i say that? What i said was mental health professionals on the boards use common sense...at least those i am aware of.
quote:


No, i wasn't asking if there were medical professionals seeking mental health help -- what that sentence means is --- what about the people who are "part of the field" simply by being a patient who has studied, researched, etc about their particular illness.
   Ahh...i refer to those individuals as educated and informed patients and wish to holy hell there were more of them.
quote:

There are people who speak about their illnesses who have better information than doctors etc because of their research etc about their illness.
Well damn...it is their illness and good for them for taking educated ownership of it.
Say that PosterX is talking about his mental illness. What the heck do you think i am going to do...jump in and add to it? What the hell do i know about PosterX's diagnosis, since a mental diagnosis is as unique as the owner.
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Holly i am not asking where to go nor am i making a complaint, i am asking questions of the people who say they are mental health professionals.  They should know this information, yes?  IF unlicensed therapists are able to be tracked as licensed ones are etc.    

***** Quote by Holly *****
I am not permitted by the state in which i practice to make a diagnosis. To do so would put my license on the line. I also do not hand out advice on a random basis for the same reason, and i am not alone.
***************

YES.  That is a very important concept that i think many times is a little less stringent in the mental health professionals.  I cannot decipher if unlicensed therapists are allowed to diagnosis.
Ok...last time...two masters degrees and an associates in nursing and i am not permitted to diagnose in this state. Now...i will not write it in stone, but it is a safe bet that after 12 yrs in school to get those licenses, an unlicensed therapist cannot legally make a dx in this state.





sirsholly -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:06:20 AM)

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Exactly, so how can someone say information is inaccurate when based on the individuals situation or information, it may not be.
who said what was inaccurate?

Ferpetessake...get yer quote hicky fixed!!!



sunshinemiss -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:14:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I know nothing of the mental health profession but I would think it takes more than a few lines of text in a chat room to determine the need for intervention in another’s life.

In fact I can see where this over the internet psychoanalyzing could be harmful to fragile minds.

Too often people think they have the right to determine who is mentally ill and who needs professional help. There are many functioning, happy, healthy, people with mental illnesses and it is none of my business if the get treatment or not.

I am all for a well worded private message of concern but that is as far as it should go in this public arena.

Please understand this is not a personal attack I understand and respect your concern for your fellow man... It is just an opinion.

Butch


NO, no, that's cool. I often see people who are accountants trying to clarify things and computer people and such. I suppose where health issues are concerned, that's a different ball of wax. What I generally see people doing who are in medical fields is "get to a professional!!!" in a different way than folks who are dealing with my furnace doesn't work. Although, come to think of it, in that kind of instance people say "call a professional!"

Totally agree that it takes more than a few lines of chat... yup... that's why I said "Patterns" become obvious. I mean, heck everybody knows how different people are generally going to respond - you see people mention it all the time. That's why the *hide* button was invented so we can avoid those patterns! Thanks for your input.

Best,
sunshine



Syrox -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:14:38 AM)

Why is everyone so intent on labeling and fixing everyone on-line?

I realise it is the natural instinct to want to help and to try to help, but really, do we need to be assessing everyone who is a little bit odd?  Doesn't that strike anyone else as being VERY judgemental?

And I'm not entirely sure what's going on with this thread.  It seems to be getting bogged down in semantics which is a shame.

And as for correcting information. Seems everybody has a different version of 'correct' on this board. but that's a GOOD thing.  if everyone saw them more as different viewpoints' rather than a blatant calling out then maybe what we would end up with is threads full of links to good information instead of arguing over silly things.

just my $0.02



BonesFromAsh -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:24:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Syrox

And I'm not entirely sure what's going on with this thread.  It seems to be getting bogged down in semantics which is a shame.



Quoted for accuracy



juliaoceania -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:24:51 AM)

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Where is the line for you as far as clearing up inaccurate information? Is there a line?


If I see information that could cause people injury, I do post links or my personal experiences...There is no line that is set for me to feel I should intervene... On these boards there is usually someone who will post the type of advice I would give before I even get there. Lots of wise people here (including yourself, sunshinemiss) that usually override the ignorant...

quote:

Am I the only one who thinks about this stuff?


I spend a good deal of my time thinking about accurate vs inaccurate information... for myself. In other words I gauge the information from these interwebs carefully before I use that information for anything more important than a recipe. In the end we are all responsible for our actions and if we take forum advice and it does not work out well, we can't blame the person who posted that advice, we have to blame ourselves for not being wise enough to double check it... and no, I do not feel this overwhelming sense of obligation to protect people from themselves, life can be overwhelming enough




sunshinemiss -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:28:07 AM)

quote:

I do not feel this overwhelming sense of obligation to protect people from themselves, life can be overwhelming enough



Beautiful!
I'm learning that. Bop me on the head when I forget this, will you?
*smooch,
sunshine



juliaoceania -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:36:19 AM)

quote:

NO, no, that's cool. I often see people who are accountants trying to clarify things and computer people and such. I suppose where health issues are concerned, that's a different ball of wax. What I generally see people doing who are in medical fields is "get to a professional!!!" in a different way than folks who are dealing with my furnace doesn't work. Although, come to think of it, in that kind of instance people say "call a professional!"

Totally agree that it takes more than a few lines of chat... yup... that's why I said "Patterns" become obvious. I mean, heck everybody knows how different people are generally going to respond - you see people mention it all the time. That's why the *hide* button was invented so we can avoid those patterns! Thanks for your input.

Best,
sunshine


You are aware of a study that stated online communication between people on internet message boards is rife with symptoms of mental illness...the reason why is that human beings have a hard time communicating and gaining meaning from lines of text without facial expression, body language, and gestures to tell us what the intent of the comments really are...

I have a hard time with diagnosing anyone over the internet... Even if a mental health professional was extremely good at their job they should avoid diagnosing people over the internet, because many tools that aid diagnosis are missing in this 2-d format.



sirsholly -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:40:32 AM)

quote:

I mean the medical field and i presume the mental health field is full of all types of contradicting information.


Sure is...to the layman and to a lesser degree to the mental health professional.
See...there are no absolutes. None. I get the impression you are looking for them. Stop it. You are wasting your time.

I am going to give a general example off of the top of my head on how a diagnosis works. PatientX is diagnosed as a sociopath. There are 10 criteria for that diagnosis and PatientX must fit 4 of the 10. He does, so he is considered a sociopath. However...he has other issues of A, B and C which feed into or off of his diagnosis. Does that make him a classic sociopath? No. Does it make him less of a sociopath? No.
It makes him a sociopath with issues of A, B and C but he will generally only be referred to as a sociopath.

On the same plane in the medical arena...you have PatientB. He is in a cardiac ward because he had a heart attack. He also has a hx of alcoholism and has liver failure as well as an inner ear imbalance.
Do the issues of liver failure/vertigo lessen his dx as a status-post heart attack? Of course not. Do they add to it..sure.

So...does PatientX with issues of A, B and C have the same diagnosis (label) as the next patient diagnosed as a sociopath? Yes. With a different treatment.

Does PatientB, heart attack, vertigo and liver failure, have the diagnosis (label) as the next patient who had a heart attack? Yes...with a different treatment.



barelynangel -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:44:48 AM)

Holly, I asked what you were not to irritate you or make you hostile -- i don't keep track of what everyone's license is which is why i asked sunshine initially (i.e., she has said a couple times she is a mental health professional and says stuff on here due to being same so i didn't know if i missed whether she was licensed or her education in same)  - its interesting to see where everyone is coming from in in their POV.  It does to me help to know when reading something they are determining is wrong.  All this time i thought you were a nurse -- like a LPN, i didn't know the rest and its good to know because it puts a different perspective on things when you speak of such.  THAT was why i asked.

as far as who said its inaccurate -- the OP stated this:

quote:

When there are threads with blatant inaccurate information being touted, I have often felt it was my duty as a mental health professional to clarify if no one else did.

***************************************

To me, if someone is going to demand someone take THEIR information as accurate over another, it does help to know what that "mental health professional" concept is and their level of expertise -- licensed or unlicensed, college educated with additional education in the specific field or not.  To me, offering contradictory information is good and well because it offers more information to everyone who can take or leave what they will and hopefully take what will benefit them  -- i agree with this -- but to state you are qualified to discount someone elses statements beause its your duty is where i have a hard time with.   Knowledge is one thing and offering it as a contradictory view point is good, but in a field such as mental health, is anything really accurate or inaccurate or is it simply case by case and the same concept of case law, you have case law that supports each argument.

To me a license indicated a specific concept of education, as you said you have twelve years of education and you are required to have continuing education.   That says a lot more and gives you more credibility because you have guidelines you work under and by doing so you know what YOUR line is -- i.e., diagnosing as well as dispensing advise randomly.  

Maybe i should clarify why i am very interested in this topic I have seen people indicate in discussions on this board that they have no problem diagnosing someone etc, even when they aren't licensed.  So to me, it shows they don't appreciate the boundries of their profession. To me it goes towards credibility.  From what you have stated Holly, i would find you credible because from what you have said you respect the boundries your profession has placed upon you even on someplace as anonymous as the internet. 

Off topic lol i don't know what is wrong with my puter, my mouse won't click on some links i.e., smileys, quotes and other font things :-(    and i am too cheap to take it in lol.

I am just discussing this Holly, because i am ignorant of the mental health profession and what each concept means in terms of licensed, unlicensed, no college, some college, advanced education such as Masters and PhDs.  etc.  So i am trying to explain it in terms i understand which may confuse others lol.


angel




sunshinemiss -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:48:37 AM)

quote:

I am going to give a general example off of the top of my head on how a diagnosis works. PatientX is diagnosed as a sociopath. There are 10 criteria for that diagnosis and PatientX must fit 4 of the 10. He does, so he is considered a sociopath. However...he has other issues of A, B and C which feed into or off of his diagnosis. Does that make him a classic sociopath? No. Does it make him less of a sociopath? No.
It makes him a sociopath with issues of A, B and C but he will generally only be referred to as a sociopath.

On the same plane in the medical arena...you have PatientB. He is in a cardiac ward because he had a heart attack. He also has a hx of alcoholism and has liver failure as well as an inner ear imbalance.
Do the issues of liver failure/vertigo lessen his dx as a status-post heart attack? Of course not. Do they add to it..sure.

So...does PatientX with issues of A, B and C have the same diagnosis (label) as the next patient diagnosed as a sociopath? Yes. With a different treatment.

Does PatientB, heart attack, vertigo and liver failure, have the diagnosis (label) as the next patient who had a heart attack? Yes...with a different treatment.


An excellent example, holly.

I was just today explaining Asperger's to someone and the differences in it and how the different types are treated differently.

Best,
sunshine



juliaoceania -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:49:35 AM)

quote:

Holly, I asked what you were not to irritate you or make you hostile -- i don't keep track of what everyone's license


If I were asked that question on this board I would not answer it, no one owes you that sort of information about their career life...

That is tantamount to asking a person what university they got their PhD and the year it was granted...It is info that could be used to track her, depending on the state she is licensed in....


I see the only reason to ask this as a way of negating sunshinemiss and her cred. We have no reason to disbelieve what she has said. She has never put forward her credentials in a way that would denote she wanted to treat an individual here...



barelynangel -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 8:51:30 AM)

grins, actually Holly, i am trying clarify if its anything like law or the medical fields there ARE no absolutes and therefore, no blatant inaccuracies.

i may be doing it badly, but if one is going to state because they are a mental health profession they have a duty to discount inaccuracies, then to me where they stand in that profession means a great deal and gives or takes credibility.   Others may disagree but from the way people bitch about the medical field (of which i believe mental health really is a part of) one would think where people stand in that profession would mean a lot based upon discussions, knowledge, experience, and stating or attempting to correct an inaccuracy and using your profession to be why what you say should mean more than another person whom you may or may not know is in the profession and where they stand.

I am NOT saying people shouldn't offer the information to contradict what they see as inaccuracies, but clarifying where you are coming from and not in vague terms helps because mental health professional to me can me a whole hell of a lot of things and it doesn't mean they are highly educated, licensed and accredited, continuing their education or in fact remotely practicing in the field. And a lay person could have some education under their belt, could very well be researching and studying and being further educated, going through the experience so their statements are single focused and accurate for them etc.  

angel



sirsholly -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 9:08:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Holly, I asked what you were not to irritate you or make you hostile
you didn't.


quote:


To me, if someone is going to demand someone take THEIR information as accurate over another, it does help to know what that "mental health professional" concept is and their level of expertise -- licensed or unlicensed, college educated with additional education in the specific field or not.  To me, offering contradictory information is good and well because it offers more information to everyone who can take or leave what they will and hopefully take what will benefit them  -- i agree with this -- but to state you are qualified to discount someone elses statements beause its your duty is where i have a hard time with.
I said in the beginning, and to Butch, that i will only say something as a professional if it is a misconception that is potentially harmful.
quote:


To me a license indicated a specific concept of education, as you said you have twelve years of education and you are required to have continuing education.   That says a lot more and gives you more credibility because you have guidelines you work under and by doing so you know what YOUR line is -- i.e., diagnosing as well as dispensing advise randomly.  
I do not distribute random advise as a professional.  I can't. Lookie:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Holly

You know as well as i do Sunny that the internet is a difficult medium for communication. Mental health professionals are visual a lot of the time (i am highly so) and i find it nearly impossible to have confidence in an assessment with no visualization.
I do give my opinion as Holly the sub, Holly the mom, Holly the wife...etc. Thats what the boards are for.
quote:


Maybe i should clarify why i am very interested in this topic I have seen people indicate in discussions on this board that they have no problem diagnosing someone etc, even when they aren't licensed.
So to me, it shows they don't appreciate the boundries of their profession. To me it goes towards credibility.

No..Angel..please understand i speak as a mental health professional in my state only. I do not know what happens in other states. The boundaries may differ greatly.

quote:

From what you have stated Holly, i would find you credible because from what you have said you respect the boundries your profession has placed upon you even on someplace as anonymous as the internet. 
I appreciate that, but i know my limitations, Angel. First..i have legal boundaries, but then i have personal limitations such as needing to see body language, hear the infliction of the voice, etc.

quote:


I am just discussing this Holly, because i am ignorant of the mental health profession and what each concept means in terms of licensed, unlicensed, no college, some college, advanced education such as Masters and PhDs.  etc.  So i am trying to explain it in terms i understand which may confuse others lol.
I so urge people to investigate the background of the professional they see. If the state allows a person with no formal education to slap a "therapist" label on their door...run.



xxblushesxx -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 9:13:10 AM)

There are many absolutes in the law. There are many absolutes in medicine. There are probably more issues which are not static, but to say there are no absolutes is incorrect. (I spent a few years studying and memorizing many "absolutes", and HM teaches and lectures on many as well.)



sunshinemiss -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 9:22:49 AM)



Now that we have had our morning napalm, shall we get back to the topic at hand?

That would be.... you know... do people in professions feel the need to clarify inaccurate information regarding their field when posting online?

Best,
sunshine



barelynangel -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 9:25:38 AM)

Holly, you have hit it what i have been trying to say and seemingly i am screwing it up -- for example, i have no issue with the OP stating information to contradict what she sees as an inaccuracy as the anonymous nickname she is, hell we all do, its called opinions.   There are no lines in opinions.  There are only disagreements to same. 

Sorry for the confusion.   I guess the LINE lol i was trying to see is what professionals really feel are their duty on an anonymous message board -- do they speak as professionals or do they speak as their nickname because of guidelines and standards they must maintain due to the very profession they are toting.

There is a reason -- to me -- that ethics are involved in these professions.  And i think that is a lot of what the OP posts is about but doesn't really clarify.   Holly, you have clearly stated what your ethics and standards are and i appreciate it, to me those mean everything in these professions because the patients HAVE to trust that you are meeting and maintaining same even when you aren't sitting in front of a patient.

angel



PeanutTigerinBox -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 9:29:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
The medical field, all aspects, is an inexact science. The mental health field is more so. You are not dealing with perfect textbook examples in the mental health field but rather with unique individuals who deserve to be dealt with on an individual basis.



Indeed, the medical model drove me up the wall often enough on placements with me working with the social model [8|]

In regards to license over here we are registered as Social Workers and can be struck off, however back home we aren't. A friend who studied that profession in my country said that there we would have a register, too but you don't have to register, where as in the UK you have to...

experiencing the difference from here to back home I have to say I don't miss such registers back home as quite frankly studying itself for that profession is on a fair bit higher level back home than the studies were over here and I prefer proper qualification in the field in the first place to not so good qualification followed by a register on top of it...

Whilst I don't know about your individual states over there I know one american social worker who told me that (in my profession) social workers don't have to work licensed in the US, they can also work without, but as I am not living in the US and as it ain't looking that way either at the moment, I don't look into that matter for the next while....so that's only what she told me as american social worker and I don't know how true that is.



juliaoceania -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 9:36:24 AM)

quote:

Asking it publically was simply because in reading her OP, i was curious and to me it would effect how i respond to her POV about her duty.  You don't have to like it juliaceania.


And I can voice my dislike of it.... public message boards are funny like that....



sunshinemiss -> RE: Inaccurate Info (6/20/2010 9:54:00 AM)

Hello all,

My question was where do you draw the line about information when you have experience, knowledge, etc. in a field. Holly has done an excellent job expressing her own professional line in the sand, and for that I am grateful. *You get a big gold star for staying on topic! [:D]

I'm not posting my private, educational, or professional information. As many know, there is more than one person who stalks me on this website. I must keep that in mind for safety's sake.

Thank you Julia for speaking so eloquently about privacy issues. If someone would like to approach me personally, I'd be happy to refer them in the areas that I have some knowledge in (including things like self-defense, dance workshops, self-help groups, teaching certifications, 12 step programs, etc.).

At the end of the day, we all can put out the information that we choose to share. It is of course up to the reader to do their own research and decide whether they want to believe a bunch of yahoos on a message board (including myself).

best,
sunshine



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